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Rosalie Slaughter Morton edit

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I've been adding bits and pieces to, and copyediting, this article for a long time now and I'm looking for some more substantive input on how far the article is from a viable Featured Article Nomination. Is it too short? How is the prose and page structure? Does it feel like any topics aren't given appropriate weight? Any other feedback welcome.

Thanks, Sam Walton (talk) 10:59, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

STANDARD NOTE: I have added this PR to the Template:FAC peer review sidebar to get quicker and more responses. When this PR is closed, please remove it from the list. Also, consider adding the sidebar to your userpage to help others discover pre-FAC PRs, and please review other articles in that template. Thanks! Z1720 (talk) 00:30, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Samwalton9: It has been a month since this has been posted, and no one has commented yet. Are you still interested in receiving comments? If so, I recommend posting on the Wikiprojects attached to this article, asking for reviews. If not, can you close this PR? Thanks, Z1720 (talk) 21:30, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Z1720 Thanks for the ping. I've posted notices to a couple of relevant WikiProjects. Sam Walton (talk) 10:55, 10 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Samwalton9: It has been another month, and still no comments. Are you still interested in receiving comments? If so, I suggest posting on the WP:WIG's talk page, as they are very experienced editors who might be interested in reviewing. Z1720 (talk) 02:17, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Good suggestion - I wasn't aware of that group, I've just posted :) Sam Walton (talk) 12:05, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Samwalton9 I just saw your post on WIG. I will look at her, but it will take me a day to wrap up some research I am in the middle of on another article. SusunW (talk) 15:17, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from SusunW edit

Lede:

  • Perhaps opt for more neutral language to avoid the woman (identity) vs. female (biology) debate:[1][2][3][4] Morton was one of the first female members of faculty at the Polyclinic Hospital of New York, later becoming its first female professor, and the first at the College of Physicians and Surgeons at Columbia University. … "Morton was one of the first women to join the faculty and to later become a professor at the Polyclinic Hospital of New York. In 1916, she was the first woman appointed as Attending Surgeon at the College of Physicians and Surgeons at Columbia University".
  • Consider giving context with dates. It is unremarkable now to have a woman hold most of these posts but in her era was an anomaly.
    •   Done Restructured the first paragraph and included an extra date or two. Sam Walton (talk) 23:05, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I personally never put citations in the lede. It is a summary of already cited information in the body.

Early life:

  • Consider renaming as "Early life and education"
  • Born in 1876 or October 16, 1872 (as stated in lede and infobox)? Source to which it is cited (Ogilvie, Harvey 2000, pp 918-919) says 1876, as does NLM source. The News & Advance states "Morton was born on Nov. 28, 1872, in Lynchburg". The only thing I can come up with showing October 16 is from a search result for the University of Wisconsin, i.e. "A woman surgeon; the life and work of Rosalie Slaughter Morton, M.D. (born Blanche Rosalie Slaughter; October 16, 1872 – May 5, 1968) was an American physician, surgeon, and author. UW-Madison · https://search.library.wisc.edu › catalog" but if you access the site it merely says 1876-1968. (Perhaps you can find another source, as I am searching from Mexico.) But definitely the discrepancy needs to be explained. (Apparently she lied.) You will need to create a sign in for Family search to access (free site) but her declaration on her 1898 passport application states October 28, 1872, while her 1919 passport application states October 28, 1876. On the 1880 census her parents reported she was 8 (born 1872). When she married in 1905, she began reporting 1876 possibly because she was older than her husband. Using primary sources is not prohibited and is specifically allowed to provide simple statements of fact. Her parents were unlikely to misrepresent her date of birth and in the earliest record she reported it, it coincides with her parents' statements to the census taker, thus those are likely to be accurate. Were it me, I would use the date October 28, 1872, cited to the 1880 census and 1898 passport and add a note that she later reported to be born in 1876 (cited to the 1919 passport), which other sources repeated.(Ogilvie, Harvey 2000, pp 918-919)(National Library of Medicine)(Commire, 2007) Other sources, like the The News & Advance and Find-a-grave report variants such as November 28, 1872. (I note that Commire at least gets the date correct, but uses the wrong year.)
  • "Travelling", "sterilising", "neighbourhood" etc. are BE spelling. As she was from the US, should probably be AE throughout, particularly for consistency since you are using US-style dates.
    • @SusunW: I'm so accustomed to writing BE that I'm actually not sure I'd change everything that needed it - I didn't know "travelling" was BE, for example. Could you make this change? Sam Walton (talk) 23:06, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Done SusunW (talk) 05:14, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • desire to become a doctor herself seems awkward, possibly lose the herself.
  • Likewise, does one join a university? Suggest "enrolled in".
  • Seems significant and is reported by many sources that she is the 18th member of her family to be a physician. Why omit this?
    • @SusunW: Which sources? I'm failing to find this mentioned at the moment. Sam Walton (talk) 23:18, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hicks is the first one I ran across, but it's also in the article about the divorce SusunW (talk) 05:14, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comma after 1893.
  • Why no mention of her graduation in 1897, graduation awards, or post graduate work? (More, 1989, p 640) Okay, I see that you have it in career, but as it was part of her education and not actually a job, I would move all of her schooling information up here.
  • Why are you calling her Morton? She isn't married at this point and you haven't introduced a husband. (Yet another reason for moving the education section here.) Throughout this section I would call her Slaughter.

For the sentences between Morton graduated from college and published by the Johns Hopkins Medical Society. which IMO belong here:

  • Give her year of graduation, 1897 per More.
  • She subsequently interned no citation for the paragraph? She wasn't just traveling, she was observing in clinics, hospitals and laboratories. Most appears to be confirmed in More, 1989 p 640, but not London. Hicks confirms London, but also says she observed in Saint Petersburg, Moscow, and London, as well as in Sweden and Finland. Why omit the latter and include the first?
    • This list came from The Biographical Dictionary of Women in Science as their highlight of locations. I've moved that citation up, I'm not sure how it became detached. Sam Walton (talk) 23:34, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • During this time, Morton took courses, observed surgeries, and wrote a number of scientific papers including several comparing the health of women and men. Needs a source. The four cited sources confirm courses (should say graduate) and observations, and Hicks confirms she wrote a paper on the plague, but none say several papers or comparison of men and women. Okay, I found that in Ogilvie & Harvey, p 919, which gives specifics of what she studied where: Göttingen (studied German), Berlin (studied surgery, microscopic diagnosis, and obstetrics), Vienna (attended rounds and autopsies, observed surgeries), Paris (studied relationship of circulation, respiration, and digestion systems and gynecology; and the impacts of social, mental, and economic conditions on overall health), London (studied brain and gynecological surgery, obstetrics, and neurology.)
  • I've been dinged in FA for listing more than 3 citations without WP:BUNDLING
    • Shifted the Ogilvie & Harvey cite out to the previous sentence where it really belonged, so this is only 3 citations now. Sam Walton (talk) 23:34, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • What was she doing in Ceylon? (which you should call it and parenthetically state is now Sri Lanka) According to Hicks and Who's Who she studied tropical diseases for two months.
  • This says she went to Ceylon first, then India, and then the Philippines.
  • Probably significant that her thesis on the bubonic plague per Hicks was distributed to quarantine ports by the Surgeon General of the United States.

Later life:

  • Comma after 1910
  • So did they divorce? I'm confused as (Abir-Am, Outram p 52) and Who's Who says her "husband" died. More also calls him her husband (More, 1989, p 640), (More, 1999, p 123). I found his obit which I am sure is him per burial, but it doesn't mention a wife, only that he was living in Virginia and had been ill since November 1911.
    • @SusunW: If I had to guess, they started divorce proceedings and then either decided against it or never completed the paperwork by the time he died. There's only that one source suggesting that they were getting divorced, and then all sources relating to his death call him her husband. As such I think it's probably best to leave it as ambiguous as we have, i.e. reporting on the divorce proceedings and him dying as her husband? Sam Walton (talk) 23:22, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's fine, it's just a curiosity that someone else is likely to query as well. (I actually found 3 or 4 articles in different papers about the divorce, but all seem to be from a single source.)
  • Section is problematic per WP:PROSELINE and one sentence paragraphs. Can you rework it so that it is flowing prose instead of the repetitive date bullet-like format?
    •   Done Copyedited and expanded by using her autobiography to flesh out info on the Winter Park move. Sam Walton (talk) 23:52, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Winter Park, Florida.[12][3] and living in Winter Park.[12][3], flip refs for numerical order.
  • Morton died in 1968 should reflect entire date or you need to cite the full date in the lede, as otherwise there is no documentation for where May 5th is derived.
  • I note in the Who's Who that she was a supporter of women's suffrage and a member of the Equal Suffrage League for both New York State and the City of New York, which is significant from a women's history standpoint (p 580) This is confirmed by Ogilvie & Harvey, p 919 who state that she was a "champion of women's rights". And this where she is encouraging supporting equal suffrage. She also states she was a member of the National Woman Suffrage Association, Buffalo chapter, and attended the Toronto 1909 congress of the International Council of Women. (Morton, 1937, pp 157-159)
    • @SusunW: I added a sentence about women's suffrage. Are you sure she was a member of the NWSA though? The text reads "... asked me to represent the Society of Sanitary and Moral Prophylaxis of which I was a member at the meeting of the National Women's Suffrage Association in Buffalo". I don't see anything saying she was a member of the NWSA there. I've added the other information. Sam Walton (talk) 10:41, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You are right, I misread it, but your discovery of that, led to a better discovery. Collaboration is such a good thing! (She was a definitely a member of NWSA and ICW. These were respectively the national and international umbrella associations to which local suffrage organizations belonged, i.e. membership in the local automatically bestowed membership in their national and international organizations.) I know she was a member because she was a delegate, but better yet, a speaker, not just an attendee. The way that it worked was that local organizations could propose members to speak and vote on their behalf in the proceedings of the national or international organization. Non-members could attend, but they weren't delegates with authority. We know she was an elected/appointed representative because This says that on 17 October 1908 she was the principal speaker and a delegate at the NWSA Conference in Buffalo and spoke about the prevention of social and moral diseases. This says her speech lasted for 30 minutes (that's a long speech at a convention). This says she was an "official delegate" and among the "prominent speakers" at the ICW Congress in Toronto in 1909. Those are pretty significant speaking engagements in the scope of women's history. SusunW (talk) 14:02, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Career:

  • Move everything before Having finished her studies to first section when she was still Slaughter and not employed.
  • More, 1989, p 640 says her DC practice was very successful. Ogilvie & Harvey, p 919 say that her knowledge of tropical diseases led to her being selected to attend the Pan-American Medical Congress (held in 1905 in Panama per Who's Who p 580) and the American Public Health Association meeting that same year hosted in Havana.
  • After her marriage to George Morton Jr. in 1905 she opened is confusing. Yes, she married in 1905, (sources say he went by Baxter) but she didn't move her practice then. That happened in 1906 according to More, 1989, p 640 or in 1907, according to NLM, 2016. Looking at the autobiography (Morton, 1937, pp 147-148), Morton doesn't give dates, but implies they moved to New York immediately following her wedding but she couldn't open her practice until she passed the medical licensing examination. For lack of a definitive date, I'd just reword it to explain they moved in 1905 and she opened a practice after passing her exam.
  • More, 1989, p 640 says in New York she did not have the professional network which had propelled her success in D.C. Ogilvie & Harvey, p 919 say she worked as a civil service examiner and as medical staff for the Teacher's Retirement System. Morton's autobiography says her practice did not become established until after Theodore Roosevelt's presidency ended in 1909 and patients she had served in D. C. moved to New York. (p 148)
  • In 1909, the American Medical Association created at her urging, per Moore p 640
  • Between 1911 and 1912 she was the vice president of the American Medical Association, the first woman to hold the position. should follow 1909
  • Please lose female
  • During this time she lectured at a number of other universities Perhaps, add details per this: "During this time she lectured on eugenics, hygiene, and physiology at a number of other universities like New York University, Adelphi College, and Brooklyn's Pratt Institute and spent one summer spent at the University of Vermont".
  •   Done. Sam Walton (talk) 23:10, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • became a professor of gynaecology in 1913 per 1913 NYT article
  • Sorry. The hazards of reviewing and not just correcting the information. It's from the previous source I was discussing, the Brooklyn Daily Eagle. "I am due at the Polyclinic Hospital. I am a professor of gynecology (AE spelling) there". SusunW (talk) 14:38, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also per 1913 NYT article, she spent from May - September that year studying sanitary conditions, hospitals, and educational facilities in Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Peru, and Uruguay, as well as in the Panama Canal Zone. She also visited philanthropic groups providing aid to orphans and children with disabilities, as well as child care centers for working mothers. She planned to write a series of articles on her observations in South America including comparisons of conditions with those she had seen in Europe. (Obviously you don't have to add this, but it gives a sense of her focus. Clearly she wasn't just practicing medicine, but was interested in public health concerns, which clearly mark her as a feminist, as these were focal issues for the women's rights movement).
  • travelled to Labrador … "traveled" to Labrador in 1915, but looking at More, 1989, p 641, I'd probably start this sentence with "Inspired by the voluntary Women's Hospital Corps (how can we not have an article on this?) established by Scottish and English suffragist physicians, after the outbreak of the First World War, Morton traveled …"
  • Hmmm, The Salt Lake Tribune, 1937, p 22 says after Labrador she went to Bermuda. Certainly possible as More says she took a leave of absence and spent the summer in Labrador and did not go to Macedonia until 1916. I can't find anything to substantiate that claim, but the story of how she obtained a medical license in Bermuda in 1908, which she didn't receive until 1916 (could that be the explanation for the newspaper claim?) pp 182-184 in her autobiography is priceless!
    • That is a great story. I must admit I started reading her book (I have a physical copy) but hadn't made it that far :) Sam Walton (talk) 23:10, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • She was made a special commissioner possibly lead with "The following year"
  • Replace female with woman appointed as (I'd probably also add a citation to the The Brooklyn Daily Eagle I gave you above for unis where she taught, because it substantiates the claim of "first" and I note that way back in 1916 it said "First Woman Doctor at Columbia", apparently not a new debate ;)
  • with the aim of creating new American hospitals in Europe, not exactly. Cullen-DuPont p 14 says it was enable women to participate in caring for the wounded, as they were prohibited from military service. Ogilvie & Harvey, p 919 says it was created to allow women to practice the same medical duties as men. More (1999) p 134 says its goals were to change the restrictions against women serving in the Army Medical Reserve Corp and to send women doctors overseas.
  • Morton became the committee's first chairperson in 1917 and led the service, restructured to become the American Women's Hospitals (AWH), alongside Mary M. Crawford.[3][16][17][14] is confusing to me. I immediately thought "led the service" was some sort of ceremony and had to read it again, but then could not figure out alongside Crawford. Perhaps, insert 1917 in the previous sentence "In response, the Medical Women's National Association (MWNA) voted to establish a War Service Committee in 1917… " then "Morton became the first chairperson of the committee, a few weeks later renamed as the American Women's Hospitals Service, and led the organization along with Mary M. Crawford". Put the citations in numerical order and bundle them.
  • around this time insert comma … add comma to 7000 or spell it out as you did in the next sentence (consistency is key here) … replace female with "women who were doctors"
  • Follow the style you used in the previous sentence for one thousand.
  • After her request to send one thousand medical women who had volunteered for foreign service was opposed by the General Medical Board in Washington, Morton began attempting to raise funds to send them through the AWH. She initially struggled, raising only $11,000 by the end of 1917. First it doesn't appear on p 128, but rather 135 of More (1999), but it's more complicated than that. According to Ogilvie & Harvey, p 919 the GMB refused to allow the women to enlist. If they weren't military personnel, the women would have to be volunteers and the Red Cross was in charge of approving volunteer organizations participating in the war effort per More (1999) pp 136-137, ("…the Red Cross exercised the exclusive right to coordinate nonmilitary medical assistance") Morton attempted to raise funds to send women through AWH, but could not make public appeals without the approval of the Red Cross. She initially struggled, raising only $11,000 through private solicitations by the end of 1917, More (1999) pp 134-135. The Red Cross was reluctant to approve the AWH because of suspected ties to feminism and suffragists, More (1999) p 137 but finally got Red Cross approval in April 1918. More (1999) p 139
  • From She found herself strained to the end of the ¶ appears on More (1999) pp 137-139 not p 128.
  • What does this mean disrupted during the war into education? The war disrupted their education?
  • places of education perhaps educational institutions?
  • Seems bizarre to jump from 1919 to 1930. Checking newspapers.com, I find that she went to Serbia, South Africa, and Mexico during this period and had a habit of vacationing abroad every few years so that she could study medical developments internationally. Her autobiography confirms she sailed in June 1919, bought equipment and supplies in France to build a hospital and then delivered those and toys for children to Serbia pp 300-301. She returned to New York in the fall with around sixty students, pp 315-316. This says she visited Australia in 1923 and Commire says she lectured there and in South Africa. (see below) Ogilvie & Harvey p 919 say she went to Lyon, France in 1924 as a delegate to the American Society for the Promotion of the League of Nations. Her trip to South Africa in 1925 was to study the curative effects of sunlight and her 1928 trip to Mexico included health studies in ten Mexican states, per Bell, linked above. I would insert the above information before After moving to Florida and after it, add info that in 1930 she traveled to evaluate relief work and policy in the Baltics, Finland and Sweden and in the mid-1930s to India, Persia, and Turkey to study health standards. There are newspaper articles through the 1950s showing she was still active and lecturing.
  • Move Over the course of her career Morton published 23 scientific articles in medical journals and is credited with 11 inventions. to the section now called "books", which should be renamed as "works".

Awards:

  • Belgrade are named after her.[21][4] put refs in order.

Books:

  • I would rename section "Works"
  • After 11 inventions which is moved as the first sentence here, add including "a surgical shoe, a treatment lamp, and adjustable bed-lifting blocks" per Commire.
  • reviewed well I don't think we actually mean that the review was done properly? Perhaps reviewed positively or well-received?
  • a review wrote I am positive that a review is incapable of writing  . How about reviewer?

References:

  • All of the citations should follow a consistent formatting scheme. Some show first last; some show last, first. Some show 10-digit ISBN while others show 13-digit. This converter will allow you to make them uniform. Likewise MOS requires "title case" on English works. This converter will do that. Also some places of publication are given and some are not, why? Need to be uniform. If any author or editor has a wikipage you should link to it with author#-link or editor#-link. I also link journals, newspapers, and publishers if they have a wiki article.
  • Link to A Woman Surgeon is snippet view. Replace with open access link
  • Link to National Library of Medicine defaults to main page and (for me anyway) required accessing 3 different pages to get to Morton's bio. Correct link to direct bio.
  • The News & Advance links to a subscription only page. Correct link to wayback accessible link.
  • Abir-Am/Outram formatting is not consistent with other formatting, i.e. editor-last1, editor-first1, etc. produces last name first order as in other sources.
  • Anne Commire has same problem, i.e. last=/first= But it is cited as a webpage, when in actuality it is a chapter of a book, volume 2, with 2 editors Anne Commire and ‎Deborah Klezmer. Gale CX2588817130 shows pp 1367-1368 and worldcat, 978-0-7876-7677-3
  • Margaret L. Hicks should be last=/first=
  • Restoring the balance: Women physicians has no link, but there is an open access link which should be provided. Also remove page=128. It's a book any page can be used. You should specify what page with either harvref style or {{rp|#}}.
  • "Good Medical Work in Latin America" is a subscription only link. Please mark as such.
  • I also note here that with More (1989), you are citing the page range 636-660, which is proper for a journal, but to prevent a reader from having to search the whole range, you should specify what page with either harvref style or {{rp|#}}.
  • Edith Moriarty should be last=/first=
  • Harry Hansen should be last=/first=
  • George Currie should be last=/first=
  • Morantz-Sanchez has an open access link
  • Serbian ref needs a trans-title in title case

Photos:

  • Photos need to contain alt text, i.e. alt= explaining what is in the image for those who cannot see it. Something like Image of two women wearing hats and coats and historic marker with a photograph and text on a pole.
  • I'm not sure that you can use published notification on the lede image without verifying that it was definitely published. I think the correct licensing is {{PD-Bain}}

I've made a start. Will come back to it tomorrow. Fascinating woman and I am enjoying learning about her. Sorry, but when I am reviewing, I am slow, as I check and cross-check. Will try to wrap up my comments tomorrow. SusunW (talk) 22:49, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is amazing @SusunW - thank you so much for your detailed review, take as long as you like! Agreed - I was shocked when I originally discovered no one had written her article yet. I since purchased my own copy of her autobiography, which I enjoyed reading, she was also an entertaining writer! Sam Walton (talk) 22:59, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oh also, regarding the date of birth (which confused me too), there is some further information at Talk:Rosalie Slaughter Morton - I'm in contact with the Virginia Department of Historic Resources who have been quite helpful after they researched this for her historic marker. Sam Walton (talk) 23:06, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously, they came to the same conclusion as me LOL. We can't actually say she lied, but it's pretty obvious from the sources available that she didn't want to appear older than her husband. Thanks for you patience. My comments are based on how I would review an article and prepare it for FA, and I get that I am kind of obsessive about details and getting a sense of who they are, not just what they did. They are merely suggestions and you can accept or reject them.   SusunW (talk) 15:10, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Okay Samwalton9, I think I am done. I hope the review helps. I am happy to discuss or revisit anything if you want me to. I have marked the page, but I get busy, so please ping me if you need me to respond to something. SusunW (talk) 22:25, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This is incredible work @SusunW - thank you again! I'll start working through your suggestions over the coming week(s) and ping you if I have any questions. Sam Walton (talk) 18:25, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Query by Z1720 edit

@Samwalton9: It has been over a month since the last comment. Is this ready to be closed? Z1720 (talk) 17:50, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Z1720 Yes, this can be closed, I've been (very) slowly picking away at this, but can respond to SusunW elsewhere if I have further questions. Sam Walton (talk) 18:08, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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