Wikipedia:Peer review/Robert Goff, Baron Goff of Chieveley/archive1

Robert Goff, Baron Goff of Chieveley

Hi and thank you in advance.

I've listed this article for peer review because I want it to get GA status and hopefully FA status after that. This page has already been through one unsuccessful GA nomination, which it failed for lack of citations, and for one citation which the reviewer said was a breach of copyright (which has since been removed). I've now done as much as I think I can and I would love for more experienced editors to give their views on what more I could do or amend to get it there.

Thanks, Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 16:37, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello! You've done a great job so far. I'm aware that you're currently on a wikibreak (and that this article is already a GA), but here are a few suggestions for when you come back if you want to move it forward to FA.

• You use the word "also" a lot when it isn't necessary. Sentences like "propositions were also not unanimously welcomed" and "He would later also receive honorary degrees" don't need the word also.

 Done You're right! This was a great catch. I've used the word "also" 15 times across the article. I've now cut it down to 4, where I think the word is still useful. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 08:03, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

• The final paragraph under "personal life", "Goff was described as giving off a first impression of remoteness,[4] reticence[4] and formidable formality,[6] as a result of his distinction as a lawyer or having inherited a military bearing from his father.[6] However, he was also warm, kind and passionate about his students.[6]" In these paragraphs, you have five citations from two sources. You don't need quite that many.

 Done Good call, thanks. I've merged them. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 08:49, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

• In the picture of five people, put "from left to right" to clarify who's who.

 Done Done, thanks. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 08:49, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

• The phrase "took silk" confused me initially. I'd suggest replacing it with "joined the queen's council" or something similar, but this could just be me. It's up to you.

 Done Good call, done. "Taking silk" is a common term in English legal circles, but I suppose would be confusing to the layperson. A slight difference though: he is appointed "Queen's Counsel", which is a title. There is a separate "council" called the Privy Council, which a much smaller number of people are appointed to. These include Lord Justices of Appeal and Supreme Court judges. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 08:49, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

• "Goff long advocated". Replace with "strongly"?

 Not done Hmm, I'm thinking of keeping it because the point is how long he advocated for it. He started building bridges very shortly after he transitioned to the Bar as a junior barrister. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk)

• "As a young officer, he fought in the Second Boer War, was wounded in the Siege of Ladysmith and mentioned in dispatches". Exchange "he" for "his father".

 Done Good call, done. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 08:49, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

• Is mentioning the name of the first husband of the widow his father married important? Seems a bit removed from what we're trying to say.

 Not done I'm torn here, and tempted just to leave it in. It's just to give a sense of the background he came from, his family structure and all that. These might be of interest to a reader because they can influence judicial policy in later life. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 08:49, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

• Citations number five, six, and nine in the article are exactly the same. Is there something I'm missing? These are also the most heavily cited sources,

 Done You're right. I've merged them. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 08:49, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

• I don't want to be the guy who spoils your fun, but... the entire early life and education section is entirely sourced from one book. Is it possible to diversify it a tad?

 Doing... This is a fair point but I chose this source because it was reliable. There are a variety of sources available but they have muddled or incorrect information. Even what we might consider reputable sources - e.g. an obituary in The Times or the Guardian newspapers have incorrect information. This source was written by a senior judge and academic who knew the subject well, and who has credited the Goff family with helping him put together the information. I could, however, put up some other sources where they corroborate the Beatson source. What do you think? I'm concerned it'll look weird that I'm using them for some things and not others. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 08:49, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Alright then. In that case, it should be fine. Aven13 11:56, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

• The later years and death section isn't entirely necessary, given that it's just two sentences. Maybe make it into a subsection under "personal life".

 Done Good call, done. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 08:49, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

• In the long quote about the Pegasus scholarship, the latter half about how the pegasus scholarship will help to uphold common law isn't required. The first half is an excellent quote that can be put anywhere to show his support of common law, but the second half isn't entirely necessary.

 Done You're right, done. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 08:49, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

• "Katharine" should be spelled with an e.

 Not done Her name is actually spelt "Katharine", with an "a". Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 08:49, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

• For the intro, you have two quotes. The first one is excellent. However, the second one should probably be replaced with **examples** of what he did to help ensure that the views of legal commentators reach the courts.

 Doing... This is a good point, though I'm somewhat stymied by a lack of sources. As a law student, I know many of Goff's judgments cite academics, and I know that it has subsequently become common where previously it was rare. But I don't have an individual source that makes that claim, and I'm afraid I'll fall foul of WP:NOR. There are some anecdotal examples: for instance, he built up the Law Lords library when he was appointed to the House of Lords. But this anecdote trivialises his contributions. I figured that an acknowledgement by a former Court of Appeal judge of his contributions is the closest I can get to proving that he has changed judicial practice. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 08:49, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Then the quotation is a good choice. Aven13 11:56, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

That's all I have for now, but excellent article, definitely worthy of GA status.Aven13 16:17, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Aven13: Thank you for taking the time to comment, it was very helpful and I've incorporated some of the changes. I had a couple of questions (I've indicated them next to  Doing...) in response to your points - if you wouldn't mind having a look and telling me what you think? Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 08:49, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

@Kohlrabi Pickle: There you go. I don't have any more comments (at least for right now) but I wish you the best of luck if you ever decide to get this to FA! Cheers, Aven13 11:56, 12 May 2020 (UTC).

Aven13 Thank you again, very appreciative. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 17:01, 12 May 2020 (UTC)