Planetes edit
This article has gone from being simply a translation of the Italian article (which was a Featured Article) to a very detailed and well-researched article that has gone far beyond the Italian original. Keep in mind that yes, there are a few missing links. But that aside, I would like to know how to upgrade this to at least Good Article status. --TcDohl 16:26, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
- needs a "creation" section discussing the authorship, with words from the creators themselves if possible. needs a "legacy" section discussing the impact, significance, other mangas and anime that were infleunced by it, what the creators did next, anything other than the manga and anime. a "reponse" section detailing sales, critical and commerical response, viewing figures etc. Zzzzz 16:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Where would you suggest I go and get some sales statistics? --TcDohl 21:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
- Almost no meaningful content and a lot of utter bull... impressive. But seriously, any form of serious secondary source would help the article a great deal. But, as directly fixable points:
- Relationship between manga and anime is confused, the structure and a fair bit of the prose implies the anime came first.
- There's mention of the style of the manga, at all.
- There's no meaningful mention of the style of the anime, just a misleading sentence about the portrayal of weightlessness.
- There's no mention of the shows creators, bar a redlink to the director.
- The lead is poor, and US-centric.
- Bullet points are terribly overused, as are notes to backup uncontroversial statements: "the Planetes manga is a 5-part graphic novel series available in English from TOKYOPOP.[17]"... I mean...
- The description of the plot, and themes, is terribly uncritical: "set a precedent of portraying a highly multicultural cast of characters respectfully and with minimal use of racial stereotypes" OH, COME ON! Of the three black characters that appear in more than one episode, two are terrorists, and the third is the kind of sambo 'comic' character I thought the world had grown out of. Even has seven children, cliche cliche cliche.
- Spoiler section contains no meaningful content, either cut it, or discuss the ridiculously chauvinistic ending.
- Dunno about sales figures, but if you want TV ratings you can get them from a back issue of Newtype.
Anyway, this is a *good article*, as anime articles go. It's just... less good by other standards. --zippedmartin 23:14, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
I understand a whole lot of the suggestions you say. Anyway, I thoroughly disagree with your assertion about the racism. Anyway, if you count Hakim as a "black" terrorist (who is actually Arab), then you also have to include Ismail-sempai (from the manga), Ahmad Ibn Fadlan, and his daughter (who are also Arab), neither of whom are terrorists. Lavie is definitely not a "sambo" character. He's not even black, he's Indian, and doesn't have the characteristics of a "sambo", save the dark skin. Who cares if he's got seven kids? It gives the character a clear motivation throughout the series and not simply as "because he's Indian" (though I've never heard the one about Indians having many kids).
I also don't understand how the lead is US-centric. I live in Canada, and I don't really see how that's so. --TcDohl 02:37, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Addendum: Fee is also black, and several chapters in Volume 4 of the manga were about Fee's hermit uncle in the American South who was wrongly accused for crimes because he was black.--TcDohl 02:51, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
- I don't disagree that the manga is different, but *in the anime*, the three main darker-skinned-than-japanese characters are either terrorists or racially stereotyped comic characters. I dunno who's been covering that wikip sambo page with links to African American that have been confusing you, 's an Indian character. There's a better term for what I mean (the kind of comic, incompetent and selfish manservant character), but I can't remember it atm. Anyway, whatever preaching the anime does on globalisation issues is thoroughly underminded by its institutional-rasism in characters is portrays.
- The lead is I guess more just not-very-good than amerocentric - needs to be three or so paras, the current emphasis on the english language releases just looks a bit silly. --zippedmartin 16:11, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
What three characters? Lavie, Claire, and Hakim? You know, you totally forgot about Fee, who is actually African American. Anyway, you still try to explain everything about Lavie, but I still haven't heard of that stereotype. If he were French, then that'd be a stereotype. And if you haven't noticed, most of the SDF were white. The "executive committee" of the SDF were all white, save Hakim. The smoking room bomber was white. The guys that took Dolph hostage were white. The Von Braun invaders were white. Also, Claire didn't start out to be a terrorist, only a victim of bad circumstances. And if you include her as an evil "black character", then what about Temara? He also was a victim of circumstance, but he turned out to be good. The characters in the anime portrayed in a less favourable light are almost all white. Locksmith, Dolph's successor, Edel's ex-husband, Colin, etc. --TcDohl 17:30, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
- You're missing the point, white 'baddies' doesn't change the fact non-white-non-asians are largely portrayed in a negative way, and conform to the very stereotypes the article currently claims are avoided. (French? I don't get that. You clearly have different French stereotypes where you come from). Fee would count I guess under my clarification, but is clearly mixed race (jesu, I feel like a neo nazi going into this kinda detail) and more to the point, first-world. It's the third^H^H^H^H^H less developed nations that really get it in the neck from the anime. I guess if it's just reinforcing what you believe anyway (and Hollywood certainly believes it), it might be less of a sore thumb. Anyway, that's one point out of... lots, look at the others if you disagree with that one. Arguing over one sentence is not a productive way to spend peer review time. --zippedmartin 18:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I didn't find the ending mysoginistic, either for the anime or the manga. In the manga, Tanabe goes back to work and goes on a whole other thing with Fee and Yuri. Hachi goes to Jupiter. If you're talking about the anime... do you really expect a pregnant woman to go and do a very dangerous job in space? That's not mysoginistic, it's just putting safety first.
Oh, and the trickster image that you were trying to explain. I thought of the French because of the whole mime-trickster stereotype. --TcDohl 18:30, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
- As the article is terribly anime-centered atm, we'll be talking about the anime for as long as you think plot points are more important than gaping holes in the content of the article. So, if the only way you can deal with your vocal and idealistic female lead is by leaving her disabled and pregnant at home while the guy goes off to pursue his career, you'd still consider joining a feminist association? Look, what's lacking is not me bitching about these minor things on the talk page, it's any kind of *serious* criticism in the article. Which, unfortunately, you're unlikey to find in English, and certainly not on the internet. --zippedmartin 18:57, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Trivia section must go, or merged with the article --Jaranda wat's sup 22:17, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
- Try to merge trivia with article. Incorporate see also into main body and remove the section when empty. Plot should be next to characters. Realism, themes, reaction should go together (and trivia probably should be merged into it). Finally, why do we have manga section but no anime section?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 16:43, 16 April 2006 (UTC)