Wikipedia:Peer review/Jackie Robinson/archive1

Jackie Robinson

• A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for April 2009.

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because…

We're coming up on Jackie Robinson Day 2009 (April 15). In advance of a lot of anticipated views on and around this date, I've done a lot of cleanup work on this page in the last week.

This article was semi-restricted in 2008 because of multiple lazy edits, and was a confusing article up until this year, to say the least. I'll save the details for later discussion, but my edits involved a lot of cite-checking, reference additions, citation standardization, removal of weasel words, cut-and-pasting of sections to make more narrative sense, some additons to Jackie's life between the military and baseball, etc..

In particular, I'd like someone to cofirm the Duberman book citations, because I can't find the book itself or an internet preview of it. The other book citations I've verified to my satisfaction. I took out one citation to the Duberman book because it was an obvious misquote: "the Black newspaper 'New Age' remarked that 'being Jim Crowed by Washington's infamous lily white hotels In 1963'", citing pages 361 or 362 of the Duberman book (on the subject of the Robinson-Robeson HUAc incident). Possibly the book says something like this, but the events took place in 1949 rather than 1963, so something's amiss. Plus, there are enough other citations on the Robseson issue, IMO.

Let me know your thoughts. I'd like to take this article to featured status as a tribute to Robinson.

Thanks, BillTunell (talk) 19:15, 13 April 2009 (UTC) BillTunell

Comments from KV5

• African-American is linked twice in quick succession in the lead.
• "The next year he played for the high school's basketball team." - comma after next year
• "shortstop and leadoff batter for the baseball team" - leadoff hitter is the preferred term
• "While playing football at PJC he suffered a broken ankle," - comma after PJC
• "he was arrested for questionable reasons" - this is vague, is there no further info?
• "All-Southland Junior College (baseball) Team" - this could be better written by either removing the parentheses and capitalize Baseball, or by writing All-Southland Junior College Team for baseball.
• "Thereupon Robinson was awarded a gold pin and was named to the school's 'Order of the Mast and Dagger'" - I don't know if thereupon is the correct word here, I'd consider a change if it's not.
• "Robinson transferred to the nearby University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA)" - comma after (UCLA)
• "on the 1939 UCLA Bruins football team," - comma should be a semi-colon
• "Robinson’s worst sport at UCLA —" - don't space em-dashes. Either use a spaced en-dash (which you use earlier, so I recommend this for consistency) or change to an unspaced em-dash.
• "he went 4-4 and twice stole home base" - has to be 4-for-4 because non-baseball readers will not know what this means, also change home base to home plate
• "racially integrated Honolulu Bears" - don't the Honolulu Bears have an article?
• "— including Truman Gibson, an African-American advisor to the secretary of war —" - more spaced em-dashes, see above
• "After his commisison" - commission, and I believe it should be commissioning, as the two words have different meanings for the military
• "the bus's driver" - this could be a little confusing. If it's supposed to be possessive, it should be bus'; however, then it just looks like bus driver, which would be appropriate in any case. I'd say change to the latter.
• "After his discharge, Robinson briefly returned to his old football club the Los Angeles Bulldogs." - comma after club
• I think that the "Post-military" section could be one paragraph instead of two.
• "In Sanford, Florida, the police chief threatened to stop the game if Robinson did not leave the field; in Jacksonville, the stadium was inexplicably padlocked shut on game day; in DeLand, the scheduled day game was called off on account of faulty electrical lighting." - two semi-colons make a really long run-on here, I would make three smaller sentences. I don't know that the lighting issue can be attributed to Robinson's race, so I don't know that it merits inclusion.
• Per WP:DECADE, "1880's" should be 1880s.
• "less than stellar" is a compound adjective, change to less-than-stellar
• "Reese also once came to his friend's defense with the famous line" - comma after line
• "off season from a Vaudeville tour" - off-season, and vaudeville should be lowercase
• Another linking of African-American ("the famous African American athlete and actor Paul Robeson")
• "th Dodgers were able" - the
• "Also in 1952" - could be changed to that year
• "from addressing racial issues publically" - publicly.
• "62 runs, a .311 batting average, and seven steals" - 7 steals per MOS:NUM, these are comparable quantities
• "It's the swimming pool . . ." - change ". . ." to the ellipsis character …
• "partly because Gilliam had staked a claim on second base" - remove link per WP:PIPE
• "decided to play Gilliam at second" - see above
• Baseball color line is linked a lot in the article, it only needs to be linked on first appearance
• "He stole home 19 times in his career; one of the most difficult feats in baseball, and none of them were double steals." - change punctuation to He stole home 19 times in his career, one of the most difficult feats in baseball; and none of them were double steals.
• "Martin Luther King, Jr. to defend the Johnson Adminstration's policy there" - I didn't go back to check but I think this is the first mention of MLK, so he should be linked, and Johnson shouldn't be linked to LBJ
• "Hall of Fame bound player" - hyphenate, Hall of Fame-bound
• "as of 2007 the number of African-Americans in the major league has been on the decline for decades." - an as of statement needs a reference, and it reads awkwardly
• "In 2008, the percentage of back players rose to 10.2% (up from 8.2% in 2007). [105]." - double punct and no space between statement and ref
• "The Yankees' Mariano Rivera will be the last player in the major leagues to wear #42." - is, not will be
• "The tribute was continued in 2008, when, during the April 15 games, all members of the New York Mets, St. Louis Cardinals, Washington Nationals, and Tampa Bay Rays wore Robinson's # 42.[134] In 2009, all uniformed personnel wore # 42 on April 15. [135]" - no spaces in "# 42" or between statement and refs
• Reflist should be 2 columns max per MOS.

Hope that these comments are helpful. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 18:43, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

April 20 2009 Changes

Thanks KV. All changes made with the excepetion of the "lighting issue" allegation, which is original to the source.

Is it original to the source that race and faulty lighting are related? That's the connotation in the article right now. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 21:11, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

That's the connotation in the source artcile as well, which states that Robinson was "unwelcome" in DeLand. I've limited the characterization in the wikiarticle as "refused to host games involving Robinson" to be literally correct. Maybe some other wording could be used.

I've found an additional cite, which is probably the original, and used its language instead. BillTunell (talk) 18:19, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Looks good. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 19:08, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Comments

First off, you're doing great work, keep it up. Secondly, you should study and understand WP:NPOV and WP:Peacock, which the article struggles with and which will shut down a FA nom before you can blink. The most important thing to remember is to "let the facts speak for themselves". You don't need to say things like "he had a great season" when instead you've already said "he won the MVP". Then just make sure the facts and statements you use are sourced and verifiable. In most of the instances in this article, the POV and Peacock statements just need to be deleted because the facts and sources are already there. Now for some specifics:

While I would have preferred to make these changes in the FA review stage instead of holding up the peer review for two more weeks, most of your changes are good. I'ven noted my changes in bold.

• "While not the first African-American player in major league history, Robinson's debut with the Brooklyn Dodgers organization broke the baseball color line, ending a nearly sixty-year era of segregation in professional baseball, in which African-Americans were prohibited from competing in Major League Baseball and its affiliated minor league systems, and relegated instead to the Negro Leagues." ~ long and wordy sentence, break it into multiple sentences

changed

This section still seems clunky to me, but I'll try my hand here:

While not the first African-American player in major league history, Robinson broke the baseball color line when he debuted with the Brooklyn Dodgers organization in the mid-1940s. Prior to Robinson, African-American players were prohibited from competing in Major League Baseball or its affiliated minor leagues. During this nearly sixty-year era of segregation, they had played instead in the Negro Leagues. Timpcrk87 (talk) 20:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

• "At the time, segregation dominated many, if not most, aspects of American life." was it many or most? what do sources say? i would use a term more specific that either of those myself

changed

• "As such, Robinson's arrival in Major League Baseball had a major cultural impact beyond sports, and helped to shape the subsequent Civil Rights Movement." ~ As such is unnecessary and adds to the wordiness; is 'shape' the best word there; was it "Robinson's arrival" (as is currently the subject of the sentence) that helped to shape or was it Robinson (he, the person) that helped to shape?

changed

• "Apart from his cultural impact, Robinson had an exceptional baseball career." ~ Peacock sentence, delete

I've left this unchanged for a few reasons: (1) it's a topic sentence for the paragraph, (2) it's a notability claim in an article header, and (3) the "exceptional" designation should be well within perameters of WP:Peacock ... he's in the Hall of Fame.

From the lead paragraph of WP:Peacock, In Wikipedia articles, try to avoid peacock terms which merely promote the subject of the article without imparting real information. Examples include describing people as "important", "main" or "among the greatest" in their field without explaining why. Peacock terms often reflect unqualified opinion, and usually do not help establish the significance of an article. They should be especially avoided in the lead section.

This sentence, and the one below, are pure peacock. If you still want to set the tone for the paragraph, topic sentence as you put it, simply begin the first sentence: During his baseball career, he played on six World Series teams,. That way you can establish the focus of the paragraph without any POV or flattering comments. Just let the facts (ROY, MVP, All-Stars, HOF) speak about his career without editorializing the article. The guideline is to "show, don't tell." Timpcrk87 (talk) 20:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

• "Robinson also enjoyed success outside the baseball diamond." ~ Peacock, delete

another topic sentence, but I've scaled down the language.

See above, this is still Peacock. Timpcrk87 (talk) 20:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

• "In 1935, Robinson graduated from Dakota Junior High School and enrolled in John Muir High School ("Muir Tech")." ~ is graduated the right word for junior high?

As I underrstand it, yes. "Graduated" can be from any grade within a school or a school itself. I don't see a WP:MOS treatment on the issue.

It's a minor issue really, but both the wikipedia article (Graduation) and my favorite dictionary define it as the act of receiving a degree. I would use progressed or some similar word instead, myself. Timpcrk87 (talk) 20:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

• "Jackie played shortstop and catcher" ~ why his first name?

changed, along with any other "Jackie" references that are not in quotes or are useful to distinguish Jackie from his brother.

• "starred as a quarterback," ~ starred is pov

changed

• "After leaving Muir," ~ did he graduate? leave is ambiguous here

changed

• "where he continued to excel in sports." ~ Peacock statement

changed

• "Among other accomplishments," ~ Peacock statment

changed

• "Jackie suffered a broken ankle," ~ why his first name?

changed

• "On February 4, 1939, he played his last basketball game for PJC." Is this notable? If so, then why isn't his last football game, baseball game, and track meet notable?

I'm leaving this as-is for now, having added a source for the statement. It's not terribly germane, but it gives some context for the timing of Robinson's enrollment at various schools, which otherwise is a bit lacking.

• "An incident on January 25, 1938 illustrated Robinson's tendency towards belligerence when confronted with perceived racism; on that date, he was arrested after vocally disputing a black friend's detention by police." ~ this phrasing may come from the sources (which I don't have the books) but "tendency towards belligerence" is POV. instead just state what happened in more detail if the sources provide it, let the reader decide if he was belligerent

The Linge book citation actually says "belligerent" (although the Google Book Preview linked in the footnote has scrolled to a different set of pages at this point -- most books cited have a preview link if anyone wants to check books). But I scaled back the language.

This is really a major concern for me. The article is implying Robinson had a "tendency to become upset when confronted with perceived racism" based on just one example. Scaling back the language from belligerent to upset doesn't really fix the problem. A source needs to be found, and this incident needs to be described in greater detail, and without the POV. Just present the incident and let the reader decide if he became belligerent or upset or especially if its a tendency of his. Using a quote from a good source here would be quite helpful to convey any belligerence without POV. Lacking a source with more detail, the phrase "illustrated Robinson's tendency to become upset when confronted with perceived racism" should be removed. Timpcrk87 (talk) 20:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

• "After leaving PJC in 1939," ~ again did he graduate or just transfer, its ambiguous

Don't know, so I copied the language of the UCLA Bio link.

• "In an ironic twist, given his subsequent role in history, baseball was Robinson's worst sport at UCLA." ~ I suggest putting 'worst sport' in quotes since the source says it and remove 'in an ironic twist' which is POV; the sentence may need to be reworded after that to keep syntax

changed.

• "Robinson left college in order to alleviate" ~ you use 'left' (leave) again, this time i guess he dropped out, right?

Yes. The citations verify this.

• "had previously been Jackie's pastor at Scott United Methodist Church while Jackie was at PJC." ~ first name again, twice

changed

• "Kansas City Monarchs, then the most successful team in the Negro Leagues," ~ POV, just say Kansas City Monarchs, a Negro Leagues team,

changed

• "Jackie had grown used to a structured playing" ~ why use his first name here? or "Jackie played 47 games at shortstop"

changed

• "Ironically, the last Major League team to integrate blacks onto its roster, the Boston Red Sox, held a tryout at Fenway Park for Robinson on April 16, 1945,[64] though even with the stands limited to management, he was still subjected to racial epithets." ~ ironically is Peacock and this sentence is confusing; how did a team have blacks before Robinson? explain. then sentence is a run-on too and should be broken up

changed -- the use of the word "last" to "final" should clear up any confusion.

Ok, so I understand the meaning now, before I thought they had been the last team with a black before segregation. But they were the last team to desegregate. Still think it is written poorly though. Try this way:

The Boston Red Sox held a tryout at Fenway Park for Robinson on April 16, 1945. Even with the stands limited to management during the tryout, he was subjected to racial epithets. The Red Sox did not sign Robinson following the tryout and would not integrate their team until 1959, the last major league team to do so. Timpcrk87 (talk) 20:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

• "Satisfied with Robinson's response," ~ what was Robinson's response? he was arrested at PJC and court martialed while in the military, what did he say to alleviate Rickey's concerns?

changed, with an additional reference to Robinsons's autobiogrpahy.

Great exactly what I was looking for. But here I noticed that in the Notes section the references are to simply the author Robinson. But there are referenced books by both Jackie Robinson and Sharon Robinson. These notes need to be clarified. Timpcrk87 (talk) 20:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

• (the designation of "Triple-A" for the highest level of minor league baseball was first used in the 1946 season) ~ is this even relevant to an article about Robinson?

I've left this alone for now. I originally inserted this parenthetical when the article referred to other "AA" black ballplayers surreptitiously inserted into MLB games, to avoid confusion. Now that this reference is gone (deleted because it was badly sourced, and cumulative statements made it duplicative), the parenthetical is probably not that germane, but it might help readers to understand the referenced sources.

• (the Dodger-controlled spring training compound in Vero Beach known as "Dodgertown" would not open until the spring of 1948) ~ again is this relevant?

I think so, because otherwise the Dodger organization would have been able to host Robinson's games itself, without any need for politicking.

• wikilink Sanford, Florida & Jacksonville & DeLand

changed

• "allowed to host a game involving Robinson in Daytona." and "debut in organized professional baseball at Daytona's City Island Ballpark" - should be Daytona Beach in both cases

changed

• "Robinson's performance soon rebounded," ~ Peacock statement, besides how does his performance rebound in the first game of the season

I've left this alone. The claim is sourced, and it's not a subjective stretch. "Improved" may be a more literally correct term, but I don't think that reads very well. The "first game" refers to the regular season, as opposed to the preceeding spring training season.

Still think its POV myself. Timpcrk87 (talk) 20:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

• "Jackie proceeded" ~ why the first name

changed

There's a bunch of stuff for you to look at, I'll read through the rest next time I get and check for any counterpoints you may have. I suggest just searching for any place "Jackie" is used and changing it to Robinson to be more formal. I think it might be alright in the sentence with his brother's name also. Timpcrk87 (talk) 20:10, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. BillTunell (talk) 18:13, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

So I added additional comments above where I thought necessary and I'll continue looking through the remainder of the article. Timpcrk87 (talk) 20:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Comment continued from Timpcrk87

• "Robinson became the first player since 1887 to break the baseball color line." ~ Rather simple statement, it should be stated more in depth as it is in the lead. Also, I don't know how this should be termed myself, but was he the "first" player to break the color line or did he alone break it? Did subsequent players also break it? Could it be broken more than once?

References in wikipedia refer to other players breaking the color barrier on other teams, or, as in the case of Larry Doby, the American League. So I think the statement is probably fine, if a bit terse.

• "In front of KeySpan Park there is a statue of Dodgers shortstop Pee Wee Reese with his arm around Robinson. It commemorates a piece of baseball folklore: that in 1947 Reese put his arm around Robinson in response to fans who had shouted racial slurs at Robinson before a game in Cincinnati. This story stood for decades as a symbol of racial tolerance but later became a source of controversy. That Reese put his arm around Robinson is not in dispute, but it probably happened in 1948. Reese also once came to his friend's defense with the famous line, "You can hate a man for many reasons. Color is not one of them." ~ This paragraph seems backwards. It should lead with the story, explain the significance of the act, and then include that a statue commemorates it.

changed

• "Robinson took over his natural position at second base," ~ Natural position may be POV, especially since the article says he had played shortstop until 1946

changed

• "Robinson had turned to George Sisler for batting help." ~ Is 'had' needed in this sentence

changed

• wikilink Buddy Johnson

changed

• 4 games to 1 does not need to be in parentheses but it maybe should be hyphenated

changed to "in five games"

• "The summer of 1949 contained an unwanted distraction for Robinson." ~ Just make sure the source says it was 'unwanted' so as not to be POV

The sources are clear that Robinson was reluctant to testify, so I think this is a fair characterization.

• "The time became right for a film biography of his life," ~ POV that the time was right

changed

• (and another World Series loss to the Yankees, this time in six games) ~ doesn't need to be in parentheses does it?

I've left it as-is because the tone of the sentence changes from success to failure in the parenthatical.

• "Predictably by this point, Robinson's continued success spawned a string of death threats." ~ predictably by this point is POV

changed

• "This animosity did not dissuade Robinson, however, from addressing racial issues publicly." ~ however is unnecessary

changed

• "after what was ironically the worst year of his career." ~ POV stuff

changed

• "This, and a disagreement between his friend Rickey" ~ awkward way to start a sentence

I've reworked this whole paragraph

• "Beginning his career at the relatively advanced age of 28, he only played 10 seasons, all of them for the Brooklyn Dodgers." ~ Major League Baseball should be in that sentence somewhere to be clear

changed

• "In 1999, he was named as a member" ~ 'as' is unnecessary

changed

• "a feat equivalent to a Gold Glove, " ~ POV, the Gold Glove does not automatically go to the player with the best fielding percentage

removed

• "and is the only way that most current players will attempt to steal home." ~ POV

changed

• "Although Robinson played his rookie season at first base, Robinson spent most of his career as a second baseman." ~ use 'he' instead of Robinson in one of the instances so it reads better

changed

• "In his first seven seasons, from 1947 to 1953, Robinson averaged over 110 runs." ~ It's POV to selectively limit his stats to only certain years to make the average look better

I'm leaving this alone for now. This was a heavily-negotiated and much-edited passage in the prior peer review of this article. In support of the factoid, the last three years of Robinson's career had significantly less plate appearances than his first seven.

• 'Boys of Summer' ~ I don't know how this is supposed to be formatted or if it's a book or something else, but this doesn't seem right to me

I was really tempted to leave this passage out altogether, but I've researched the citation.

• "I'm not concerned with your liking or disliking me ... all I ask is that you respect me as a human being." ~ this would be great for a quote box, see Ozzie Smith, maybe other quotes in the article too

Good idea.

• "He nevertheless was installed on the first ballot," ~ nevertheless is sort of POV here and 'installed' is an awkward way to say it, why not elected?

changed

• wikilink Cooperstown

changed

• second paragraph of post-baseball life is out of order chronologically

These paragraphs involve overlapping time periods, so I don't see any change that would be an improvement.

• "In 1970, Robinson established the Jackie Robinson Construction Company to build housing for families with low incomes." ~ why is it there as a paragraph all by itself, i would suggest adding it to the second one in this section

changed

• "Despite the success of these two Robinsons and other black players, the number of African-American players in Major League Baseball has generally been on the decline since the 1970s." ~ needs a source

This is a summary passage with a "further information" tag following it.

• "Robinson's widow, Rachel Robinson, has had a extremely successful career" ~ peacock statement with extremely successful

changed

• "Robinson's body, which had served him well as an athlete, failed early." ~ POV

It should not be controversial to assert that Robinson was a good athlete, or that he died young. I don't see a NPOV issue here, and the line is meant to impart literary flow. So I've left it alone for now.

• "Robinson's contributions have been recognized in a number of ways." ~ this sentence is not necessary, the section is already called Awards and recognition, just delete it and change 'he' to Robinson in the first sentence

changed

• "He ranks highly in a number of polls and lists." ~ this is a peacock statement

It's a topic sentence, and eliminating it would make the paragraph clunky. The statement is immediately supported with references, so I see this as a pretty neutral comment. Reciting the fact that Robinson is a highly regarded individual is not the same thing as trumpeting him.

• 100 Greatest African-Americans is redlinked and probably not worthy of its own article anyway for just Asante's opinion

I'll leave this question for the wiki adminstrators

• "On June 25, 2008, Major League Baseball replaced Robinson's plaque at the Baseball Hall of Fame to commemorate his off-the-field impact on the game as well as his playing statistics." ~ needs to include 'with a new one' to be clear

changed

• "The Yankees' Mariano Rivera is be the last player in the major leagues to wear #42 on a regular basis." ~ typo

changed

• "Dodgers' de facto spring" ~ i have no idea myself but is de facto suppossed to be italicized

WP:MOS is not very detaield on what cosntitutes a non-italicized "loanword," but the article on the phrase "de facto" italicizes it

Well, there you have it, I don't know crap about refs so if there are issues there I don't know. Timpcrk87 (talk) 21:49, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. We have some remaining disagreements, particularly on "peacock" issues. While I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong on those issues, I'll leave those to the (eventual) FA review process administrator to resolve. BillTunell (talk) 20:59, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

That's fine, I'm a bigger stickler on some of those issues than is probably necessary amd I can see the counter view on many of them. I want to note though that I strongly feel that there is a POV issue with the statements about his arrest while at PJC that need to be resolved. But good work on the article and good luck promoting it to FA status. Timpcrk87 (talk) 04:51, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm re-wording the PJC arrest line a little bit more, but I consider the event, and Robinson's character trait associated with it, notable. The PJC arrest is only the first instance in which Robinson blew a gasket -- the military court-martial events being the more substatnial example -- and this charcter trait, for good or ill, was a major concern of Rickey's before signing Robinson. The commetn on his character trait is a sourced observation rather than a gratuitous one. So I'm leaving it in for now. If it comes out differently in the FA nomination process, that's fine.BillTunell (talk) 13:26, 7 May 2009 (UTC)