Wikipedia:Peer review/Gamal Abdel Nasser/archive2

Gamal Abdel Nasser

Previous peer review

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I intend to nominate it for Featured article review soon. Since the last peer review in 2009 and GA and A-class reviews in 2010, I have significantly expanded or revamped large parts of the article and it could use an additional review before FAR. The particular sections are: Lead, 1948 Arab-Israeli War, Assuming the Presidency, Nationalization of Suez Canal, Suez Crisis, Pan-Arabism and socialism, Influence on the Arab world, Revival on pan-Arab stage, War of Attrition and later life, the entire Legacy section and Personal life.

Thanks, Al Ameer son (talk) 01:07, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Initial Peer Review

Great work on the article it has grown a lot since last time I checked it. I just have a couple of questions that I raise while reading the article if there is information about it please do provide it.

• How did Abdel Nasser manage to get educated even though this was only for the elite as far as I remember?

What I've gathered from Aburish is that Nasser's father worked in the civil service and was forced to move from town to town and that Nasser's family was on the margin's of Egypt's small middle class at the time. He also writes that his mother Fahima was the daughter of a well-off coal merchant and that she spent all of her "forty dollar monthly income (a substantial sum then) she received from her family to educate her four children," citing Lacoutre (1973 p. 20.) I'll try to add more about this in the article. Aburish also writes that "All his biographers (Lacoutre, Nutting, Stephens, Mansfield, Tikriti, Abdel Malek, Stewart, Wynn, Woodward and 18 others) agree that he spent most of his spare time reading ..." Aburish himself states "the most telling part of his personality was his ability to maintain scholastic continuity despite the many moves from school to school." --Al Ameer 23:15, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

• How did he manage to secure a meeting with the Secretary-of-State even though he's just 19 and not well known.

Aburish writes "... he accepted the need for a wasta, and he mysteriously managed to see the secretary of state, Ibrahim Kheiry Pasha, who sponsored his second attempt at entering the Obassia Military College.[14]" His footnote cites Anouar Abdel Malik, Egypt's Military Society (Arabic) (Cairo, 1982). p. 206. Do you think we should allude to the apparent fact that he landed this meeting "mysteriously" or no? --Al Ameer 23:15, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

• Please wikilink Ibrahim Kheiry Pasha. What is the secretary of state position? Is that the foreign minister?

Highly doubt he was foreign minister. This source from 1939 describes Ibrahim Kheiry Pasha as the "Under-Secretary of State for War." That would make much more sense. I could wikilink him, but there's no article on the guy and I've found very little on him online. It seems he was one of the less important government officials at the time. Of course I only have access to western sources. --Al Ameer 23:15, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

• Was he turned down from school because he needed a wasta or did he have bad grades since he only spent "45 days" in school a year at times.

Aburish says it was the wasta. The source says he missed 45 days in his last year of secondary school. It doesn't say he skipped school often during other years. Don't know anything about grades. Unfortunately, I don't have too many sources at my disposal that really discuss his early life. --Al Ameer 23:15, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

• When did he join the military academy cause it's not clear whether it's 1937,1938 or 1939

1937. --Al Ameer 01:33, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

• "Nasser, like most Egyptians, saw this as a blatant violation of Egyptian sovereignty" while this might be the common notion now it is not true. Crowds went in cheers to applaud the appointment of al nahas since he was unconstitutionally removed from his position earlier. Also Ali Maher was not the prime minister of Egypt at the time but Hussein Sirri Pasha and he resigned earlier that day. There's an article about that at Abdeen Palace Incident of 1942. While it's not detailed or comprehensive it should be wikilinked. It also marks the first military coup in the history of modern Egypt.

The Aburish source, which is used for this sentence, actually doesn't say "like most Egyptians" in those words, but he does say that the incident caused the Egyptian people to generally become disillusioned with the Wafd. He also says "The feeling among Egyptians that Farouk should have led a call to arms was widespread" and that Egyptian officers were particularly incensed, including Nasser, Naguib, Mohieddin, and Sadat. The article doesn't mention any support for el-Nahhas being reinstated, but either way I've removed that particular bit from the sentence. As for Mahir/Sirri Pasha, I assume Aburish just made a mistake. --Al Ameer 01:33, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

I'll review the other sections soon but these are just few thoughts from the first reading.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 12:56, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

• The first demonstration he joined what was it for? This source states it was for the cancellation of the 1923 consitution. He also went to prison for participating I think that is worth mentioning.

Done. --Al Ameer (talk) 04:37, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

• The paper in which nasser appeared is also in that source I think it's worth being displayed in the article. The source is by Nasser's daughter and it details his early life and upbringing.

Done. --Al Ameer (talk) 04:37, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

• One reference link is dead "Desouki, Khaled".

I replaced it with an actual article. --Al Ameer 18:45, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

• One has an author but not mentioned "Safeguarding Nasser's legacy".

Done. --Al Ameer 18:45, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

• "The Oxford companion to politics of the world" needs all its citebook parameters filled as well as the specific pages from which it was cited
• Same for "Land, Poverty and Livelihoods in an Era of Globalization"

Done. --Al Ameer 18:45, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

• http://www.country-data.com/ does not seem like a reliable source.
• http://www.transnational-research.com/luxorlad.htm needs a template and I am not sure whether it is reliable as well.

Replaced. --Al Ameer (talk) 04:37, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

• "Liberating Nasser's legacy" needs an author

Done. --Al Ameer 18:45, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

• "Egypt candidate to seek election suspension" "publisher=" is showing

Done. --Al Ameer 18:45, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

• In the external links section you should consider linking to the english version of nasser.org rather than the arabic one. I would also suggest reviewing what should be put there.

Done. Also, removed everything else from the section. Just a bunch of youtube clips, soundless CIA short clips of Nasser, the Philosophy of the Revolution which is already linked in the article and an opinion piece. If you have reservations about some of the links I removed, let me know. --Al Ameer 18:45, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

• The writings section why is it that it says "including the following:" did he write any other books?

Clarified. To my knowledge, he only wrote three books. --Al Ameer 18:45, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

• I don't think egypt.com is a reliable source which is used to state that nasser56 broke every box office record.

I clarified the statement (the Egypt box office record has since been broken). It did set the record at the time though. I've replaced the source with clearer RS. The article on the film itself has the potential to be substantially expanded. I might work on that at later time though. --Al Ameer 18:45, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

• "From a legal standpoint Nasser had the right to nationalize the canal as long as he paid off its shareholders". Could you clarify that more cause I thought this was somewhat controversial.

That's all I think.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 15:08, 23 July 2013 (UTC) Some extra commentsDiaa abdelmoneim (talk) 23:10, 24 July 2013 (UTC):

• There are some comments that weren't responded to in the previous peer review.

The main concern of the first peer review appeared to be be the reliance on Aburish. Whether or not this will be a problem in the FAR, I will try to replace it as much as possible. --Al Ameer (talk) 05:55, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

• There is a todo list in the article talk page check what is still needed, add to it or clear it out.

Done, except for the video of his resignation, which I don't think I can a get a hold of and upload. As for the NAM, this was a very important aspect of Nasser's presidency, but I'm refraining from adding substantial amounts of material until we get started with Czar's copyedit (see below). --Al Ameer (talk) 05:55, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

• Please resolve the minor issues for links redirection and access date. --Al Ameer (talk) 05:55, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Fixed except for a couple of access dates which I will get to. --Al Ameer (talk) 05:55, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

• You have two references with "Aburish 2004, p. 18"

Fixed. --Al Ameer (talk) 05:55, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

• There is a picture with no description on commons or source and some have bare links which should have a proper title. One of the pics has a fb link as source which might result in a copyvio as it is not a reliable source and the link is dead as well. Please review all images as they are considered in the FAC.

I fixed some, replaced some. I'll finish up with the rest of the images soon. --Al Ameer (talk) 05:55, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

• Check out Wikipedia:DASH#Dashes as some dashes don't conform with it.
• All his children are wikilinked in the personal details section. If they are not notable don't wikilink them. Otherwise I suggest creating stubs for them.

Done. Might create an article on Hoda later. --Al Ameer (talk) 05:55, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

• Sulayman Hafez should have a stub as it is wikilinked twice in the infobox. Being a deputy prime minister and minister of interior he is notable.

Done. --Al Ameer (talk) 04:37, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

• There were many posters of nasser whenever protests are done in Egypt for example the 25 January revolution contained many pictures of him as well as the 2013 June coup. I think this deserves a mention in the legacy section.

In the legacy section we have a passage that discusses the phenemenon in Egypt and the Arab world during the Jan. 25 revolution. I'll try to add something about the ongoing demos, but I've mostly found blogs that currently discuss it. I have come across some RS that compare Sisi with Nasser (not really a good comparison). If you have any articles I could use, it would be great if you can give me the links. I'll keep looking in the meantime. --Al Ameer (talk) 05:55, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

This is one of the finest articles on Wikipedia I think and certainly deserves being a FA.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 23:10, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for all your collaboration in writing this article, Diaa. I appreciate all of your latest suggestions and your review. There are still a couple of concerns that I haven't addressed yet, but by the time this entire peer review/copyedit is finished, I'll have dealt with them. It's been several years since we started work here and I hope we could finally get it through FAR. Cheers, --Al Ameer (talk) 05:55, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Review from czar

I'll add notes from my copyedit here. To keep things tidy, please only respond in-line where necessary, and otherwise respond below my review. This will most likely take a few days, so feel free to reply here as I add preliminary notes. If possible, wait until after I finish editing to do any surgery. And here we go

• Things I did not (at least yet) do: did not verify lede or infobox within article, did not spot check footnotes, did not copyedit sources, standardize for Brit/American (article uses both, I prefer the latter, though I imagine Brit is more popular in Egypt—your call)
• Lede: "far-reaching" needs to be qualified in the text, possibly additionally cited within the lede if controversial phrasing
• The prose length (98 kB) is nearly twice the maximum recommended length (50 kB). This isn't necessarily bad, it just means you will lose readers in a single article. I'll suggest a few parts to break summary-style.
• Alternatively, I can take out my machete and do that editing as I go, leaving whole paragraphs scorched in my wake, and relocating whole paragraphs to new subarticle ghettos. The cutting won't be pretty, but the prose will be. And history will call it very utilitarian. Let me know what you'd like, or I'll just use my better judgment.
• Every other presidential FA I've seen has every or nearly every sentence footnoted. If you disagree with the intent, my perspective is that you never know who will stuff whole unsourced sentences into a paragraph in the future, and if sourced, such a sentence makes the first split of the paragraph look attributed to the said source. This is an easy way around that.
• Lede: removed "inauguration" since it wasn't mentioned in the text
• Lede said Suez Canal Co nationalization was "welcomed by the Egyptian people" but article says Arab world, so I changed it
• (That part in-article needs more sourcing—can't rely on a single source as the barometer for the Arab world's reaction)
• same for "iconic figure" and "symbol of Arab dignity"—more sourcing to reinforce an outstanding claim
• didn't see source for Nasser as symbol of "freedom"
• From a skim, I don't seen enough evidence for the legacy claims summarized in the lede. This isn't to say they're not true, but they need more careful sourcing in the article. (E.g., is he a symbol because of his pan-Arab, anti-imperialist efforts, or are they just correlated without cause)
• "housing provisions" should be clarified in lede and article (for whom, what kind of housing?)
• what is a "cultural boom"? Is it like a golden age? Explain.
• what is a "direct relationship"? That he appealed to the people's interests? That he set up systems of direct democracy? That he gave the people bread and circuses but no progress?
• Why were the 1956 referendum margins so extreme?

Early life

• distilled background section into relevant affiliations, other parts can be excavated into personal life section where necessary—I didn't see the dad's youth as immediately relevant, though I'd like to work the lineage into the Personal life section if you don't like it in the new paragraph. Would be nice to add how his parents met, could work that into the marriage sentence (not a big deal, though).
• ✓clarify "tribal inclinations" (what does it mean?)
• ✓"that of most Egyptians"—clarify this too (does it mean most Egyptians don't have that sense of personal loyalty? in what era? is it true?)
• rephrased section so as to remove confusing cross-referencing of names (guidelines recommend using surnames only after first mention, which is difficult in family sections), also switched Gamal → Nasser
• Why was he sent to Cairo (twice)? Did it have to do with giving him stability? Or him getting into trouble?
• It may be helpful to make the footnotes list-defined—makes it easier to read the prose
• Also consider archiving the weblinks with webcitation.org or archive.org for posterity
• "According to most of his biographers": "most" is weasely unless there is a survey of all of his biographers, changed to "three", then removed the phrase altogether since it has consensus between the biographers
• removed grandfather and uncle's names as not pertinent to the story
• when did he return to Alexandria after private boarding school? to attend secondary or for another reason?
• WP uses British quotation, where the punctuation almost always goes outside the quotes
• "Nasser headed an anti-British demonstration of his fellow students in Cairo" → "Nasser led a student demonstration against British rule": is this change okay? what was anti-British about it?
• list of literary references would be better if it spoke to how it influenced his thinking

Military career

• ✓He enrolled in law school but failed? How?
• ✓Do you know which law school?
• Why did he want to join the military if he was anti-gov?
• ✓Why was the Italian coup never executed—what happened? Also why did he plan this? It seems out of color from his military training. If he had ambitions at this time, they should be enumerated, if known
• "not reacted against this attack" → all direct quotes need to be directly sourced
• also move the periods inside the quotation marks only if the periods are included as part of the original quote
• ✓"at his office in Cairo" → whose office?
• ✓why did the Egyptian gov't refuse his transfer?
• ✓"1947–49": use en dashes for date ranges
• ✓add [sic] to Margolis quote if he spells Falujah with two Ls
• ✓why were his actions honorable at Falujah? What about it made him a hero?
• Would be helpful to outline his beliefs on why he was determined to topple the monarchy—there are only a few examples thus far, but it would be good to sum his feelings
• ✓What about the Israeli occupation of Eilat was embarrassing?
• ✓This section's mention of Hussein Sirri Pasha can be trimmed to only tell the parts that pertain to Nasser (unless this part is necessary for understanding the attack on Sirri Pasha later, which it doesn't seem to be)

Revolution

• ✓Who "talked of"?
• ✓"Sirri" or "Sirri Pasha" when using his surname?
• Did Nasser ever make good to the woman he injured when going after Sirri Pasha?
• Did the public know Nasser was waging this assassination campaign, or when did it come out?
• ✓Was the six-point program public or private? Do you have a picture?
• Was Zakaria a Free Officer? I said he was, for clarification
• ✓large chunks are unsourced in this section—highly recommend distributing the footnotes to each sentence for posterity
• prose is really, really good in this section

Road to presidency

• ✓Is this audio file public domain? What category do you put it in? (Should be specified as rationale on file page)
• "the communists" is referenced a few times—does this refer to a conglomeration of Egyptian communist parties? If it's a single one, it should be linked and given a capital C as a proper noun. If not, it's fine as is.
• what were Nasser's political ambitions at this time? Did he want to be president? Did he not care? Just wanted to see his agenda through? Why did he want parliamentary elections when the rest didn't—how would he respond to them? (This would be my major criticism of the article, albeit not a large criticism because it's very good: what was Nasser thinking? Article's doing a lot of telling instead of explaining what and how he thought manifested in his actions. Granted, this is hard to do.)
• Why did the RCC go along with Naguib's kidnapping? How did Nasser unilaterally decide and act on deposing him?
• I added the word "both" to show that the positions were separate—verify?
• ✓"Large numbers of citizens": how large? Hundreds? Thousands? Millions?
• How did relations between Nasser and Naguib work after Naguib was reinstated?
• What gave Nasser such broad power after the assassination attempt? Public support? Should be mentioned
• ✓Was Qutb's sentence actually commuted? Wasn't he in jail until the 60s, then released, then returned less than a year before being put to death?
• ✓"one of the largest political crackdowns in the history of Egypt" should be directly cited as a controversial statement
• ✓can the first picture in Assuming the presidency be cropped or better explained? It's hard to count from the left
• How did N gain control of state media? Force? Persuasion? Support?
• ✓1955 RCC appointed him president of what—the RCC or the single political party?
• ✓were his military forces actually too weak to confront Israel, or did he decide it wasn't a good idea? Was it his "inability" or more of a "lack"?
• $320 million in whose dollars? I formatted for USD, but change accordingly
• How did Nasser make a case for the single-party system? Did the people actually approve?
• How was the constitution approved with a 99% majority? Did dissenters just not vote? Did they not exist? What happened?
• ✓Why did the RCC resign? It makes it seem like they've accomplished their purpose, but since they dropped their military titles as well, it's almost like they failed at something.
• ✓Sections that can be trimmed: the roll call of Nasser's friends at the end of the section, and some parts in how the crackdown worked
• Shouldn't non-aligned movement get its first mention somewhere around here?

Nationalization of Suez Canal

• picture of dam or area would be nice here
• ✓unless his cabinet relations are important here, we can move the discussions over the date of his decision to another article. If anything, we want to know how much of his decision was opportunity vs. planning.
• ✓"lost" digging the canal how? to death? worth clarifying
• "prevent Nasser from achieving his stated aim of annexing the Sudan": never explained how this was an aim of Nasser's—I thought he wanted to give them independence?
• "any British-French invasion begin with" → "any British-French invasion would begin with", right? He's guessing how the invasion would go?
• "Nonetheless, his prestige at home and among Arabs" → "Nonetheless, Nasser's prestige at home and among Arabs", right?
• ✓Consider removing Ismailia line, unless it has some importance I don't see

Pan-Arabism and socialism

✓*"Nasser was not a supporter of communism": should be sourced

• ✓So were they actually trying to overthrow Hussein?
• ✓"belonging to all the Arabs": was this his position? Verify my changes
• Was Hussein just scared, or was it justified? Unclear as is

The sources (Aburish, Dawisha (in this article) and Dann, Anderson (Sulayman al-Nabulsi's article) cannot say that Nasser or his regime was behind it for sure, but the details of April 1957 in Jordan could be found in the al-Nabulsi article. I might start a separate article on it later.

• ✓same as before, I think this section needs more direct sourcing, but you can leave it to FAC if you want. I'm used to FAC requiring a footnote at least every two sentences, though.
• ✓bought media outlets how? Magnates buying out stations to influence their messaging, or starting new companies to spread the message, etc.?
• ✓bribery claims should be directly sourced as controversial
• ✓"challenge Israel" how? Makes it sound like the Palestinians relied on him to be strong for them, but is it supposed to mean he had enough clout to take them to task, or to stand up for them, or to negotiate/"go to bat" for them?
• "Together, they formed": who is they? I said Nasser supporters
• ✓change of political party is unclear—he abolished one party for another? How did that work? What about the single-party system? What were the ramifications? I changed the language, if you could verify
• ✓What is the difference between the National Union and the National Assembly
• ✓Crackdowns against other parties necessary to add? How about whether they ever stopped, instead?
• ✓"after the events in Jordan": what events? specify
• ✓missing sense of time. when did Nasser say it would take five years and keep that date close to when he changed his mind
• confirm that he became the president the day the UAR was born
• ✓pic of guys on couch needs date
• ✓clarified Quwatli as Syrian pres, but is he still the pres now that it's the UAR, or just former pres?
• why didn't they want to integrate Yemen?
• ✓"King Saud was allegedly planning on having him assassinated": why is this alleged? changed it, but correct if the sourcing doesn't back it up
• quote box needs year, also is it a personal translation or from the book ("which" should be "that")
• (I started using inline tags to make the process easier, where the tags would be self-evident)
• "most serious Arab enemy": reconsider word choice re: "serious"—what does it mean? What kind of enemy?
• how did the Lebanese partisans react to Nasser's abandonment? How was the fight going for them before the withdrawal?
• dont know whats motivating nasser at this point—does he have popular support? what about in Iraq while he's playing coup-maker?
• who led the Syrian Army at the end of the UAR? Were they previously mentioned?
• Faisal Saudi leader should be clarified from Faisal from Iraq
• I had no idea Nasser was so involved with the beginning of the PLO

Modernization efforts and internal dissent

• why the shift to Islamism?
• "The Muslim Brotherhood consequently sentenced Nasser to death.": what? how?
• "Strait of Tiran; the issue": was this his semicolon? I'd change otherwise
• did Nasser want war as a ploy to unite the region?
• "Nasser eventually began changing positions from avoiding war to giving speeches claiming war was inevitable" sentence doesn't make sense in context of the previous one
• Did Nasser imprison Qutb himself? How was he involved
• Was Qutb actually conspiring with the Saudis? Should be mentioned, not just Nasser's accusation

Six-Day War

• Why did he say he was fighting for the Palestinian people? What made him say or think this when he was weak?
• "former Syrian prime minister Amin al-Hafiz": was he former at the time too? what was his role then?
• "accepting its inevitability": verify this rephrase (and if true, why did he fluctuate? instability? image?)
• Worth mentioning why Israel attacked
• "armor" → "armored units" (to avoid jargon), correct if wrong
• ✓"two days earlier": didn't he resign on 8 June? Two days earlier would have been 7 June.
• "Many cried in open sympathy with Nasser's position.": rephrase, also not sure what type of crying or decrying
• "enabled him to arrest a large number": how did it enable him, and why did he arrest the officers?
• ✓why did Amer's home village call him a hero?
• ✓why did the three bigger countries get the subsidies? why is this worth mentioning?
• ✓what is "we shall fight" about the image?
• what happened in this "meeting" where Amer was arrested?
• why did Amer kill himself?
• was he actually planning a coup? Any accusations should try to be verified, if possible. The article paints Nasser as sort of paranoid by this point, and we have no way of knowing whether it's justified because we don't know the truth of the situations. (Granted, this could just be history.) Also if it is true, they were not "arbitrarily" arrested.
• did N personally have a role in arranging Amer's suicide? Otherwise should not be implied
• removed "ambiguously" from the resolution 242 sentence, as it adds more issues than it alleviates
• "the move" is ambiguous: Nasser's move or Israel's move or the UN's move? I picked Nasser, but verify
• "a sign that he wanted to negotiate the Palestinian issue, removing it from the top of his agenda": unclear what this meant (esp. "Palestinian issue")—I rephrased, please verify
• "While his traditional Arab enemies (Saudi Arabia and Jordan) still conspired to reduce his prominence or remove him altogether": doesn't quite add up since the Free Princes worked with him and Jordan's King tried to save his ass quite a few times. Were they really traditional enemies? If so, needs to be reflected in the article, and could use direct citation. Also if only SA and J are interested in removing him, perhaps should say that instead of "traditional Arab enemies", for brevity's sake, or switch to "such as SA and J".
• "partly because of financial dependence on Arab states of the Persian Gulf": unclear who depended on who and why they all maintained good relations for it
• what does "rejectionist front" mean? rejecting his policies? clarify
• what are "recent moves"? the un resolution? amer's suicide? what else?
• this last paragraph could probably be summarized to avoid the rephrasing issues

War of Attrition and later life

• At this point, I'm seeing how the article can be trimmed, and it'd be in moving the bulk of his presidency into an article about his presidency (or into Nasserism/pan-Arab articles) and giving summary-style of how these sections of his life fared (such as taking five paragraphs and leaving the bulk of details out for two paragraphs of essentials). The reality is that it's interesting enough to read and the prose is good, so there really isn't a reason to go that route unless the FAC reviewers complain. Nasser's life was so eventful that the comparison to Khrushchev isn't far off, and I'd be comfortable advocating for the 85k (though I can also see easily ceding if someone has clear recommendations on shortening sections).
• Little on how the people who lived in the Sinai felt about Nasser (ironically, this paragraph addresses the people's reaction, though I see how such a request strays farther from Nasser's bio )
• "partly because of financial dependence on Arab states of the Persian Gulf"
• "demanded the institution of political reforms": ? (actually, i just scrapped it)
• "a third of which was held by high-ranking members": a third of the previous positions or the cabinet altogether afterwards? i rephrased, verify
• war resumed in march 1969 but when did it previously end?
• is RCC "comrades" a term that reliable sources use? It would better to use "officers" otherwise
• RCC in this section is a little ambiguous since it hasn't been used in a while and since the Iraqi RCC was the last mention of the acronym. Consider rephrasing or reintroducing.
• wasn't explained why Israel never retreated from the Suez after the UN resolution said so
• "Sadat advised against it": what is it?
• "Boghdadi; he had since reconciled with the latter": which Boghdadi?
• "PLO's behavior in Jordan": what behavior?
• "despite protests from Nasser who issued condemnations against the hijackers": unclear. they hijacked without nasser's permission? or nasser asked them not to do it before? also the condemnation part is weirdly put in the same sentence. I removed this part and...
• I recommend summarizing the last paragraph of this section to be less expository and more summary that the Palestinian groups bothered Hussein, who reacted to the Dawson's Field hijackings with Black September, Nasser swooped into save the day with the emergency summit. I tried my hand at this, but you'll see that it made sourcing the statements harder

Death and funeral

• ✓citation for the public not knowing about the heart attacks
• is "al-Sawi Habibi" proper capitalization? (Not familiar with how al and el prefixes work)
• ✓"began at the RCC headquarters": wasn't the RCC long gone?
• ✓were the jets ceremonial or for security? isn't it called something if it's for a memorial?
• why didn't Faisal attend?
• ✓cite statements about people crying and fainting
• ✓not sure Soviet Premier counts as Western dignitary?
• ✓source every sentence here, for posterity

Legacy

• "upper world": clarify
• sympathizers/detractors comparison would work well at beginning
• "national economy was significantly reformed": the economy was reformed? rephrased
• ✓list of artists can be slashed, his legacy should be painted in broad strokes everywhere the details aren't absolutely necessary for knowing Nasser—Nasser administration article can cover the cultural impacts, but keep the bio on point
• why did Islamists deem Nasser a traitor?
• how did he display a bourgeoisie mentality? not mentioned prior
• watch the "many" and "most"—try to clarify
• "Pharoanic" → "Pharaonic", right?
• ADNP vs. ANDP
• "Nasser defined the politics of his generation.": move earlier in the subsection? don't want to mess with refs, since they aren't on the first sentence there ("Nasser's stature")
• How is Nasser taught in schools?
• direct quotes need direct citations
• Comparison with Sadat section can be greatly summarized to Sadat following Nasser's lead but actually differed in policymaking
• lots of usage of "far" here
• if keeping Sadat section, what's the counter to the line about angering the large segment of society? Was there much of a counterargument?
• three films, no?

Personal life

• what kind of classical music did he like? Classical Arabic?
• family credits and where-are-they-now would be best in a family tree subarticle, though not sure if necessary here
• see also links are not supposed to repeat from elsewhere in the article, but I don't think it's a big deal if lightly used
• external link has strange format

Misc. follow-up

• Margolis quote: what made the Egyptian performance at Faluja honorable? Honor usually refers to personal dignity, but is this honor for Arabs that the unit defended their cause even without support from its command? Clarify
• "Naguib was half-Sudanese and popular there, (and/but) felt that most Egyptians and members": it appears antithetical that he was popular in Sudan but opposed their self-determination, so "and" is awkward here. Would suggest rephrase or change to "yet" or "but"
• Is the Al-Gihad scan the actual page mentioned in the article? This is the association, so specify in the file descrip and caption (incl. year)
• "as its president until the holding of a presidential election" → "national elections", right?
• I don't know what percentage of this article was you, but whoever is responsible must be commended. While I can't speak to its balance, Nasser's story was fascinating, and even more compelling to read.

Czar review discussion

Discussion below (only comment in-line where absolutely necessary). Checking (✓) at the beginning of the items you've covered is okay too. I'll comment again once I wrap-up. czar · · 22:37, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Hey Czar, I went to replace some info and distribute citations in the Military career section and got a little carried away with some copyediting. Besides that, I'll wait for you to finish the copyedit. As for some of your concerns above, I've added some more sources/citations to the Legacy section (including with "symbol" and "icon") and made some clarifications there. There's still more sources I will add, but I prefer to wait until you reach that section, if you don't mind. It might be easier this way. "Cultural boom" does refer to golden age, which I hope I clarified. If not, then again, I'll wait till we get to that section. "Direct relationship" in this case refers to Nasser's populist manner of governance with relatively powerless institutions. He attempted to appeal to the general interests of the people, but it wasn't a democracy by any means even though he was genuinely very popular during his rule. Of course he still had significant detractors, particularly towards the last years of his rule. While I do not doubt that the 1956 referenda were approved overwhelmingly, I have trouble believing in those margins, which I didn't include in the article. The source I used just says they were approved overwhelmingly. There could very well have been voting irregularities to say the least. Housing provisions means cheap housing in this case, I'll clarify with sources when we get there. Since we spoke about the article's huge size at my talkpage, I'll just wait until we gradually get through the copyedit before discussing it further. --Al Ameer (talk) 06:42, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

✓ Also I'll ce the changes as long as I remember, so you don't have to put it in the summary. czar · · 09:50, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Early life

• Actually I'm glad we're getting into lineage. I'm wary about saying Nasser's paternal lineage stems from the Hejaz, because Stephens says "According to local tradition the village got its name from the Bani Murr tribe which came from the Hejaz in Arabia and settled there presumably during the Arab conquest of Egypt." I think it would be a step too far to say Nasser's family had Hejazi lineage. The authors (Aburish and Stephens) are trying to say that Nasser's family possessed a combination of Arabian and Upper Egyptian characteristics that distinguished them from most other Egyptians. I couldn't get a clarification about "tribal inclinations" or "sense of personal loyalty" so I think we could get rid of that entire sentence and keep the stuff about Beni Mur in its respective article since its ultimately based on local tradition. Aburish writes "In other words their Arab and tribal inclinations and sense of personal loyalty differed from those of the average Egyptian. Their slogan is supposed to have been 'We never attack, unless attacked.' Furthermore, although his formative years were spent in Alexandria and Cairo, he considered himself the son of Beni Mur, and his thinking belonged to the countryside. The Saidis are proud, emotional and manly. So Nasser had that rare combination of tribal Arab and Saidi characteristics." If we could replace the sentence currently in the article with one sentence that you can extract from that passage, that would be great. Or we could just remove it completely. I'll leave that up to you.
• As for returning to Cairo twice, Aburish himself asks "But why was Gamal in Cairo anyway" about his first stay there. He says it was either because his mother was ill and unable to take care of him or that his parents "saw a special spark in him and decided to send him to the big city and a better school." So there's not much an answer there. As for the second time, I made a mistake. Nasser's dad and stepmother actually moved to Cairo in 1933 and Nasser joined them there. I made the correction.
• He returned to Alexandria from the boarding school to join his father who was transferred there. I know, there's a lot of moving back and forth, an important aspect of his early life.
• Your rewording of the "anti-British demo" sentence is accurate.
• As for quoting the literary works instead of the figures, I think I'll be able to do this, but it might make the section thicker. Should I go ahead and do so anyway?
• Also, should we mention that Nasser had a total of ten siblings, full and half? --Al Ameer (talk) 05:59, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

✓ on Hejaz removal, the intro is fine without more about origins speculations (especially as they more pertain to his father), and good idea to move it to the area's article, if you have the chance. On the literary figures, only mention the items that have an impact that is necessary to our understanding of Nasser as a person and figure, and woefully scrap the rest for the sake of space. Yes, definitely worth mentioning his half-siblings near where his father remarried (unless it was yet another wife?) ✓ on everything else. czar · · 09:50, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Other sections

• The sources that I have access to don't mention anything about Nasser ever contacting the passerby he wounded, nor am I sure if the public was aware of the campaign. I'm thinking no though, since I think it only came to light in Sadat's autobiography. I don't have a picture of the program, just the English translation provided by Aburish.
• "communists" is not in reference to the Party. Wherever it is I'll capitalize it.
• I've encountered a lot of trouble with the Sudan issue. I think the Jankowski source would be the answer to all my problems, but I can't access it currently. Aburish doesn't comprehensively describe the issue of Sudan and information from other sources are proving to be confusing, if not contradictory. Might need another day or two to get it straight.
• As for Nasser's intentions, political ambitions, motivations and outlook, I've tried to pepper them in throughout the article, but feared this was the opposite of what the FAR would look for (don't have much experience with FA's). I completely understand your criticism and will add more to the relevant sections tomorrow and the day after. For the record, the sources I have access to do provide the necessary information on this matter, so finding won't be a problem, but you will likely need to copyedit my additions.
• Relations between Nasser and Naguib after the first ousting attempt is apparently hard to come by. I'm sure the memoirs of the officers discuss, but I haven't found much in the sources.
• About Nasser's power after the assassination attempt, he had the backing of pretty much all of his RCC comrades before the incident, but gained a popular boost from the public and the press which gave him the necessary cover to go after Naguib and the Brotherhood. I feel like the article at least implies this, but I'll try to make it a bit more clear-cut.
• About your changes to the Bandung picture, I actually cropped it to only show the mentioned leaders, but the picture changes have been slow to take effect. When it does, my modified caption will make sense. --Al Ameer (talk) 07:03, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

✓ (reminder to check back on the Sudan issue/Jankowski source) Re: Nasser's feelings and motivations—if they're relatively stable, the article may not need more than one or two mentions. Realistically, I'm not sure the FAC will bring it up unless someone sees my comment and agrees. I'm not terribly experienced in FAC myself, but the reviews appear to be grab bags based on the reviewers who decide to participate, and the FAC really revolves around whomever does the source review. I'm happy to copyedit for you anytime—you're an excellent writer, a friendly communicator, and it's a pleasure to read your work. If I'm ever too busy, I'll let you know, but can make time for all reasonable requests. If I ever disappear or get sidetracked, just ping me and I'll get an email, which will remind me to let you know what's up. As I mentioned, I'm moving this weekend, so I'll be somewhat delayed over the next week. The Bandung picture caption edits were more because the counting from the left was unclear as to whether it was the bodies as they sat next to each other or physically in the picture. If you prefer your edit, feel free to revert whenever and wherever you'd like. I see my above comments as advice, and you're welcome to use it (or not) as you please. I'm not personally verifying the fixes, so the checkmarks are more for your own tracking. I'll watch the page and ce whatever comes in through the FAC. And, of course, I'm around for questions/advice/clarification and whatnot. Take care czar · · 09:50, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for all your help and advice, it's proved very useful. I've trimmed some sections and have actually been rewriting some passages as I try to replace Aburish with other sources. I'll to address all your concerns as best I can. --Al Ameer (talk) 05:05, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

• The reactions of Arab dignitaries to Nasser's death were interesting, and (I think) worth keeping if source-able. czar · · 05:53, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Did Gaddafi faint due to emotions or heat? If the latter or unclear, it's not worth adding, though I'd leave the first part about the crying (ostensibly due to emotion). czar · · 06:33, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

• Did Amer or Nasser create the "state-within-a-state"? unclear as is czar · · 06:29, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• You may want to consider nomming this for milhist A-class, when you're ready. Will make the jump to FAC easier with their backing czar · · 06:45, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
• Recently read that Gamal Mubarak's given name is from the Nasser namesake. May be interesting to add in Legacy if the story checks out. czar · · 04:04, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

I think I will go for A-class review after this. Also I restored the Arab leaders' reactions and yes Gaddafi fainted from shock. The Amer-Nasser rivalry in 1961-62 has become more clear to me per different sources than Aburish. I would add the Gamal Mubarak bit, but I think I just want to trim the article down as much as possible. I've confirmed it with other sources, but it's best if we just add it to the article on G. Mubarak. If it was Hosni Mubarak who was named after Nasser, I would feel differently. I'm thinking about getting rid of the section "Comparison with Sadat" and just moving some stuff from that section to "Criticism" since they sort of cross. The article is just too big as is. What do you think? --Al Ameer (talk) 05:05, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Is Aburish not reliable as you thought, or you're just trying to diversify? I mentioned in the review that I'm all for cutting the "Comparison with Sadat" section into a summary. I'd try summarizing it as concisely as possible (a sentence or two) and then adding whatever embellishments you find necessary. I don't think it needs more than a few sentences, definitely not its own section. Haven't had a chance to review recent edits—will most likely wait until late next week. Also, I'm not as concerned about the length as I was previously. Milhist will confirm, though. Not worth stressing over length before the review, especially when the content is so good. I named the sections in the review that I thought could be cut, and I more or less trimmed as I went. You can chop down to ~85k between killing two sections and your current rate of cutting. I wouldn't worry. czar · · 06:55, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good. I'm working through the Arabism section now and will hopefully be done trimming in a couple days. As for Aburish, I'm trying to diversify, although in some areas he's just not as specific as other sources. Still find him reliable though. I used him a lot when I first began editing the article because his book was the only comprehensive source on Nasser that I owned. My personal resources on Nasser has expanded a bit (Aburish is still the only full-on bio) and google books has become more useful to me when I'm looking for specific things. --Al Ameer (talk) 07:26, 3 August 2013 (UTC) --Al Ameer (talk) 07:31, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Also, I don't know how I missed your Sadat suggestion. Must have overlooked it in my skim. --Al Ameer (talk) 07:31, 3 August 2013 (UTC)