Wikipedia:Peer review/Banker horse/archive1

Peer Review and Such

Our class was urged to submit our articles to peer review by Nov. 18th, so I went ahead and submitted it (or at least attempted to). Until a 3rd party can get to it, I'll still take a few shots at adding more information.

Speaking of information...are there any other major subheadings that will need to be included? Right now, I can't think of any, so I will probably just expand on what is already up. Although, if anyone wants to propose a new section I will be happy to create a nice, little paragraph for it. --Yohmom (talk) 02:33, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

• Look at the guidelines at the Horse breeds task force (wikilinked in the infobox at top of this page. Some of the suggestions aren't really applicable to articles on feral horses ( like a "uses" section, though if the adopted ones are trained for riding, that might be interesting).  Not done
• Expand a bit on the critically endangered status of the breed.  Not done Montanabw^(talk) 00:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

• The intro ought to be fleshed out more.  Not done
• Differentiate between "feral" and "wild" right away. Done
• Clarify the use of "Mustangs" to describe Bankers: Mustang is a general term for feral horses in North America, and there are different populations. Done

Is this necessary since "mustang" is not used in the entire article. I tried to completely avoid the word to eliminate confusion, but perhaps it needs to be clarified anyways?

I'm with Yohmom. They aren't Mustangs by any stretch of the imagination (other than both being descended from colonial imports of Spanish horses). No need to mention it and confuse matters unless confusion arises later. Montanabw^(talk) 00:45, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

• Why are Bankers small? Done
• Mention that we measure horses to the withers and not the tops of their heads. Done
• Fix formatting of the US/metric measurements in standing between 13.2 to 15.0 hands high at the withers (54 inches (140 cm) to 60 inches (150 cm)) . Done

Do I even need the inches/cm part, or is a hand not considered a standard unit of measurement?--Yohmom (talk) 03:56, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

All the horse breed articles are starting to do this. We do hands, with a wikilink to Hand (length) the first time, then the inches and cm in parentheses after. Use the "Convert" template, like this:{{convert|54|to|60|in|cm|0}} Comes out: 54 to 60 inches (137 to 152 cm) Works slick. Montanabw^(talk) 04:19, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

• "Face shape is...convex" is not a sentence. The word "dominate" is a verb. To dominate. Convex profiles may predominate the population, but in this context you need to be using the word "dominant" which is an adjective. Predominantly. Done
• Discuss the predominance of convex profiles. Why? What other breeds are known for convex profiles? Not done
  • Convex profile seen in other Iberian horse breeds, also some "primitive" breeds like the Sorraia. Possible indicator of Spanish ancestry. However, also seen in draft horse breeds, too. So could be "proof" either way, but here, probably can find research link to Spanish lines. Montanabw^(talk) 00:40, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
• The comma after "deep" is not needed. Done
• Use qualifying words: usually, commonly, etc. Done
• The first paragraph of traits is repetitious.  Done
• What the heck is strong bone anyway? Not done
  • Horse people wording -- means not flimsy, especially good diameter cannon bones in the legs. Some small horses get kind of frail-looking, "light" bone. Can also reference correct build as well as "good" bone. Montanabw^(talk) 00:40, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
• When I look at photos of Bankers, I see mostly bays and chestnuts, but I also see buckskins, palominos, greys, pintos, oodles of silver dapples,

err....what?--Yohmom (talk) 03:56, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

LOL! Do Bankers come in more colors than just bay and chestnut...they probably do! See wikilinking I added above. Not sure I agree on the silver dapple thing, may be just dun. CC and I are having way too much fun analyzing equine coat colors. Montanabw^(talk) 00:40, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Probably?...Hmmm... I am going to go ahead and check this off because I can't think of any other way to rephrase the sentence (A Banker horse's coat can be any color, but is typically brown, bay, dun, or chestnut.) without sounding redundant. I still think it answers the question of there being more colors than the various shades of brown since it says "can be any color."--Yohmom (talk) 06:07, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm groovy with that. Again, will look over article in more detail later and do some tweaks if needed. Montanabw^(talk) 07:10, 30 December 2008 (UTC) Done

• The sentence : "Several of its characteristics suggested that the Banker horse descended from Colonial Spanish Horses, (Which Are...?)" should probably be in past tense Not done
• Describing what CSHs are.  Not done

On above two, this is a minor minefield. There is an organization for modern breeders of "Colonial Spanish Horses," attempting to "create" a new "breed" (no comment), but the term, as used for this article, references in more general terms the various Iberian horses brought to the Americas, including horses descended from Andalusian, Barb, Arabian and who knows what other stock. Montanabw^(talk) 00:40, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

• Italicize specific genes Done
• Fix awkward sentence about the gene Q-ac... Perhaps "DNA tests have shown that the Banker horse possesses the Q-ac genetic marker, which is specific to...(horses of a certain descent). Breeds such as the ___ and ___, which descend from Spanish stock, also share this marker."  Done
• Elaborate on how we know that these horses diverged 400 years ago. Not done
• "Colonial Spanish horse" needs to be capitalized.  Done
• The "North Carolina" after Corolla Island isn't needed.  Done
• Flip it around: "the wings of the atlas are lobed rather than semi-circular."  Done
• Go into more detail about the spinal anomalies! What are the effects of having lobed atlas-wings? Are there any theories as to why these traits exist? Saddlebreds gait...do they have these same anomalies? Do Przewalski's horses have these traits?  Done
• Definitive is not the word you are looking for. Eliminate the need for the word altogether. Done
• "Could have possibly" is acceptable in verbal conversation, but not in an encyclopedia article. Done
• The first story is hard to understand. Break up those 2 sentences into several. "...de Ayllon attempted to construct a colony on the coast of what would later be known as South Carolina in 1526, and after the settlement failed..." Elaborating could make it clearer. Done
• Italicize the names of ships. Done
• Just mares? Were they pregnant, were there stallions available, or was it Parthenogenesis?

There don't appear to be any records mentioning stallions specifically. I inserted a direct quote, so maybe that will shed a little more light. Done

• Say a bit more about what Grenville said to Walsingham?  Not done

The only thing here is a quote that goes something along the lines of "I seeded the land with beasts and cattle." Not really much help and still a bit ambiguous. --Yohmom (talk) 22:24, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

• Include a brief discussion of NC's barrier islands in the article's intro.

Barrier islands have been described in the "Life on the barrier islands" section  Done

• Specify that horses are grazers Done
• Go into more detail about their diet. Not done

What else would you like to know? I'll see if I can go find it. :) --Yohmom (talk) 06:32, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

• Discuss the implications of their diets as far as conservation and being a nuisance. Not done
• "when consumed" is redundant. Done
• The first sentence is wordy and vague. Opposition? What does that mean? Having "feral" in there would be okay if the sentence weren't already wordy. "...inhabiting barrier islands today..." as opposed to when? And "threat of adverse environmental impacts" is honestly not that bad, but it will set off the "CATCHPHRASE!" alarm in readers' heads. Instead, you could rewrite it as: ___(Person, entity or entities)___ has/have been concerned about the impact of the Banker Horses on the environmental health of North Carolina's barrier islands. In order to represent both sides, it is important to point out that horses are not native to the islands (horses did live in the Americas, yes, but the environment was a different one), and then to summarize the concerns that these persons or groups had: overgrazing of native flora, erosion and damage from their hooves. Then go into the specific studies. Done
• Remove colons and rewrite sentences where you find them.  Done
• The sentence "However, a research study...proved otherwise" does what is called "advancing a viewpoint" or "editorializing." Of particular concern is the word "proved." The study showed, or suggested. Done
• Explain that the native shore animals do not have behaviors that allow them to cope with the non-native invader. You can use a better word than "destroy" their young...kill, trample, etc.  Done
  
• Offer an introductory summary about management. Done
• Explain how adoptions/pennings occur. Not done
• Didn't any people die when they ran their cars into horses? Not done

Apparently not...the only thing that I can find is that six (horses) were killed in one crash. I guess it would be like hitting a deer; it happens all the time without human fatalities. Plus, a horse only needs one good break to the leg to be euthanized. :( --Yohmom (talk) 22:24, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Countercanter (talk) 17:33, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

• More images.  Done
• Make sure that there aren't spaces between punctuation and references in the body. Done
• Make sure that the first time a ref appears in the body is when the full information is given. Done
• Try not to be too abrupt with prose. Done
• In the Breed history section, you say that there are "several theories", but then only give two. Done

Dana boomer (talk) 16:13, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

• Infobox should contain more detail Not done
• A landscape photo of the islands would give some more context Done
• A bit more information on what Q-ac is? or maybe the sentence is self-explanatory Not done
• I don't know what a barrier island is, so a link or explanation there would be handy. Done
• Link to Francis Walsingham Done
• Check that numbers are rendered in numerals or spelled out as appropriate Not done

Bogbumper (talk) 15:36, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments: Mustangs are NOT "generic" feral horses. They are the feral horses of the western United States and the term most certainly should not be used to describe Bankers, etc. Overall, Countercanter has done some good analysis, I suspect that some of the phrasing awkwardness she points out is due to the way the sources themselves were worded, it's tricky to say things in your own words and not change the meaning and intent of the source itself. Dana's comments at PR are also good. Good luck with the fixes, Yohmom! Montanabw^(talk) 23:58, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

General remarks: Yohmom, you are doing great. Don't feel like you have to change something for every comment anyone makes (including me!) Just recognize that where there is a comment, someone was unclear. Sometimes that means a rewrite or rephrase is needed, sometimes it means a fact check is needed, and other times it just means it's after midnight and we are getting rummy! Or we nitpick as a recreational activity! LOL! Montanabw^(talk) 07:10, 30 December 2008 (UTC)