Wikipedia:Notice board for Israel-related topics/Archive2

References

Wikipedia:Notice board for Israel-related topics/References This is a list of reputable websites, books and other encyclopedic resources that you can consult to help you write articles.

Announcements

Votes for deletion

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Luzzatto & Luzzatto --Shuki 22:36, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ed O'Loughlin 2nd attempt -- Avi (talk) 01:20, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Prodded articles

Shavit Bar-On Gal-On Tzin Nov Yagur - crz crztalk 16:59, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

New Israel-related articles

• Portal:Israel/New article announcements (shortcut: Portal:Israel/New)
• Portal:Judaism/New article announcements (shortcut: Portal:Judaism/New)
• Wikipedia:WikiProject Jewish history/New article announcements (shortcut: WP:JEWISH-HIST/New)

FA candidates

• • Tel Aviv--Flymeoutofhere (talk) 17:53, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Old City

I came across an article about one of the gates of the walls of the old city, and was wondering if it would be okay to create a new 'old city' cat and move everything related into it, instead of having these articles in the main cat:

Gates in Jerusalem's Old City Walls Gihon Spring The Golden Gate The Jaffa Gate Jerusalem's Old City walls

Monastery of the Cross New Gate (Jerusalem) Phasael tower Shiloah inscription

The Zion Gate Tower of David Tower of Siloam Tyropoeon Valley Via Dolorosa Well of Souls Western Wall

--Shuki 21:21, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

need for new stubs

I think we should expand the number of Israel stubs, too much is getting lumped into the main one. {{Israel-stub}}

{{Israeli-political-party stubs}} - about 20

{{Israeli-culture-stub}} - about 20

{{Israeli-economics-finance-stub}} - >20

posted here WP:WSS/P as well.

-- Shuki 23:40, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I think it should be singular stub not plural stubs. Also, would {{Israeli-politics stub}} be better than {{Israeli-political-party stubs}}? ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 00:22, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Looks like it's not gonna happen. Not enough stubs, <60. I suppose that I'll retract it. --Shuki 20:58, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

POV pushing in Israel-related science articles

User:Thameen, who has been disruptive on a variety of pages about Palestinian terrorism, has created dozens of articles talking about an "Israel Palestine," complete with a self-created sea-to-sea map of the region. I moved one to Biodiversity in Israel (compare Biodiversity in Israel Palestine), but there are apparently dozens more judging by the links on that page; this appears to be a job for a bot, which is beyond my ken. Cheers. -- FRCP11 08:53, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Category:Israeli members of Knesset

The name of this new cat seems awkward. Wouldn't it be more suitable to simply call it Category:Members of Knesset? --Shuki 19:56, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Definitely more suitable, this really looks weird. Of course MKs are Israelis. --Daniel575 19:29, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I will propose it at the CFD. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 14:58, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Congrats: Category:Members of the Knesset --Shuki 19:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Qassam rocket

Something is brewing to turn this article into relating dry weapons-specification only and leave out the story behind it. For FWIW, I'd appreciate any input on that talk page whichever way you think it should go. Thanks. --Shuki 19:27, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Kfar Gil'adi attack

I know this is a request, but something along these lines is badly needed for inclusion on the Main Page. I may try to start one up, but contributions would be quite welcome. Tewfik^Talk

Foreign relations pages

Please see Israel-Venezuela relations and Israel-New Zealand relations. They could both use the perspectives of Israelis. There appears to be a revived movement to merge the Israel-Ven relations page into Foreign relations of Venezuela so I urge other users to vote against this. Respectfully, Republitarian 19:17, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Israeli military issues

Please see [1]. If you're interested, feel free to use this section as a temporary staging area - unless you know a warmer place. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 23:18, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Provided there are enough editors interested to join / to help, it makes sense to create Israeli military history task force. As for me... currently my primary interests lie elsewhere, but I'll try to help when possible. Bukvoed 19:45, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Nazi POV pushing issues

Check here [2] and the talk page. Stormfront (website) Amoruso 23:50, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

The whole Iranian President issue : [3] Amoruso 01:47, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Palestinian POV pushing issues

user:Palmiro seems intent to blank out any material he doesn't like even when compltely sourced, reliable and verfiable, simply because he doesn't like it, on false pretexts such as "well poisoning". See here : [4]], Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command, Rashid Khalidi, Ghassan Kanafani and more . Amoruso 23:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC) Amoruso 23:50, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Funny you should see the need to post this here, as none of these articles are about Israeli topics and I don't think any of the issues that arose in them were about Israel either (except the relevance of some of Rashid Khalidi's alleged views about Israel). I'd like to be able to make an offer that if you stop POV-pushing in articles about Palestinian topics, I'd stop doing so in articles about Israeli topics - but unfortunately, I've never been doing that, and neither have any of the other long-standing contributors to Palestinian subjects as far as i know. An interesting contrast to your behaviour, perhaps? Palmiro | Talk 21:41, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Of course these issues have to do with Israel. Palestinian terrorism often is. And it's you and other Israel-haters who have tried to whitewash the despicable acts of hamas and PLO against Israel. Amoruso 22:05, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Israeli MIA prisoner exchanges

More than half the article is about Israeli MIAs, not the prisoner exchanges. --Shuki 22:26, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Caste system in Israel

Anyone want to comment on this article besides the need for cleanup? --Shuki 22:36, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

It should at least be moved to Caste system in ancient Israel, but I don't know much about the subject matter to heavily edit the article. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 04:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't "Caste System" most specifically apply to Hindu societies? The wikipedia article about it would suggest not, but there are no refs. Everywhere I've lived in Asia, it was a hindu thing, but I"m not a scholar in the area by any means and could be completely wrong. In any case, there is also a "priestly class" in those societies, Brahimns, but other groups also confined to certain occupations by family of birth, notably the persecuted "untouchables". This article seems like Israeli Aparteid, and attempt to use a politically charged term to demonize Israel in people's minds. Next, we'll be hearing about the Palestinians being "untouchables" in the Israeli Caste System. Ridiculous. Elizmr 19:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Templates

Would anyone be opposed to mirroring the He Wiki's usage of templates to organise regional council's and their constituent communities (like these [5][6])? Please let me know what you think. Cheers, Tewfik^Talk 22:07, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Excellant idea. Do you need help? --Shuki 23:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

This should definitely be done, but IMO at a later stage since we'll just have 95% red links right now. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 00:34, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I've managed to put together a template of all regional councils (which probably needs renaming), as well as individual temps for Gush Etzion Regional Council and Shomron Regional Council, though the Gush Etzion one may have colouration issues, and the Shomron's Hebrew counterpart (interwikiied) has a פרבר distinction which I couldn't find evidence for in the yishuv articles (and two of them explicitly say יישוב קהילתי, though two also make mention of עירוני). I'm finishing Menashe Regional Council, which is the only other council with enough communities to make a template worthwhile for now. I'm also curious about how best to list the councils in the former template; I put the two "Jordan Valley" councils next to each other (instead of Biq'at and Emek), though the Upper and Lower Galilee are separate. I also tried to standardise some of the spelling... Let me know what you think. Cheers, Tewfik^Talk 07:05, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

awesome. I thought why "settlements" mostly made by the excellent awesome work of Shuki didn't have a template yet. Amoruso 17:46, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Finally done, though there seems to be some kind of issue with the width on {{Center District (Israel)}}. Tewfik^Talk 05:44, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

On the contrary, I changed the width there before having it narrow wastes precious vertical space. I have not had the time to change the width on the other templates. I apologize if there was a good reason for the previous width. If not, every related template's width should be changed to a wider variant. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 19:12, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Thats fine. I didn't have any specific reason, and your idea seems to be a good one. Tewfik^Talk 16:10, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

On a different note, I added Category:Tel Aviv District to the {{Tel Aviv District}} in the hopes of automatically categorising the pages it was on, but only one of them (Bat Yam) shows up. Also, some order needs to be made of the following categories: Category:Districts of Israel, Category:Subdivisions of Israel, Category:Regional councils in Israel, Category:Local government in Israel, Category:Settlements in Israel. Cheers, Tewfik^Talk 16:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind - it seems to have sorted itself out, Tewfik^Talk 20:37, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Kfar Kanna

In the "North District" template in Kfar Kanna (and other atricles) there is a red link to Kfar Kama. However, there is an article about Kfar-Kama. Is this the one? Regards, Huldra 05:47, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

No, these are 2 differnt villages Isarig 22:49, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, thanks, but just to make this clear: are there three towns/villages ...or two? I understand that Kfar Kanna and Kfar-Kama are two different places (-the population size is quite different)...but I wondered about the red link (in the template): Kfar Kama, ..is that a third place? Regards, Huldra 23:38, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Btw, I got "involved" in this because I have tried to link up the Knesset-members Jamal Zahalka and Wasil Taha with their home-place...at the moment both link to Kfar Kanna....but with all these equal-sounding names (for me, anyway ;-) ), I´m really not sure if that is correct? Any help is appreciated. Regards, Huldra 23:51, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I see what you are askin. Kfar Kama and Kfar-Kama are the same village. Isarig 00:41, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much for you help; (one redir, and we got rid of all those red links). I assume the Knesset-members place of origin is correct (?)..at least Kfar Kanna is the largest place..if I´m wrong: please correct me. Regards, Huldra 00:59, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Since neither one of them is Circassian, I think it's safe to assume they're from Kfar Kanna. Isarig 01:11, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Mar Elias Educational Institutions

Has anyone heard of an Israeli university of this name, proposed or otherwise? Tewfik^Talk 06:30, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Haven't heard of it, but it certainly isn't a university yet. If anything perhaps a college but this is not verified. --Shuki 06:46, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Birthright Israel

• There is an anon user at the Birthright page adding an extremely PoV "Controversy" section making totally outlandish claims. I came up with a compromise section, but the anon refuses to budge. Would someone please weigh in on the issue? Thanks. -- Chabuk ^{[ T • C ]} 21:11, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Districts of Israel

Admin KhoiKhoi rv any change not to his POV even against the consensus. Please visit talk page to add you opinion. Issue is about the map of the different districts. Israel has decided to name one district it administers - Judea and Samaria. Khoi claims this is POV and insists on keeping a map with Gaza, and UN 'territory' in Lebanon and Syria on the map. You know, maybe this admin is right where everyone else is wrong? --Shuki 22:59, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps. Khoikhoi 00:01, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Shavit Bar-On Gal-On Tzin Nov Yagur

The prod has a point, what is the drop off point for NN? Age of establishment, # of employees? Some folks went through a lot of trouble to put together the Israeli law firm stubs, maybe it's tme for them to expand them? --Shuki 22:20, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Tremping and Tremp Guide

Do these have a place on WP? The tremping should be merged with hitchhiking, the tremp guide deleted, at most put on wikitravel? --Shuki 22:58, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with merging and transwikiing the relevant information. There is also Trempiada which could qualify to remain and possibly make brief mention of the culture. Tewfik^Talk 05:45, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

After seeing Slugging and Liftershalte, I think combining Tremping and Trempiada while transwikiing Tremp Guide to the World Wikia is the best course of action, I'll be doing that soon. Information from he:טרמפ should probably be added as well though. Tewfik^Talk 00:28, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

- I think to compromise, I will put all of the information having to do with tremping in a Tremping Guide page that will include all of it. Putting it all in trempiada is not ideal, and I will take care of it. Please do not delete the information I enter into wikipedia without just consulting me first, which couldn't hurt. - Flowingflag 10:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Law in Israel

This cat is probably going to be cleaned out soon due to a combination of two overeager non-Hebrew speaking editors and lack of law enthusiasts here to improve the stubs so this is probably just for the record. While some of these are NN, others are not. Online documentaion in English is sparse, and law journals are usually subscriber-only if even available on the net. The only current public ratings companies in this industry, D&B and BDI, are also questioned by these editors as NN. Three Afd's (another one has already 'succeeded', 10 others speedied) and other prods:

• AFD Eitan Law Group
• AFD Pearl Cohen Zedek Latzer
• AFD S. Horowitz & Co. - 3rd top firm.
• Ram Caspi - active Israeli businessman
• Michael Fox (lawyer)
• Orna Lin
• Amit, Pollak, Matalon & Co.
• Balter, Guth, Aloni & Co.
• Caspi & Co.
• Danziger, Klagsbald & Co.
• Erdinast, Ben-Nathan & Co.
• Fischer, Behar, Chen, Well, Orion & Co.
• Goldfarb, Levy, Eran, Meiri & Co.
• Gornitzky & Co. - one of the top ten firms
• Isachar Fischer
• Levitan, Sharon & Co.
• M. Firon & Co.
• M. Seligman & Co.
• Meitar Liquornik Geva & Leshem Brandwein
• Naschitz Brandes & Co.
• Peter Gad Naschitz
• S. Friedman & Co.
• Shiboleth, Yisraeli, Roberts, Zisman and Moshe H. Ne'eman, Ben-Artzi & Co.
• Yehuda Raveh & Co.
• Yigal Arnon & Co.
• Zysman, Aharoni, Gayer & Co.
• Zellermayer, Pelossof & Co.

Successful speedy deletes: Baratz, Horn & Co. | Berkman Wechsler Bloom Gazit & Co. | Haim Zadok & Co. | Gilat, Knoller, Graus & Co. | Lipa Meir & Co. | Orna Lin & Co. | Ron Gazit, Rotenberg & Co. | Shenhav, Elrom, Konforti & Shavit | Weksler, Bregman & Co. | Yaacov Salomon, Lipschutz & Co. --Shuki 01:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Categories

Shalom. Category "Transportation of Israel" and its subcategories are now nominated at WP:CFD for renaming to "Transport" form. Please, feel free to comment or vote. - Darwinek 14:37, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

a request for guidelines on how to assess the reliability of a source in matters concerning Israel

I'd like to request that Project Israel determine guidelines on how to evaluate the reliability of a source in matters concerning Israel. Preferrably, these guidelines will include (1) a partial list of newspapers, magazines and organizations, whose publications are identified as reliable sources of information in Israel-related articles, (2) a procedure determining how this list is managed, e.g. how new items are suggested for inclusion, the circumstances under which new items can be added to the list, the criteria of eligibility for being included in the list, etc. I suggest somehow incorporating the Alexa rating into these guidelines. I also think that these guidelines should be worked out in tandem with Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine.

More specifically, i wonder whether the online magazine israelinsider can be considered a reliable source of factual information. Please see discussion on talk:Azmi Bishara#israelinsider - i wonder how adequate it is as a source. Thanks Itayb 13:05, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Yedioth Ahronoth a reliable source for BLPs?

Please see

• Chabad-Lubavitch related controversies#Dovid Jaffe,
• Talk:Chabad-Lubavitch related controversies#Biographies of living persons and Reliable sources.,
• Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Dovid Jaffe: News of the World and Yedioth Ahronoth RS?, and
• Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive1#News of the World and Yedioth Ahronoth for BLP?. -- Jeandré, 2008-01-05t16:16z

Yediot is the most important, most established newspaper in Israel, by miles. It has 10% penetration of the entire Israeli population on a daily basis, compared to 0.3% for the NYT in the USA. There is no translation to explain the prominence of this paper in the Israeli news and political scene. The only comparison might be the BBC in the UK. Almost all major Israeli journalists have worked for the paper, it carries daily columns from major establishment figures in Israel. The Israeli government has a contract with them to print death notices and tenders and so on, not a week goes by without a Yediot story setting the new agenda in Israel, sometimes it seems like all the news stories on TV are sourced in Yediot.The Google news archive gives 25,000 results for "Yediot" almost all of them discussing the Israeli paper of record or its daily stories. As if to make this point the major Israeli story of the past few days is the interview that Yediot did with one George W. Bush, which became a news story around the world, (NYT article on the Yediot interview), and that is only picking yesterday. The importance of this paper eclipses that of any other in Israel or the Jewish World i general, I simply cannot see how this could not pass RS. If Yediot is not a reliable source, there are no Jewish/Israeli reliable sources. Lobojo (talk) 17:06, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

That may be, but from what I've seen Haaretz and The Jerusalem Post are the reliable sources, while Yedioth Ahronoth is not but very popular. The NYT article has "Israel’s largest newspaper", do you have a cite for it being a paper of record? -- Jeandré, 2008-01-05t18:00z

Where do you get the idea that these papers are more reliable? Where "have you seen this"? The Jerusalem Post (no hebrew edition, aimed at the Jewish world) and Haaretz are the only ones with English print editions, which is why they may be at the forefront of your mind. Do you have any sources for the assertion that Yediot "is not" reliable? Just this week it was announced that its editor is to become the ambassador to Egypt - [7], how much more establishment can you get? Here is another AP story sourced to the paper from a week ago - [8]. Another. Another. Hell, even Ehud Olmert writes articles for the paper while a siting prime minister (yesterday). Another from AFP. All these sources are citing Yediot as a source for their own articles, demonstrating that these reliable sources (NYT, AP, AFT, etc) consider it a reliable source. That demonstrates beyond any doubt that Yediot is not only a reliable source but a very very RS. Lobojo (talk) 18:44, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

It amuses me that you replicated your remarks on other pages. Anyway, the undeniable facts are: Yediot has the largest Israeli circulation and that Yediot is a tabloid. Widespread circulation does not mean reliability. From experience, they printed blatant lies, in other instances, they've sent photographers to document one aspect about a story and not the actual event. Their English website, ynetnews, is a substandard translated copy of some of their stories, and then again no guarantee that the the entire article was translated or that the translation is dependable. Frankly, IMO, Yediot is not a RS for opinion/political pieces, maybe just for standard fact references like the population of a city or statistics released by the government. Anything else is suspect of a bias towards anything Jewish/religious and/or right-wing. On the ynetnews article, there used to be a few links to notable articles that was removed. I thought they provided context for the organization. --Shuki (talk) 19:50, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

What makes a source reliable is whether or not other reliable sources quote it not whether it conformed to any particular editors personal biases. As I have shown they are quoted by press agencies and other major papers all on a daily basis, that is what determines reliabilty on wikipedia. There is really no possiblity that Yediot is not a reliable source here. Lobojo (talk) 20:00, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Haaretz is often considered (by non-Israelis) "the New York Times of Israel" (i.e., the "newspaper of record"), but Yedioth Ahronoth is also a reliable source. Every newspaper seems biased to those who disagree with the bias they see in its pages. The appropriate way to handle that is on a case-by-case basis, not by a blanket condemnation of a newspaper as unreliable. If it seems like a newspaper (or any other source) isn't a reliable source for a specific article or a specific fact, editors should discuss that on the Talk page. No mainstream newspaper should be blacklisted across the whole of Wikipedia. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 20:33, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

In this case it is quoting a tabloid, so it would seem like it is not to be used as a source in a BLP. Chocolatepizza (talk) 22:33, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Reuters using Wikipedia as a source does not make Wikipedia a reliable source generally. WP:V: "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material.", so if someone can cite that YA is a RS, or that the tabloid article for Chabad-Lubavitch article is a RS that would be a start. If there are other English language (WP:V#Non-English sources (Manchester)) reliable sources for the info that would be a very good argument for inclusion. WP:V#Exceptional claims require exceptional sources: "Be sure to also adhere to other policies, such as the policy for biographies of living persons and not giving undue weight to minority opinions. The requirement to provide carefully selected qualitative sources for exceptional claims especially applies in the context of scientific or medical topics, historical events, politically charged issues, and biographies of living people." -- Jeandré, 2008-01-06t15:50z

Look, this is not a marginal case. You asked for evidence that other news sources consider Yediot to be areliable source, you asked me to provide that and that is what I did beyond any arguemnet. This was provided for you in abundance. We cannot go around vioding sources in wikipedia simply because they print one thing that we dont like. That is how we work out what sources are good here, and that is what you asked for, in order to establish this source. If the most quoted and agenda-setting Israeli paper, which prints op-ed pieces by sitting PMs is not good enough for you, and all the sources, dozens from the last week alone that show Yediot to be a valid source for stories on all the worlds major news agencies, you would have trouble finding another paper quoted as widely anywhere in the world. It has been established by a number of threads now that Yediot passes RS. Reuters was not using wikipedia as a source (any freelancer that did that would be fired) they were using the user page of a declared individual for information about himself, this is anyway entirely tendentious. I cant really make much sence out of your comment, the sources provided are exelent, Manchester is in England. Lobojo (talk) 18:32, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Municipality merger

Any ideas for how to deal with the substituents of {{Israeli municipality merger of 2003}}? He wiki has chosen to redirect the former articles to the new names where they join the information. Any thoughts? Tewfik^Talk 01:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

posting recomposited map of Israel

Anyone care to comment on ChrisO's suggestion that a UN map be deleted because he did some touch up?

--Shuki 21:45, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I created both versions of the map. One person (so far!) seems to think there's a POV problem - if so, I'm happy to modify it. Please comment on Image talk:Israel and occupied territories map.png, where I've also explained the reasons for the recompositing. -- ChrisO 23:06, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of Category:Wikipedians who support Israel

This category was speedy deleted (see the discussion here, where they basically state that it's retaliation for deletion of a Wikipedians who support Hezbollah category. I've nominated it for undeletion, feel free to comment on that if you wish here. Oren0 00:38, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Jerusalem FAC

Jerusalem is featured article candidate now. Please comment there. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 08:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Transliteration

The debate has restarted! See Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Hebrew). Number 57 13:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Israel's area - noninclusion of Golan and E. Jerusalem

The discussion at Template talk:Israel-InfoBox seems to be quite important, as it is defining Israel as not inclusive of the defacto annexed areas Golan Heights and East Jerusalem, and instead treats them like the West Bank. Tewfik^Talk 07:18, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Portal:Israel

The Israel Portal is now a Featured Portal Candidate. We have undertaken significant work on this over the past few days and have responded to comments/requests on improving it. Please comment at Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Israel/archive1 Flymeoutofhere 08:10, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Straw poll at controversial page

See Talk:Allegations_of_Israeli_apartheid#A_quick_straw_poll for a present initiative to rename the page.--Urthogie 14:00, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Israel-United States military relations

Following the AfD debate and DRV discussion on United States military aid to Israel, I've created Israel-United States military relations in an effort to resolve the outstanding issues. Key points:

• The new article has a wider scope, covering military relations in general, military aid, procurement, joint military activities and significant controversies.
• The article is intended to be the prototype for a series of x-United States military relations articles; I've written it around a template that can be used for any article of this type. See Talk:Israel-United States military relations for an explanation of the template.
• The article parallels the existing Israel-United States relations article as a spinout and expansion of the military relations aspects.
• All the content is referenced. :-) It's a combination of expanded relevant bits from Israel-United States relations, merged content from United States military aid to Israel and a substantial amount of new content, mostly from Jane's.

I've proposed a merger of United States military aid to Israel into Israel-United States military relations (although I should note that I've already merged everything I feel need to be merged).

Please take a look at the new article and leave comments on the talk page. -- ChrisO 10:42, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

El Al Israel Airlines

I have nominated the article for GA Article Status - please comment on the talk page at Talk:El Al -- Flymeoutofhere 18:58, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Redundant categories

Can someone clarify how we should deal with Category:Subdivisions of Israel and Category:Local government in Israel which seem identical, at least on the superficial plane? Tewfik^Talk 19:56, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

'Subdivisions' seems redundant, but then again, both cats are general international cats as well. I haven't checked for relevancy of both to the actual articles listed. --Shuki 18:02, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Mordechai Vanunu on WP:FARC

See above - hahnchen 18:25, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

El Al FA Nomination

I have nominated El Al for a FA status following its recent awarding of GA Status. Please feel free to leave comments at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/El Al. -- Flymeoutofhere 07:09, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

IDF naming conventions

I have started a discussion here and how I think we should name IDF-related articles. Please take a look and comment. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 20:15, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

AfD

I have listed Elie Yossef and Yehuda HaKohen for deletion. These are articles about some obscure activists whose only notability apparently comes from a couple of mentions in Arutz Sheva. They appear to be fairly unnotable, if you feel differently, please prove me wrong by improving their articles.--Doron 10:55, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

• What do people think about prodding or AfDing Friday Night Raw and/or Rif Raf? Tewfik^Talk 02:43, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Concerning Rif Raf, I don't know what the notability criteria for small pubs are. :) I did find a couple reviews on the place. Friday night raw, I'm Afding right now. nadav (talk) 03:12, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
    • Lol! An article from Haaretz on Wikipedia mentions how we have an article on Rif Raf[9]. It's used as an example of how Tel Avivians write on anything and everything, and many of them are meant to promote something.nadav (talk) 03:24, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Hilarious! There probably is room for a short entry one one or both assuming that there are multiple nontrivial mentions in the press etc., but that doesn't seem very likely. By the way, since there is consensus on Category talk:East Jerusalem, what would you like to do? Tewfik^Talk 04:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, now that you've listified the category, I think we should put it for formal discussion at WP:CFD, and see whether people want to delete it or just rename it. I'll list it for deletion, but if people prefer renaming then that's ok too. nadav (talk) 05:38, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

The CFD discussion of Category:East Jerusalem is at [10] nadav (talk) 05:56, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Oil shale

For the article on oil shale, updated information about the current state of Israeli's oil shale industry is needed. Is there any current oil shale mining activities and what is the current status of oil shale-fired power plant, operated by PAMA? What is the status of PAMA Energy? Please answer here or at the talk page of oil shale article. Thank you in advance. Beagel 12:47, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

There was some coverage of that back in 2006[11]. There were environmental objections. The process needs huge amounts of water and the site is in a desert. Google News has a story frrom February 208, "Glazer backs out of Negev oil exploration venture" (link leads to copy protected page that you can only view for 7 seconds without paying.) --John Nagle (talk) 19:22, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Bead_Artseinu AFD

I have listed this page for deletion this movement don't exist except its own homepage.Not notable at all.Shrike 17:39, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

RfC

Your comments are welcome at Talk:Israeli settlement#RfC: Inclusion of Golan Heights settlements.--Doron 20:11, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Noam Federman

Someone may want to take a look at the Noam Federman article. I've tagged it as not adhering to NPOV but I don't know much about him. So someone who knows something about Kahanists could take a look and make it a bit more balanced. Oneworld25 23:34, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Port of Hiafa and Kibbutz Gal On

I expanded the Port of Haifa article. Could someone please re-assess the article? I don't think it is a stub anymore. Also, could someone please assess the Kibbutz Gal On article? I basicly created that page from scratch, and it would be nice of it was assessed. Shalom.Notecardforfree 09:32, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

WP:ANI. Jerusalem categorization

Please see discussion at

• Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive818#Edit warring and POV pushing Category:Jerusalem. --Timeshifter 12:00, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Discussion is now archived here: [12]. --Timeshifter 17:50, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Another deletion attempt concerning various "Palestinian territories" categories

Please see Category:Palestinian territories and:

• Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 August 7. --Timeshifter 00:55, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I also posted this at Wikipedia:Notice board for Palestine-related topics.

Does anyone besides me see how all this POV-pushing looks like to many wikipedia readers? Few readers want to try to correct this obvious systemic bias due to all the incredible amounts of deletion and reversion that goes on in this topic area. So they give up. But in spite of that some more people need to step up and fight for WP:NPOV. And there needs to be some serious blocking and banning (short or longterm) of certain obviously tendentious editors. Some may call me that, but I usually thoroughly discuss any possibly controversial edits on talk pages.--Timeshifter 19:13, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Arbcom case status

At this moment, a significant case is occurring at the page for arbitration proceedings, at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Allegations of apartheid/Workshop, a subpage of Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Allegations_of_apartheid.

A group of editors has been developing an article entitled "Allegations of Israeli apartheid." In response, a group of editors attempted to build a set of articles detailing allegations of "apartheid" in other countries.

In response some editors of the Israel-apartheid article allege that editors who worked on articles about other countries have violated WP:POINT. However editors of articles on other countries say that they were trying to foster some objectivity.

Currently, the ArbCom case has shown somewhat of a pattern of conflicting allegations about various users' conduct, related to both sides in the discpute. This was inevitable, since ArbCom's primary focus is user conduct, not content disputes.

Your help might be useful. Please go to this proceeding and insert your comments on what you feel are the best ways to achieve fairness and balance, in accordance with Wikipedia principles.

If you wish, you may also weigh in at WP:VPP, on the question of whether ArbCom or some other body should address content disputes, in order to somewhat reduce the cycle of accuations and allegations.

Thank you. --Steve, Sm8900 03:01, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

You have been reported for WP:CANVASsing. Number 57 08:05, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Canvassing is not prohibited. It is merely urged to be kept within certain limits. This practice is covered at WP:CANVAS#Excessive_cross-posting, as follows. I do respect your legitimate concerns, and will try to remain aware of any concerns which you express, to keep this process viable and constructive. thanks.

Campaigning A hard and fast rule does not exist with regard to selectively notifying on their talk pages certain editors who have or are thought to have a predetermined point of view, in order to influence a vote. However, the greater the number of editors contacted, the more often this behavior is engaged in, and the greater the resulting disruption, the more likely it is that this behavior will result in warnings and/or sanctions. Some Wikipedians have suggested that informing editors on all "sides" of a debate (e.g., everyone who voted in a previous AfD on a given subject) may be acceptable.

end of post. --Steve, Sm8900 16:06, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Note the table from WP:CANVAS:

	Scale		Message		Audience
Friendly notice	Limited posting	AND	Neutral	AND	Nonpartisan
	↕		↕		↕
Disruptive canvassing	Mass posting	OR	Biased	OR	Partisan
Term	Excessive cross-posting		Campaigning		Votestacking

Your post above is clearly biased/partisan (referring to people who edit the Israeli apartheid article as having a "warped unfair POV"), making it "Disruptive canvassing". Number 57 16:35, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Infobox conversion

Copied from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel#Infobox conversion.

As many of you may have noticed, User:MJCdetroit converted many Israeli municipality infoboxes into global city infoboxes. There are several problems with this:

• No place to put alternate transliterations and other nuances special to Israel (and Palestinian towns if we're at it)
• There was a discussion where consensus was reached that settlements was too strong a word in the case of Israel and should only be used in the cases of West Bank settlements (therefore the name, infobox settlement, is incompatible)
• There's just no good reason to use the global template (it's more difficult to use, more limited for Israel's specific needs, and has absolutely no visible benefits)

What are your opinions? I personally suggest to revert all the changes and keep using the Israeli template (Infobox Israel muni).

-- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 20:59, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree - maintaining the Israel muni Infobox is a better idea. I would add that given the particular data required for locations in Israel, that we consider adding the pushpin map line to the Kibbutz Infobox, as we have in the muni Infobox - this gives us the best means of graphically dispaying the location in Israel, of the kibutz, as we do with towns and cities. And I would also suggest expanding the use of the Kibbutz Infobox for moshavim, as the organizations are quite similar, except for affiliation to Kibbutz organizations - and seeing as many kibbutzim have started voting on provatization, the job of updating descriptive data would be made a whole lot easier. Use of a global infobox is definitely too restrictive for Israeli towns, and like kibbutzim and moshavim, a special Israel muni Infobox makes the most sense (although we might want to communicate with our cohorts on the Hebrew side to compare our techniques, and possibly streamline our templates). I also agree that the use of the term settlement is too restrictive. Using settlement will only bog us down in discussions of how we handle temporary settlements, Israeli vs. Palestinian place names, and political/historical issues of how we term a place. So, in all, I agree with Ynhockey re maintaining the Israel muni Infobox, and hope we can add more unified functions across our place templates StevenBirnam 10:29, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Occupation 101, and Second Intifada

There are some disagreements occurring at Occupation 101 and Second Intifada. Please have a look, and feel free to edit the articles. --Timeshifter 00:32, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Shalom! Eilat article...

I'm trying to expand and bring the Eilat page up to date. Please come and see what we can do to make it even better. Thank you, Shir-El too 00:34, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Pal-Yam article

I have just published a page on Pal-Yam, the naval division of the Palmach Any one who has more data, please feel free to contribute. Toda StevenBirnam 10:10, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Please list the article on the project's new articles page. Interested editors will be able to see it was created. Derwig 15:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)