June 28

edit


Image:Shamanakkanat.jpg (delete|talk|history|logs) - uploaded by Muhammed sonny mercan (notify | contribs).
Image:Imad_Halawa3.jpg (delete|talk|history|logs) - uploaded by Ohalawa (notify | contribs).
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Do you see a difference?

if you don't from here click on them both and you will... --Hornetman16 05:28, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Channon_Christian_accused_murderers2.jpg (delete|talk|history|logs) - uploaded by Chesspieceface (notify | contribs).
  • weak fair use claim because the subjects are still alive and a free alternative is not out of the question. These images do not convey anything not already provided by text. Bleh999 04:16, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Keep. As for the first claim, suspects are in police custody and are not available for photographs. It is unlikely they will be available to the public again. As for the second claim, I think images of the suspects convey a good deal of information that text alone can not convey. Otherwise, why have pictures of anyone? – Quadell (talk) (random) 04:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you, but its still not impossible that a free alternative exists Bleh999 04:44, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But you should still not assume they will be convicted, hence further weakening the fair use claim, besides they are non notable, if they were notable why no biography on them on wikipedia? Bleh999 06:02, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That is actually a point against the validity of the fair use rationale, if this is a non notable news story, why do we need a photograph of each of the suspects? No one has even been convicted yet, there is no biography or articles on any of the suspects on wikipedia - they are non notable Bleh999 06:00, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But at least you admit the only reason to keep is for racial identification, I do not believe that is a valid fair use rational regardless, if you have content disputes, solve them in other ways, rather than needing copyrighted images. Bleh999 06:06, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If this is a non-notable news story, as you assert, then nominate it for deletion -- don't try and do an end run by consuming everyone's time and energy arguing over whether the pictures should be deleted. --Haemo 23:58, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Don't make personal attacks, no one asked you to comment here, so any time wasted of yours is of your own choice. Besides, images are judged on their own merits, it doesn't mean because an image is deleted, the article should be. Bleh999 11:04, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - not replaceable, and substantially important to the issue of race in the article. As I argued on the other image nomination, the pictures of the victims, and the suspects played a role in the controversy surrounding the crime. Essentially to any cogent understanding of the issues surrounding this case. Furthermore, when, in any imaginable universe, are you going to get four suspected murderers to all pose together. The concept of "replaceable fair use" is that a duplicate image, or very similar image, could reasonably be produced. That isn't going to happen -- especially if they're found guilty. --Haemo 23:58, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Where in US fair use laws does it state racial identification is a valid fair use criteria? It seems your reasons for keeping are increasingly POV, you can write in the article they are black, the article is not (at the moment at least) an essay on race and crime, in fact no one has claimed it was a race hate crime, so your main reason for keeping substantially important to the issue of race in the article is completely invalid. Bleh999 11:11, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Why would fair use need to assert that? In this case, the only reason these murders are notable is because of the controversy which surrounds them -- a controversy based on race. It doesn't have to be a hate crime -- merely the fact that the images of the victims/suspects have played a role in the controversy is critical to their inclusion. --Haemo 05:28, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think you are misinformed, the article in its current state does not mention race at all, the only mention of race is the title of one of the refs City leaders say race not an element in Christian, Newsom murders Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom_murder, so why is it a controversy based on race as you assert, the article in its current state does not make that claim. Maybe you should read it before you coment... Bleh999 09:29, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep if the source and copyright holder are verified per WP:NFCC#10a. Right now I'm somewhat skeptical the uploader got them directly from the police department (though it's possible). What it appears is that the image was merged together from the mugshots in the same online Court TV article the victims' picture was sourced to (where they are clearly labelled as mugshots, but could be interpreted as falling under the same copyright as the victim picture). But if they're verified per WP:NFCC#10a, I think it's valid fair use. Videmus Omnia 01:40, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Good point, the uploader did not provide a source for the image(s), if he took it from some website he has to credit it. There is a big difference between valid fair use and required fair use, I'm not convinced that these images are required, especially if the victims photos get deleted. Bleh999 11:16, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete for the same reason as the image of the victims -- violation of NFCC #8. We don't need to see a picture of the suspects to understand that they're black. Additionally the contrast of "smiling white couple" against "thug-looking black people" is a subtle racial bias. howcheng {chat} 21:18, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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Strong delete Per nominator, fails Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria. Garion96 (talk) 12:45, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    • Delete For the reasons I gave at the Wikipedia:Fair use review#27 June 2007. nadav (talk) 17:23, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • Strong keep: What the hell are you on about?! I uploaded that gif long before someone put up the still image, and it served its purpose in the 'Episode format' section. I think a much better picture could be put in place of the still frame at the top, as it does nothing at all to illustrate the show. -- SilvaStorm

Delete Unnecessary fair-use animation. While it does to some degree illustrate the title graphic, some 10 words in the section serve the exact same purpose (well, OK, I didn't understand that it spins slightly, but is that really significant?). It's just not particularly important for the understanding of the article in general (WP:NFCC#8). It's just described in the text, with no real comment or analysis, so could probably also be covered by unacceptable use example no. 15. --Pekaje 12:48, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image:NFSCarbonRace.jpg (delete|talk|history|logs) - uploaded by Gamer112 (notify | contribs).
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Image:Devils 1982 1983 team photo.jpg (delete|talk|history|logs) - uploaded by Cholmes75 (notify | contribs).
  • Primary reason: the image does not significantly contribute to the readers' understanding of the topic of New Jersey Devils, it merely decorates the article, fails WP:NFCC #8. Secondary reason: the image was recently orphaned, fails WP:NFCC #7. I first expressed my concerns about the fair use rationale on June 26, 2007, but the {{dfu}} tag was removed after the fair use rationale was changed. I described my concerns as: "An ordinary group portrait does not display a historic event, and therefore I believe the fair use rationale is not explaining why this non-free image qualifies as fair use in New Jersey Devils." — Ilse@ 17:20, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Image now on 1982-83 New Jersey Devils season (currently undergoing creation & expansion); fair use rationale as follows:

  • Low resolution
  • Picture is of historic nature: first ever New Jersey Devils team, which is clearly significant moment in the history of the franchise
  • Is only being used on this page... I can understand lack of justification for the main NJ Devils page to a certain extent (although I think fair use paranoia runs rampant on this site and hurts us more than it helps us)

The point is that this image shouldn't be deleted; it's got good fair use rationale now and isn't orphaned. Anthony Hit me up... 12:16, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - "Historic" is relative to the subject. In this particular instance, the 1982-83 Devils team was the first ever to play in New Jersey, signifying the rebirth of the franchise. Considering the move to NJ was chosen as one of the top 25 moments of the team's last 25 years on their website, I find it hard to say the first team in NJ is not historic to Devils fans. Of course it's not "historic" like Iwo Jima, that's beyond apples & oranges, that's like apples and pencils. Anthony Hit me up... 10:15, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The photograph is taken in the past, but the photograph is not really a historic photograph, on this point I agree with Howcheng. - Ilse@ 09:58, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Image:NanjingMassacre.jpg (delete|talk|history|logs) - uploaded by Johnnyboyca (notify | contribs).
  • Uploader appears to be abscent. Image purports to be of the Nanking Massacre, yet no real evidence has been supplied either by users or on source links as to this fact. Equally originally copyright was claimed to have expired, but after requested detailed proof for this, tag was changed to fair use. There is still no information on copyright status. Picture is of low quality and it is difficult to ascertain whether this was part of the events at Nanking, or took place somewhere else. Just because a source may claim it is from Nanking is hardly conclusive, as websites tend to copy each other without researching any facts themselves. — John Smith's 18:47, 28 June 2007 (UTC).[reply]
  • Keep - Image qualifies under fair use as no new photo may be produced for the Nanking Massacre. Source provided for the image claims that it is of the Nanking Massacre. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 18:51, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Whether there is any "new photo" available is irrelevant. The issue is that no firm copyright information has been provided and that the content of the picture is unclear and not directly substantiated by any sources mentioned. John Smith's 18:53, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • KeepThis is the same problem we have with photographs of the holocaust, the photographer is often unknown for good reasons, I will try and find out more about these images, but in any case they are PD-China PD-japan or even PD anonymous since 70 years have passed in most cases. Bleh999 20:19, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. This one is a little different because it can be sourced to a reliable source (the U.S. National Archives). However, NARA says it's not the Nanjing Massacre, but from Chungking instead (June 5, 1941, as opposed to late 1937/early 1938 when the massacre occurred). So this should be deleted and re-uploaded under a different name and put in a different article. howcheng {chat} 21:23, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If not deleted, should be renamed IMO. John Smith's 21:33, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I am the one that corrected the source on that image, only the image name is misleading, however if it is appropriately captioned, it is not a big deal, however if you want to delete it, we can re upload a higher res version from the NARA website. Bleh999 21:35, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Technical issues prevent us from renaming an image; to accomplish this goal, the image needs to be deleted and reuploaded. howcheng {chat} 21:47, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Then it certainly needs to be deleted - the current title is far too misleading. John Smith's 21:48, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note that the photographer is still 'unknown' even if I changed the caption. It still an anonymous work. Bleh999 23:18, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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