Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 September 12

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September 12

TP topic stuck in limbo between "Publish" and "Leave Page" at Viking Arms and Armour

Hi, I edited the article, with bad formatting. Explained the edits, refs and formats on the TP, but no matter how often, nor how hard, I hit the 'publish' button, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Viking_Age_arms_and_armour doesn't publish. 'Elp! T 2A02:FE1:E16B:CC00:A8CF:DB8B:4D5D:FD8F (talk) 01:34, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I see no recent changes to the formatting of Viking Age arms and armour. What user name or IP address did you have when you made those changes? Maproom (talk) 06:43, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi, it's not the article, it's the talk page. Didn't change formatting, just tried to post a topic, which seemingly didn't make it on to the talk page. When I open the page, my new section ("Foreign origins II") is stuck in draft mode. Dunno about any IP, Wiki gives me that string you see after the T, which is me. T 2A02:FE1:E16B:CC00:A8CF:DB8B:4D5D:FD8F (talk) 10:23, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

If you made external links then try placing them in <nowiki>...</nowiki> in source mode to deactivate them. You can also try to cancel the edit and start over by copy-pasting from the old attempt. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:54, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi, thx, that was it, <nowiki>worked! Problem solved. Thx agn. T 2A02:FE1:E16B:CC00:A8CF:DB8B:4D5D:FD8F (talk) 11:09, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Bromyard

Is reference 67 done correctly ? - I am unsure - I'm sorry to have to ask, but I still am unsure at times after all these years. Sorry. 175.38.37.197 (talk) 03:18, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

The format looks fine, but I doubt how reliable a personal website can be. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 03:39, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

What I don't understand is how your addition, however well referenced it might be, of a pile of material about Luptons -- "Lupton's children, William Darnton Lupton (1909-1915) and Joan (1911-1981) were the half-brother and sister of Sir Reginald Anthony Hungerford 7th Baronet (1920-2010)" -- benefits an article that's ostensibly about a town. -- Hoary (talk) 22:30, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Signatures

Bit of a less relevant question, but I want to ask how to customise the signatures? I've seen the setting itself, but is there a list of wikimarkup code or something that I can use to customise it? Thanks! Henry (talk) 05:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@Henry Herrmann-Friedrich: Wikipedia:CUSTOMSIG has what you want, and it accepts any wiki markup as far as I can tell. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 05:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

do you allow ai generated content

say i ask chatgpt or another app to write about a specific topic that passes notability criteria. is this allowed in English wikipedia? i am interested in legal [cipyright] perspective and also the local policies in this wiki. thanks in advance. Gryllida (talk, e-mail) 11:20, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

It's only classified as an essay but see Wikipedia:Large language models which has many contributors. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:03, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@Gryllida Wikipedia articles are always based on published sources, which we as editors have to summarise in our own words. The problem with LLM is that they hallucinate, i.e. they write stuff that looks plausible but which often has entirely fictitious sources. All these models were trained on Wikipedia's corpus, which makes them even more dangerous as they "know" what an article here looks like. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

i can find sources and ask LLM to summarise them. would this be allowed? i could note in edit summary i used an LLM, and do it from my account. Gryllida (talk, e-mail) 19:19, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

They can still add hallucinations or warp the meaning. At this point, it's probably less effort to just summarise it yourself. Cremastra (talk) 20:16, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

How to request a review for the article in sandbox?

I mean, is there a way to ask someone to have a look at this one and tell how to proceed with the approval for publishing? User:ThePhoenix4/sandbox ThePhoenix4 (talk) 11:26, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Tag it with {{subst:submit}}. First edit it though, in first paragraph note why is this topic notable, it helps to have that question answered. WP:Notability. you can also ask a question here. Gryllida (talk, e-mail) 11:34, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I suspect that the company that now owns Thomas Cook is notable. But you sandbox content does not establish this. Some of the references aren't independent; most of them simply state that eSky has bought Thomas Cook, without significant discussion of eSky. Its language is somewhat promotional. Even the caption of the (very poor) picture of the CEO repeats the statement of the takeover. The impression given is that the Cook takeover is eSky's only claim to notability. I would recommend that you start again from the beginning, by finding three or four reliable independent (not based on press releases or on what an eSky spokesperson has said) sources with in-depth discussion of eSky. At least two of them should be about eSky itself, not the takeover. Then base your draft in what thoose sources say. Maproom (talk) 12:04, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@Maproom, Hi, thanks for sharing your thoughts on in — really appreciate your help! There are some other sources, but since those are mostly in Polish, I'm afraid these wouldn't be enough to meet the independency terms. I have only found up-to-date and reliable information about eSky - not coming from their website - with the takeover of Thomas Cook topic. If I can cite Polish-language sources, then perhaps I can diversify the references. Looking forward to your advise ThePhoenix4 (talk) 12:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

ThePhoenix4: you can establish notability by citing Polish-language sources, if no English equivalent is available. Maproom (talk) 13:07, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

There is a pl Wikipedia article at pl:eSky.pl, which has 46 references. Content translated from another Wikipedia should be acknowledged in an edit summary as explained at Help:Translation. TSventon (talk) 13:36, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Wow, had no idea, but fixed that already :) Would you check please when you have a minute? The fact is that I didn't translate the Polish article, but fully adapted the English version to an English reader, leaving only English source to make it available for everyone to understand. ThePhoenix4 (talk) 14:19, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

So how much impact would it have if, let's assume, half of the cases were Polish sources? ThePhoenix4 (talk) 14:20, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi, you only need to say you translated a Polish article if you actually translated a Polish article. I was informing you in case you wanted to translate material in the future. Also {{Translated page}} would go on the talk page, not the article page.

If necessary you can use 100% foreign language sources, but it is helpful to readers to include English language sources where available. TSventon (talk) 14:42, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

reliable source for WP

Can the NEWS link below be considered a reliable Source available on WP? www.skynews.com.au/

References

That source is listed at WP:RSPS as being one to use very cautiously: see also Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_448#Sky News Australia_and_the_Women's_boxing_controversy. As always, it depends somewhat on how you want to use the source. We have a specific place to ask these sorts of questions: see WP:RS/N. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Would somebody please help me edit?

 Courtesy link: Draft:Henrique Gabriel

Hi all! I'm new at editing on wikipedia and my first task is to help a friends whose father was a portuguese arist and died 1 year ago.

I do speak english german and portuguese fluently and have studied some techniques but i'm struggling with the templates. I'm kindly asking for some help on my draft on Henrique Gabriel.

Kindest regards CatPer9 (talk) 14:39, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I have tidied it up a little bit, you will need to show how they pass the criteria at WP:NARTIST. Theroadislong (talk) 14:47, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, CatPer9. I'm sorry to be negative, but "to help a friend" associated with the subject is a bad reason to edit Wikipedia. It sounds as if you think that an article about somebody is for that person's benefit (or their family's), but it is not, except incidentally. (See an article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing).

Suppose in your researches you found some sources that were extremely critical of Gabriel. As a friend, you might want to ignore these, but as a Wikipedia editor, it would be your duty to consider them, and quite possibly to report what they said in the article - which might not please your friend.

In fact, looking at your draft, I see very little about what others have said about him. But that is what a Wikipedia article should be about, not just a list of things they have done. Wikipedia has little interest in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is almost entirely interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. If enough material is cited from independent sources to establish notability, a limited amount of uncontroversial factual information may be added from non-independent sources. ColinFine (talk) 17:22, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

LINOLEIC ACID

what is Linoleic Acid Bonardyfam (talk) 20:06, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Have you read the article Linoleic acid ? - Arjayay (talk) 20:07, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

pronunciation keys

Many, many Wiki articles have a pronunciation key in International Phonetic Alphabet, which is super, but...when one clicks on this key it is tough to remember the entire original set of symbols. It would be SUPER if the key popped up as a new small window so one could readily use it. Thanks. 24.240.34.222 (talk) 21:06, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

As I view it, the article Kamala Harris starts "Kamala Devi Harris^[b]". When I place my cursor over the "^[b]", I'm told "Pronounced /ˈkɑːmələ ˈdeɪvi/". When I place the cursor over the "eɪ" within that, a tooltip tells me that it's pronounced like the "a" in "face". Do you not see this? Or, if you do, how is it ineffective or unhelpful? Or if it seems OK to you, are you saying that it, or something like it, isn't implemented on enough articles? -- Hoary (talk) 22:20, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@Hoary: Tooltips aren't visible on mobile devices. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:09, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

The questioner's question was not tagged as being made on a mobile device. Marcus Markup (talk) 19:08, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Good point, Andy Mabbett. As the ability to touchtype with nine fingers and one thumb is, for me, just one of the blazingly obvious advantages of my computer over my phone, I only use the latter when in the train or in bed, and tend to forget that others use their phones for much more. ¶ 24.240... (if you're reading this): Try it on a computer. If the help that the computer gives you resembles what you'd like your phone to give you, search for IPA through the archives of Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) (see the search box within the beige box near the top of that page); if you find nothing helpful there, then ask there about how something similar might be achieved on a phone. -- Hoary (talk) 22:28, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Hoary, I think you are a great editor, but I am an editor and administrator who has made roughly 100,000 smartphone edits and I remind you that the vast majority of devices worldwide capable of editing Wikipedia are smartphones. Desktop computers are a small minority of such devices. Smartphone editors do not need to to be told that it is "blazingly obvious" that they are going about things the wrong way. First because that is false and second because it is insulting to smartphone editors. People like me by the billions all over the world produce written content on smartphones on massively popular websites and social media platforms every hour of every day. We do not need to be told how many fingers and thumbs to use by people who do not understand the process and appear to be biased against it. Cullen328 (talk) 07:57, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Umm, Cullen328, I'm not sure about your evaluation of me as editor; but the rest, yes, agreed. However (cough), didn't you notice the "for me" within what I wrote? On reflection, yes, I agree with my hours-ago self: for me, editing Wikipedia on my computer is hugely preferable to doing so on my phone. When in the train, I often see people busily typing messages and the like on their phones and envy their ability to do so at such speed. For all I know many of them have access to computers on which they can do the same thing but prefer their phones. Each to their taste (or device). -- Hoary (talk) 11:42, 14 September 2024 (UTC)