Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/ParkGuellOkupas

"Kasa de la Muntanya", Barcelona edit

Original

Reason: Heeding calls for more noms by Wikipedians... for me, this photograph evokes the scale of the housing crisis gripping not just Barcelona but most Spanish cities. For Squatting, it illustrates a topical reaction to the crisis and depicts Barcelona's most famous squat in the context of the City's sprawling metropolis.
Proposed caption: Squatting in Spain is a highly politicized activity as much as a way of living, with political slogans and symbols often visible on occupied buildings, which range from small houses to abandoned factories. Influenced by the British Levellers, the okupa movement began during a housing crisis in the early 1980s and grew during the 1990s, due to the urban regeneration surrounding the 1992 Summer Olympics. Property speculation, gentrification and house price inflation continue to catalyze okupa activism.
Articles this image appears in: Squatting
Creator: Mick Stephenson

Support as nominator mikaul^talk 01:26, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support Adam Cuerden ^talk 02:57, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
comment it doesn't really illustrate Squatting they way I would expect, such as an image like this one does. That house looks pretty well kept. Debivort 04:19, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Support >meh< it illustrates very nicely an aspect of squatting I didn't appreciate. Debivort 05:08, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - not illustrative. And the caption is an original research/POV rant.--Svetovid 08:16, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- It's not illustrative of Squatting in general, which is why it appears at the Spain section of the article. It illustrates squatting in a uniquely Spanish context. There is, at least, one English-language secondary source to back up the section (which is the basis for the caption) and the rest is derived from es: and Spanish news sources. I guess these should ideally be sourced in English, but there's no OR in the caption at all, that I can see. mikaul^talk 10:37, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose agree with Svetovid, nothing jumps out and says im the part illustrating squatting --Childzy ¤ Talk 08:48, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I don't think this is an example of Wikipedia's finest. Also, the caption needs to at least explain the image, as it currently just gives information about Okupa activism. After looking at the picture I honestly was left with the impression that Squatting was either setting up a shooting range on top of a building, or else using a building to display activist messages.--Puddyglum 17:14, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Maybe I should amend the caption, but it's already very long. As I stressed above, the image depicts Spanish squatting, which is a highly politicized activity as much as a way of living. A distinctive part of that involves daubing political slogans all over occupied buildings, which can be the size of entire factories. Other examples of this appear in a gallery in the article section. So the impression you were left with was exactly the one I was hoping for. The shooting thing is typical okupa humour, contra-culture, contra-tourism, contra-you-name-it.. mikaul^talk 09:39, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - "[This] image depicts Spanish squatting, which is a highly politicized activity as much as a way of living. A distinctive part of that involves daubing political slogans all over occupied buildings, which can be the size of factories." That seems like a start for a better caption, IMO.--Puddyglum 18:11, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - Ok, I've found a reasonable source for that, added it to the article and amended the (shortened) caption. mikaul^talk 00:11, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support. This is the best illustrative image of squatting I have ever seen. We see the Squat itself, and then the sprawling urban mass of Barcelona behind it, essentially cause and effect in one image. The large Spanish cities are very crowded, and squatting is a byproduct of this. The quality is fine, although the caption rather long. I don't see any POV in it at all, though. NauticaShad e s 02:27, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support. Though, "can be the size of factories" is kind of midleading, as the reason for the size, is that they ARE (former) factories. Murderbike 00:39, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Noted: caption tweaked. mikaul^talk 01:20, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support EllenS 12:40, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I would just comment that this image is very easy to replicate. Whenever you visit Parc Guell, you walk past a little lookout which is the exact viewpoint shown in this image. Looks to me like someone just took a panoramic view of Barcelona then afterwards decided it illustrated squatting well. Otherwise I don't really see the need for so much background and relatively little emphasis on the building itself. Stevage 07:04, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- While I value your opinion on the enc value of the image and its background, I'm not sure your second-guessing my inspiration or motive behind the shot has quite so much value. Nor do I think replacability is a major criterion for this kind of shot – or at least it's never been an issue in the past – unless the tech quality is poor. Incidentally, the shot I have from nearer street level doesn't provide anything like the relevance and context of this more elevated viewpoint. mikaul^talk 19:25, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Don't take so much offence. Replaceability is an issue whenever the photo is of a major landmark, like the current Whitehouse nomination. Anyway, it's interesting comparing your image to an almost identical one I have from when I was there:
    - They've repainted the roof: in my one there is no red outline around the letters Okupa Y Resiste, and the white is more faded
    - They've painted over a mural: in mine, there is a mural on the wall behind the word Okupa showing what looks like a tree with some teeth like a mouth over it. In yours it's been whitewashed over.
    - The "tourist season" sign is new.
    - The wall behind the tourist sign, with the green shadecloth has been painted. In mine it is grey cement with some graffiti, including an A in a circle and what looks like the words "funf air far..."?
    - You've used a bit more telephoto, which is good.
    - The actual image quality is better on yours, which you'd expect from the D70s vs my compact.
  - Overall I'm still not that convinced about the composition of this image illustrating "squatting" as well as it illustrating "Barcelona". Stevage 06:01, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ha - they keep themselves busy alright! No offence taken, just surprised at your reaction. The painting and stuff is fairly unique to the okupa squatters (and hence practically all Spanish squatting) as they're primarily anarchists with a point to make about property and ownership. The roof is where most of the slogans are. That was the real motivation behind the shot; the okupa HQ overlooking the urban sprawl, forcing some realism on the otherwise rosy view of the city. That and the witty "tourist" banner, truth be told. I've found several similar shots while I was researching the article, not surprising given the location; really more surprising that such an illustrative scene wasn't already in the encyclopedia. mikaul^talk 08:06, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

- - - Perhaps there should be an article on the squat itself? It must be pretty famous. Incidentally, do you know what the phrase means exactly? Is it an imperative (with deliberate misspelling), as in "Occupy and resist!"? For that matter, is it Spanish or Catalan? Stevage 14:05, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It is definitely an imperative, and the misspelling is intentional as well. Anarchists in Spain often use "K" for any spellings that would otherwise require a "C" in solidarity with the Basque language and its intentional use of "K" to separate itself from Castillian. And the word "Okupa" goes for Castillian and Catalan, but the phrase itself is in Castillian. The Catalan would be "Okupa i resisteix" (with the misspelling). Murderbike 17:38, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No consensus MER-C 09:13, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]