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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Timeline of the 2009 Atlantic hurricane season/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 18:09, 28 February 2010 [1].

Timeline of the 2009 Atlantic hurricane season edit

Nominator(s): Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:55, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Toolbox

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel that it meets all Featured List criteria, including alt text. All thoughts and comments are welcome. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:55, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. Mm40 (talk) 14:06, 13 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Juliancolton
*Oppose (will support once TRM's review is dealt with) - Looks decent, but it needs some work:
  • The 2009 Atlantic hurricane season was a below-average year, the quietest since the 1997 season, during which nine tropical storms formed. - "Below-average" will mean nothing to the average reader.
It's easily understood in the first sentence of the second paragraph. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The season officially began on June 1, 2009 and ended on November 30;[2] however, a pre-season storm, Tropical Depression One, led to the season's starting on May 28. - Unnecessarily wordy and cumbersome.
Fixed Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The season's last storm, Hurricane Ida dissipated on November 10, resulting in the season ending within normal boundaries. - Same as above.
Fixed Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • of which nine intensified into tropical storms—an average season has ten tropical storms[5]— - Would this not be better in parenthesis?
Just going by previous FLC's for timelines. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Still go ahead and fix it. :P –Juliancolton | Talk 03:01, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The inactivity throughout the basin was linked to the formation of an El Nino which increased wind shear throughout the basin. - Two "throughout the basin"s not needed.
Fixed Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hurricane Bill was an unusually large storm, ranking fifth in the basin, and was also the season's strongest, attaining winds of 135 mph (215 km/h). - Fifth what?
Clarified Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The bit about landslides from Ida is unnecessarily detailed and not really relevant.
Removed Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It's piped to a different term that has the same general meaning. I've done so in accordance to requests from other editors in previous FACs. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • 8:00 p.m. AST (0000 UTC on August 15) needs a full stop at the end of the sentence.
Not sure what you mean Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • 1:00 a.m. EDT (0600 UTC) – Tropical Depression Four develops over the extreme northeastern Gulf of Mexico, roughly 60 mi (95 km) west-southwest of Sarasota, Florida.[13] - Don't you mean southeastern...?
Corrected Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • 2:00 a.m. AST (0600 UTC) – Tropical Storm Grace forms out of a previously extratropical system roughly 135 mi (225 km) west of Lajes, Azores, becoming the northeasternmost forming tropical cyclone in the Atlantic basin on record. - A couple redundant words could probably be removed.
Condensed Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The tenth tropical depression of the season forms roughly 775 mi (1,250 km) east of the Lesser Antilles. - Was it not named TD 10?
No, it was immediately declared Tropical Storm Henri. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Probably a good idea to clarify that then. –Juliancolton | Talk 03:01, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "See also" should go before "References".
Moved Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
JasonRees got it Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:35, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

–Juliancolton | Talk 22:15, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:12, 31 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Done Cyclonebiskit (talk) 15:44, 31 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 07:49, 12 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • Probably mentioned this once (or thrice) before, but the caption saying "storms" is a little confusing when this is about "hurricanes"...
Can't really say hurricanes as there are lower classifications of storms in the map, I changed it to tropical cyclones to be a bit more general. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 19:46, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • As a non-expert, I need to understand what "a below-average year" really means.
  • " (an average season has ten tropical storms[5])" ah, now that's what I was looking for, perhaps as a footnote rather than this awkward parenthetical note. And move that ref to outside the ).
Moved to footnote Cyclonebiskit (talk) 19:46, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The two most notable storms ..." according to...?
Specified Cyclonebiskit (talk) 19:46, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "thus remain on the list of names for the 2015 season" - this isn't logical to a non-expert. Why not the 2010 season? I guess they rotate names on a six-yearly basis...
Added footnote about this Cyclonebiskit (talk) 19:46, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Timeline graphic needs en-dashes for speed ranges.

The Rambling Man (talk) 20:41, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:46, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)
  • "The season officially began on June 1, 2009 and ended on November 30;[2] however, Tropical Depression One formed on May 28." The logic is confusing. You might say something like "Although Tropical Depression One formed on May 28, the season officially began on June 1, 2009 and ended on November 30.[2]" (italics not necessary; I just put them there for emphasis).
Changed Cyclonebiskit (talk) 19:50, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The inactivity throughout the basin was linked to the formation of an El Nino which increased wind shear." Comma after "Nino". And shouldn't "Nino" have a tilde on the second n?
Fixed Cyclonebiskit (talk) 19:50, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Instead of using >= or <= to signify greater/less than or equal to, why don't you use the proper symbols that can be inserted (see below the edit summary box). You might look into fixing this on other timeline pages too.
Fixed Cyclonebiskit (talk) 19:50, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I was asked to comment here about the WP:ACCESSIBILITY of the diagram at Timeline of events. This diagram is implemented via the following HTML: 

<map name="d38f5fab405c1e281bb53e6aff690ff0" id="d38f5fab405c1e281bb53e6aff690ff0">
<area shape="rect" href="/wiki/Hurricane_Ida_(2009)" coords="694,87,747,107" title="Hurricane Ida (2009)" />
...
<area shape="rect" href="/wiki/Saffir%E2%80%93Simpson_Hurricane_Scale" coords="602,170,821,190" title="Saffir–Simpson Hurricane Scale" /></map><img usemap="#d38f5fab405c1e281bb53e6aff690ff0" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/d38f5fab405c1e281bb53e6aff690ff0.png" /></p>

Unfortunately when a visually impaired user visits this, they are given relatively little information about the image. The image has no alt text, and the W3C validator report lists several errors, all having to do with lack of alt text. Apparently the EasyTimeline feature was designed without accessibility in mind. Assuming that EasyTimeline can't be fixed easily, I suggest redoing the timeline as text, or perhaps as an SVG image or an image map, as that can be done accessibly. Eubulides (talk) 19:19, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Have you asked the user or another user who knows how to work the easy timeline feature about adding alt text to it? Jason Rees (talk) 00:05, 16 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
What's the status of this issue? Dabomb87 (talk) 22:21, 21 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I would sort it out myself but the HTML issues are in the actual Software and not the timeline. so we are left with a few options 1) add an SVG image, or table 2) Imagemap it 3)Find someone who is able to sort out the issues in the software timeline. or 4) Leave as is Options 1&2 would ruin the effect of the diagram in my opinion as in the 2009 PTS we are using the timeline as a contents section for the storms section as otherwise the contents list would be far too big. Option 3 - Erik Zachte who i know has access to it seems to be rather busy to sort it out and i dont know anyone else who could sort it so i personally would go with option 4 as i think the issue is unworkable but ill leave it to the main editors to figure it out.Jason Rees (talk) 23:48, 21 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well, my opinion is that the timeline, while very helpful, is not absolutely essential to readers' understanding; i.e., they can get the gist of the article without the aid of the timeline. Therefore, I think it's best to leave it as is and wait for the developers to come up with a fix. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:52, 21 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I think this is an issue that goes beyond this particular article. It obviously requires extension-wide changes (and it is indeed a fairly early extension, from 2004), so I'd rather we not go messing around with it for now. I'm also in agreement with Dabomb. –Juliancolton | Talk 00:00, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support Mm40 (talk) 21:39, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Mm40 (talk)
Comments solely on FL issues, I can't weigh in on content. With regards to the timeline issue, I agree some sort of ALT text would be nice, but, like Dabomb said, it's not necessary to understand the article, and shouldn't prevent promotion. Mm40 (talk) 17:41, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first three notes need references. Assuming you're getting them from the first ref (NOAA), the first note doesn't match. This article says "ten tropical storms" while NOAA says "11 named storms"
  • "the fewest since the 1997 season"
  • Can you explain in a footnote why the season "officially" started a couple days after Tropical Depression One?
  • It should be rather obvious. The depression formed outside the official bounds of the hurricane season, specified as starting on June 1 and ending on November 30 by the National Hurricane Center. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 19:17, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the second sentence, you might want to put the year after the first date (May 28) rather than June 1.
  • A comma is needed after Ida in the first paragraph.
  • Again, explain why there season ended 20 days after Ida dissipated.
  • Very picky, I know, but you have both [footnote][reference] (paragraph 2) and [reference][footnote] (paragraph 1)
  • The second paragraph's first sentence needs commas
  • Link Bill in the second paragraph
  • "on the list of names for the 2015 season" → "available for the 2015 season" the list is explained in the footnote, which comes after this sentence, so you shouldn't refer to the list yet
  • Reworded per your suggestion but I'm not sure what you mean with the second part Cyclonebiskit (talk) 19:17, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why "as well as dissipations" instead of simple "and dissipations"?
  • In the EasyTimeline, you may want to remove the colors for Categories 5 and 1 as they aren't used. Your call, though
  • The categories are all there by standards. We just have to have the whole scale there for comparisons. Also best not to skip categories as people may ask what is between Tropical Storm and Category 2. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 19:17, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link Bill in the entry for August 15?
  • Did Bill really go from Bermuda to Newfoundland in one day?
  • The storm took almost two days to do so, but it passed by Bermuda early on August 22 and made landfall in Newfoundland late on August 23 so by just looking at the dates, it may look like one day. That's why the times are there :) Cyclonebiskit (talk) 19:17, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "regains hurricane-status for" shouldn't be hyphenated
  • Either link none or all storms in the image captions
  • Dates in image captions need non-breaking spaces
  • You link the NHC in reference 3 but you don't link any other publishers
  • There's both "Eric Blake" and "Eric S. Blake"; I'd prefer having the middle initial in all.

I'll support once these issues are resolved. Mm40 (talk) 17:41, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Truco
General
  • Have you notified User:12george1 of this nomination as he has had a significant amount of edits to this article as well.
Alt text, dabs, and external links check out fine.
Lead
  • As a result of the minimal damage caused by storms throughout the season, no names were retired from and thus remain available for the 2015 season - is the 'from' supposed be there? When I read the sentence, the 'from' seems awkward there.
As established within the Tropical Storm Grace FAC - the sentence about the retirement needs removing.Jason Rees (talk) 02:37, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
RemovedJason Rees (talk) 02:39, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is the "Instituto Nacional de Recursos Hidráulicos" the title of the webpage or the publisher? If its the title, then this ref has no publisher.--Truco 503 02:24, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Umm theres no reference with the "Instituto Nacional de Recursos Hidráulicos" in this article. Jason Rees (talk) 02:37, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, I was looking at the wrong list, sorry about that. The only problem that remains is contacting the other contributor to the article.Truco 503 02:54, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
DoneJason Rees (talk) 02:56, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support--Truco 503 01:58, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support once my only comment has been dealt with - The lead currently contradicts the article in saying that Hurricane Ike was the only system to make landfall in the USA when Claudette made landfall in the US.Jason Rees (talk) 03:58, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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