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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Muddy Waters discography/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 03:30:03 24 September 2019 (UTC) [1].

Muddy Waters discography edit

Muddy Waters discography (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Ojorojo (talk) 15:33, 17 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've recently expanded this discography to include inline citations for each release, added several charting albums, and revised the lead. Muddy Waters is one of the most important blues artists of all time and I hope to make this a featured list. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:33, 17 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from – zmbro (talk) 04:27, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments from zmbro
  • Why do you have Waters' guitar in the infobox? WP has a couple images of him available so why not this imageof him?
    • An IP editor added it almost four years ago and it reminded me of an album cover. I used the image you linked for the "Hoochie Coochie Man" article. It is also used in several other WP articles and I hoped for some variety. Maybe these lesser used images[2][3] can be substituted. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:03, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Actually didn't know how many images of Waters WP had. I think the second one should do just fine! – zmbro (talk) 00:06, 20 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could you add his total discography in one sentence? (similar to other FL discographies such as Taylor Swift discography, Led Zeppelin discography, and Katy Perry discography)
    • Done, but prefaced with his primary labels (there's a lot of secondary/gray market releases & re-packages out there). Most of the recent megastars have much tighter control of their releases. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:36, 20 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Don't think you need to say "Muddy Waters" every time in the lead, "Waters" should be just fine
    • MOS:SURNAME includes "People who are best known by a pseudonym should be subsequently referred to by their pseudonymous surnames, unless they do not include a recognizable surname in the pseudonym (e.g. Sting, Snoop Dogg, The Edge), in which case the whole pseudonym is used." I argued that "Waters" may be seen as a common surname (Talk:Muddy Waters/Archive 2#Waters vs Muddy Waters in text), but one editor strongly disagreed and frequently changes Waters to Muddy Waters. I'll change it to Waters throughout and we'll see what happens. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:03, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speaking of the lead, to me it seems a little short. First paragraph is only two sentences and the second is only three. Is there anything else you could add about specific singles/albums that would be relevant enough for the lead?
    • Expanded and added some of his most famous. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:36, 20 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Are the exact release dates for many of his songs/albums not known? The WP page for Hard Again lists release date as January 10, 1977 but here it just lists 1977. Same thing with The Last Waltz and Breakin' It Up, Breakin' It Down (having exact release dates). Is there a reason for that?
    • They weren't in the sources I used for the list, but will added the sources from the articles you suggested and continue to look for more. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:03, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • It appears that some of the dates are copied from AllMusic.com (only its reviews are reliable sources). The more I looked, the more conflicting dates I found. I added some from the printed All Music Guide to the Blues as footnotes. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:36, 20 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the tables, make sure songs/albums that start with "A, An, The, "", etc." are sorted by the leading word (per WP:Sorting)
  • On The Blues of Otis Spann, "Label:Decca" → space
  • Make sure The Last Waltz (1978 album) doesn't have the "(1978 album)" in italics (you have it for "The Last Waltz (2002 album)" but not the 1978 album)
  • Speaking of these, I think you can capitalize "The" in "The Band"

That's all I got so far. Sorry if I'm being nit-picky, just wanna make sure this is the best it can be. Great job so far, should earn my support in no time! :-) – zmbro (talk) 21:13, 17 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Good suggestions. I'll work on the lead and ping you for a second look. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:03, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Couple more comments from zmbro
  • Lead and image look much better now, great job on that :-)
  • Now that the tables span the entire page, I'm noticing that many song titles (especially in singles) that have random breaks between A-sides and B-sides and some in the middle of song names. Examples include: "You're Gonna Miss Me (When I'm Dead and Gone)" / "Mean Red Spider", "Just Make Love to Me (I Just Want to Make Love to You)" / "Oh Yeah", and "The Blues Had a Baby and They Named It Rock and Roll (No. 2)" / "Mannish Boy". I would remove these random breaks. Same for things like "Note: Sides 1 and 2 are studio recordings" on Fathers and Sons, etc.
    • It's hard to tell how the tables appear on various portable devices, so I removed all the breaks. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:22, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Idk why I'm being so nit-picky but the release for Folk Singer says April 1964 on its WP page but here it says January 30, 1964...
    • The uncited date in the WP article is the same as that in the sidebar of the AllMusic.com review. For this discography, I have cited the Chess Box booklet that indicates "Album release dates from the Chess files" (p. 29) as much as possible. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:22, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ah I got you. Yeah if you got a book source that states it that's good. – zmbro (talk) 17:44, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The "vol. 2, 1952–1958" part of the title for "Hoochie Coochie Man: The Complete Chess Masters, vol. 2, 1952–1958" is not italicized. Is it supposed to be? Same for "You Shook Me: The Chess Masters, vol. 3, 1958 to 1963" (I'd personally also capitalize "Vol.")
    • The titles vary from source to source. Now, I have made them consistent with the titles on the front covers of the actual releases. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:22, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Another general question but why is only one chart listed for every table? Are those listed the only charts his music placed on?
    • Muddy Waters's impact and legacy is more on the musical or artistic level than sales or commercial performance. I've included footnotes to show four appearances on the UK singles, Billboard 200, and RPM charts, but don't feel these justify additional chart columns. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:22, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think uses of "mono" and "stereo" should be capitalized as well
Alright I think I got everything that's striking me. Almost there! :-) – zmbro (talk) 04:27, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Alright all good for me. Great job on this! – zmbro (talk) 17:44, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from ChrisTheDude
  • Firstly, great to see a bluesman getting recognition at FLC!
  • What's the criterion for "selected" live and compilation albums i.e. why are these selected but not others?
  • Since there is such a large amount of questionable material out there, I tried to include the ones that 1) were issued by his official record companies, 2) appeared on the charts, or 3) noted in his bio by Gordon or other references, such as the All Music Guide to the Blues. I used the same approach with the Elmore James discography. The many releases by Charly Records and related labels were excluded, because it lost the copyright infringement lawsuit over its unauthorized releases of the Chess catalogue.[4]—Ojorojo (talk) 16:22, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I notice that that discog has a couple of sentences at the top of the relevant section explaining the selection. Would something similar be possible here? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:26, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • In some cases where multiple refs are together they are not in numerical order
  • Ref columns are usually centred
  • Fixed, although most discographies lack inline citations. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:22, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the "as accompanist - singles" table, not a single one charted, so is there really any point in having the chart peak column?
  • It gives a more consistent, professional look, IMO. I'm not a fan of jumping to different sized tables with different columns from section to section. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:22, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd be tempted to show the two versions of "The Last Waltz" as "The Last Waltz" and "The Last Waltz (deluxe re-release)" or "...(box set re-release)" rather than use the dates, as using the dates doesn't rule out the possibility that they are two completely different albums that happen to have the same title.....
  • Some (although not all) of the notes are complete sentences so need full stops
  • Quick comment – Ref 46 doesn't include the publication year in the cite, which is causing a nasty red harv error message to appear. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:15, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fixed (mine doesn't show in red). Thanks. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:10, 17 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • DISEman has created several new Muddy Waters album articles and added links to the discography. However, some didn't use a sort key for titles beginning with "The", etc. (see WP:SORTKEY). These have been restored to the reviewed version. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:18, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support DISEman (talk) 03:33, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well, this one took a while, but source review passed, promoting. --PresN 03:30, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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