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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Mohanlal filmography/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was archived by Giants2008 via FACBot (talk) 00:32, 21 April 2016 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Mohanlal filmography edit

Mohanlal filmography (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Inside the Valley (talk) 15:50, 3 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because it's a comprehensive list of films, theatre, songs, and other credits of Indian actor Mohanlal, a matinee idol and one of the finest actors in Indian cinema. The list is copy edited, reviewed, and reference checked by experienced editors. Looking forward to all helpful comments for improving it. Inside the Valley (talk) 15:50, 3 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Dr. Blofeld A bit sad that the nominator couldn't wait even a week for me to attend to this. Me not reviewing it within three days was dismissed by Inside the Valley as "not interested". Anyway..

"In 1984 he starred in the lead role in Poochakkoru Mookkuthi, a comedy film whose success pioneered the rise of the genre in Malayalam cinema.[6][7] " -seems a very sweeping statement to make, so you're saying that comedy films in malayalam cinema only began in the mid 80s? Don't believe it.

  • "a landmark film which starred almost all actors in Malayalam cinema." -all actors??

It looks OK, I guess you'd expect some detail given over 300 films. The prose is a little plodding though and could use sharpening up a little.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:46, 4 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I am extremely sorry Dr. Blofeld, I was stupid to do that. And sorry to all other editors who felt bad about my act. A couple of hours ago, I actually came here to withdraw my nomination for starting a second review. But after seeing the comments of both you and Kailash, I changed my decision. I had made some changes.

  • "In 1984 he starred in the lead role in Poochakkoru Mookkuthi, a comedy film whose success pioneered the rise of the genre in Malayalam cinema." - Actually this is true, full fledged comedy films came only in 1980s. It's director Priyadarshan ( of Poochakkoru Mookkuthi), who is known as the pioneer of comedy films in Malayalam. Did you know that the period 1980-1995 is commonly referred as the "Golden period" of Malayalam cinema for kick starting a variety of genres. I had made a minor change which now reads as "In 1984 he starred in the lead role in Poochakkoru Mookkuthi, a comedy film whose success pioneered the rise of the genre in 1980s.". If you feel it's still not acceptable, please tell what should I change, I will do that.
  • "a landmark film which starred almost all actors in Malayalam cinema." -all actors?? - Actually not. It's "almost all". All actors (except 2 or 3) in the Association of Malayalam Movie Artists (AMMA) acted in the film (without payment). Almost every actor in Malayalam cinema is a member of the association. I have changed it that way. "a landmark film which starred almost all actors in the guild of Malayalam film actors - AMMA".
  • This is actually a cut-short version to maintain the word count in the lead. Only mentioned about the major of the major events in his career. --Inside the Valley (talk) 19:53, 4 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Corrected "Poochakkoru Mookkuthi..", "landmark film" and the prose also, I believe. --Inside the Valley (talk) 20:32, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Kailash

  • "the romantic drama Manjil Virinja Pookkal" - But its article defines it as romantic thriller.
  • Relink anti-hero as antihero.
  • "Mohanlal is said to have got the nickname "Lalettan" after the character name in the 1987 romantic comedy Sarvakalashala" - By whom? Or is it a rumour?
  • "comical tragedy" - tragicomedy?
  • Delink "motion picture" as it is a common term.
  • I still find many uses of Filmibeat as a source. It fails WP:RS, so please replace or remove them.
  • Daily Mail (unfortunately) and IndiaGlitz too fail WP:RS, and I know they can be replaced.

More comments will follow. Kailash29792 (talk) 12:18, 4 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Done all the corrections you said.--Inside the Valley (talk) 19:53, 4 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think there is no other major issue with the article. Just re-add the films you removed with more reliable sources. Kailash29792 (talk) 06:15, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Re-added one film of the 3 removed from "producer" credits. I tried my best, but there are no reliable sources for Kanmadam and Olympian Anthony Adam (produced by Pranavam). It will surely get some sources in future, which I will add. --Inside the Valley (talk) 16:18, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
About OAA, I'm not sure about the credibility of this source, but it looks like an equivalent to Ilankai Tamil Sangam. Then there's this that can be used for Kanmadam. Kailash29792 (talk) 17:04, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your effort. But unfortunately, these sources does not cite that Mohanlal is the producer. --Inside the Valley (talk) 19:16, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Added and sourced. --Inside the Valley (talk) 19:13, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment from Jimknut
  • It looks like the sorting needs some attention since names of characters and directors do not sort by last names. Jimknut (talk) 17:26, 17 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for that information. I had fixed the sorting for the names of characters and directors. --Inside the Valley (talk) 18:57, 21 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support — Looks good. Jimknut (talk) 19:25, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (Talk) 02:06, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • "His performance as Narendran, a sadistic husband, received him recognition..." Remove "him" for better grammar.
Fixed.
  • "a comedy whose success pioneered the rise of the genre in 1980s." Needs "the" before 1980s.
Fixed.
  • The second paragraph has a few sentences in a row that start with "He". More variety would be nice if possible.
Fixed.
  • Comma needed after His Highness Abdullah.
Fixed.
  • There's no need for a second National Film Awards link in the lead.
Fixed.
  • IIFA should be spelled out in the fourth paragraph.
Fixed.
  • First word of "Lieutenant colonel" shouldn't be capitalized from the looks of it.
Fixed.
  • The hyphen before AMMA should be a en dash (the smaller of the two dash types) instead.
Fixed.
  • In the notes column, decapitalize the first word of "The Oscars". As far as I know, only the second word is properly capitalized.
Fixed.
  • In the Singer table's headings, Album shouldn't be capitalized.
Fixed.
  • The first external link needs a bullet point like the other one has. Giants2008 (Talk) 20:23, 20 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. All corrections made. Thanks for your inputs. --Inside the Valley (talk) 19:35, 21 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • One more thing I noticed while reviewing the changes: in the fourth paragraph, International Indian Film Academy Awards shouldn't be plural. You'll have to pipe the link there. Giants2008 (Talk) 02:06, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]


Resolved comments from Ojorojo (talk) 14:06, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
* 'Casino Films' , 'Cheers Films' — these don't appear to need single (or double) marks (see MOS:QUOTEMARKS). To give them more emphasis, maybe rephrase as "In that year, he co-founded Casino Films,[a] the motion picture production company, which later produced ..."
Corrected.
  • Also co-founded the production company 'Cheers Films'.[b] And received his first Kerala State Film Award for Best Actor for the comedy drama T. P. Balagopalan M. A..[6] The youngest actor to win the award at the age of 26, a record he held until 2006.[12] — these are not sentences and should be written or combined as such.
Rephrased.
  • The prose overall has room for improvement. If you want, I can make some suggested changes in the text on the talk page (easier than listing them one by one).
I will appreciate that.
  • The Actor column (all "Yes" with awkward color highlighting) in the Producer table is unneeded and can be handled by adding the info to the section intro: "Mohanlal had produced films under [by] his companies Casino Films, Cheers Films, and Pranavam Arts, in which he also appeared as an actor."
Corrected
  • Likewise, the Actor column (overwhelmingly "Yes" & green) in the Distributor table can be replaced with "Mohanlal has distributed [distributes] films under [through] his company Maxlab Cinemas and Entertainments. He also acts in all of the films, except as indicated in the notes." (Changed to present tense; presumably this is ongoing). Also the image in this section looks awkward – it appears randomly tagged on and leaves a too much empty area beneath it and comes almost at the end of the list. Maybe widen the Title and Notes columns to make the overall width closer to the preceding table.
Corrected. (Image removed)

—Ojorojo (talk) 15:39, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Ojorojo, that was helpful. --Inside the Valley (talk) 14:51, 23 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support There have been many improvements. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:06, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Cirt

  1. Bit problematic writing style and overly long sentences.
  2. Lots of awkward wording throughout, could use significant copy edit.
  3. http://dispenser.homenet.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/webchecklinks.py?page=Mohanlal_filmography = is pretty good actually, shows a "google cache" for one link, better to use Internet Archive or Web Citation tools.
  4. Over usage of run-on-sentences and lots of over comma usage.

— Cirt (talk) 00:29, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Made some changes.
  2. User:Ojorojo is currently helping with copy editing suggestions.
  3. Fixed.
  4. Made some changes.
Don't know whether it resolved all the grammatical problems you find out. I wish you had specified the sentences. I could do better if you do so. --Inside the Valley (talk) 17:33, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Famous Hobo I'll look this over tomorrow when I get the chance, but just doing a quick look over now. One thing that caught my eye was the singer section. Why is that in this list, when the list is about cinema, theatrical, and radio performances? Any song related stuff should go in a discography list, like Madonna albums discography and Madonna filmography. Also, why seperate sections for acting and producing? Most of the films he's produced, he's also acted in, so why not do something along the lines of Natalie Portman filmography, where the producer roles are listed in the notes section. The latter of my two comments is just a thought, though I would like to see the singer section removed. Famous Hobo (talk) 07:58, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Removed the singer section. But the seperate table for "producer" make sense here. Mohanlal owns 3 production companies. Two co-owned and one his own company. Independent section for that gives better understanding for the readers. Also limiting it to the "notes" will make it random on the long list (above 300 films), making it difficult to the readers searching for his producer credits. --Inside the Valley (talk) 17:33, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • NOTE: Please respond, below entire review, and not interspersed throughout, thanks! Can you please move your comments, below mine, so they don't break apart my numbered list of comments? Thank you, — Cirt (talk) 19:40, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • User talk page spamming: FLC nominator has been User talk page spamming to numerous users about this Featured content discussion. That is inappropriate behavior. — Cirt (talk) 19:42, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Significant serious concerns about user talk page spamming in an attempt to impact the outcome of this Featured content discussion. Poor writing quality. Run-on sentences. Overusage of commas. Failure to use article words such as "a" and "the". Not featured quality at this time. FLC nominator should be sanctioned or at the very least warned against spamming user talk pages in the future. Thank you, — Cirt (talk) 19:49, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regretful Oppose – FOA, thanks to the nominator for working with the article. To begin with, the article (table) has some serious sourcing issues. I checked the refs. for a lot many films in the 80s. They clearly fail WP:V as they don't even confirm the actor's presence in the film; the roles aren't covered by the sources either. Considering that these films belonged to the pre-internet era, it's almost impossible to source them through online refs. The prose looks confusing, and the lead reads much like a fan page. Unless we have a biography (book) on the actor (which at least lists down the films), the article is incapable of ever becoming an FL. On a related note, the article has changed (still changing) a lot during the review. These improvements should've really been made outside the FLC. —Vensatry (Talk) 06:13, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Cirt: If you can specify the sentences and point out the problems, I can fix it. Every user may not feel the same way you think about the grammatical errors and the spamming issue. Spamming is subjective, hence spam messages are different for each user. If my message regarding the FLC was an unwanted subject. Then it is definitely a spam. You can always ignore or delete it and warn me. But I don't think I have "spammed" every user talk pages I messaged. --Inside the Valley (talk) 19:12, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It certainly is WP:VOTESTACK. You could've notified the relevant wikiprojects and invited (active) participants for the peer review. —Vensatry (Talk) 08:16, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Vensatry: There is a source from Malayala Manorama which list the films acted by Mohanlal. It was published in 2011, so films upto that point is listed (here). Can this be included in the "external links" or anything like that. I agree that the article changed a lot, but all improvements was as per the reviews here. --Inside the Valley (talk) 19:12, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That's WP:MIRROR for sure. —Vensatry (Talk) 07:21, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
How are you so "sure" ?. Malayala Manorama is a highly reputed news agency, they don't have to mirror Wikipedia. It's reliable. --Inside the Valley (talk) 13:58, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
They have clearly taken this from our article. A lot many reliable sources (including India's leading daily) sometimes copy stuff from WP. —Vensatry (Talk) 14:43, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
How are you so clear ? India's leading daily may have, but MM has no history of copying stuff from Wiki. Words like "sure" and "clearly" sounds like you have found something. Can you prove it ? --Inside the Valley (talk) 19:06, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Because, the page (much like 'Rediff specials') resembles a fan portal. They have clearly lifted it from WP; you may check with the page history if you want. Besides, there's no indication that they've done any research on their side. I wouldn't consider MM as a reliable source in FA/FL level articles. —Vensatry (Talk) 18:06, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If you're going to use this as a 'general' ref. you still need separate sources (for all films) which WP:V the role and director parameters. —Vensatry (Talk) 18:09, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, spamming is not subjective. It is a violation of WP:CANVASS and, specifically, WP:VOTESTACK. — Cirt (talk) 22:01, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Vensatry, and the fact this has been at FLC for a month and the prose is still terrible (i.e. the three obvious errors in "In 1978, he started acting at age 18 with a minor comedic role in the unreleased film Thiranottam, before making screen debut in 1980 as antagonist in the romance film Manjil Virinja Pookkal.") Laura Jamieson (talk) 22:45, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comments after revisit

I checked the lead. There are incredible claims that are either misattributed or fail WP:V:
  • The very first line: "who has starred in both blockbuster and art house films for independent filmmakers" is one such example.
  • "His portrayal of Narendran, a sadistic husband, received recognition and the film developed a cult status in Indian cinema". This is quite a claim; the source says Malayalam cinema (I'd corrected this one though).
  • "The Indian media named Mohanlal a "superstar" after the success of the crime drama Rajavinte Makan (1986). Again, not clear whether the 'Superstar' tag is confined to Malayalam cinema. But when you say 'Indian media' it sounds like he was referred to as the 'Indian Superstar'.
  • "In Irupatham Noottandu (1987), he portrayed mobster Sagar Alias Jacky — which became a cult figure in crime dramas ever since its release" Again, Malayalam cinema or Indian cinema?
  • Ditto with "His tragicomedy Chithram (1988) ran continuously for 58 weeks in one theatre, a record still unbroken"
  • "In 2000, Mohanlal's action drama, Narasimham, became the highest-grossing Malayalam film at the time. His character Induchoodan has since attracted a cult following" The source (metromatinee.com) isn't reliable. Besides, it doesn't say the film was the highest'-grossing Malayalam film'. Also, it tells nothing about the character attaining cult status.

—Vensatry (Talk) 08:13, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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