Wikipedia

Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of songs recorded by Leona Lewis/archive2

< Wikipedia:Featured list candidates
The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 14:57, 18 August 2012 [1].

List of songs recorded by Leona Lewis edit

List of songs recorded by Leona Lewis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Toolbox
Nominator(s): Aaron • You Da One 22:25, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because... I have addressed the points from the previous nomination and also performed a copy edit of the article. I think that it is pass worthy this time :). Aaron • You Da One 22:25, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 11:13, 17 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Quick comments
  • No link for UEG?
    It's not linked because there's no article. UEG redirects to Jellium, a type of gas. Aaron • You Da One
    ok. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:59, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "GB£" why not just link £?
    I did have it as that, but someone changed it to say the country. Aaron • You Da One
    Well it's no big deal, but I'd just stick with £. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:59, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    I've just realised that it is a template, that's why it appears like it. Aaron • You Da One
  • "Cowell conceptualised the song " I may be just stupid but can you explain exactly what you mean here?
    The picture of him says "Simon Cowell came up with the idea to use some of the lyrics from the poem "Footprints" on Lewis' song "Footprints in the Sand", and was credited as a songwriter.". Shall I put this exact in the lead? Aaron • You Da One
    I think it's fine, let's see if anyone else finds it an issue. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:59, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Most of the lead seems to deal with music that was released, which I would assume I'd see in a Leona Lewis discography article. Shouldn't you be focusing on the songs she recorded that don't feature in the discog?
    I do. The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face, Don't Let Me Down, Love Letter, Iris, Colourblind, Glass Heart, Come Alive. I'm placing more emphasis on the writers, some which happened to be singles. Aaron • You Da One
    Okay, I'd do more to avoid the released singles etc, but no major issues. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:59, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Have spoken about "Here I Am" from Spirit and "Can't Breathe" from Echo. Aaron • You Da One
  • "premièred" no need for the accent.
    Removed.
  • J. R. Rotem -> J.R. Rotem.
    Changed. Aaron • You Da One
  • Ref. -> Ref(s)
    Changed. Aaron • You Da One
  • You relink writers (e.g. Leona Lewis) but not Artist(s).
    She doesn't needed to be relinked for the Artist column. It was suggested to link her in the Writer(s) column.
    No big deal but if you relink her in the Artist column, there's no logical reason not to relink her throughout. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:59, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Best Kept Secret[note 1] [17]" why the line break?
    Not really sure what you mean? Can you explain please.
    On my screen, the [17] is on the line below the [note 1], it's not a big deal but I just wondered why. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:59, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    There isn't a reason really lol. Aaron • You Da One
  • When I click on a "Broadcast Music" link, it tells me it's by BMI Repertoire. What's the deal?
    Broadcast Music, Inc. publishes/owns the repertoire.
    Fine. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:59, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 19:32, 11 July 2012 (UTC) Thanks for leaving comments TRM :-) Aaron • You Da One 21:37, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Sanders11 (talk) 19:27, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
* I still don't see the rationale for including remixes.
  • Removed the remixes from Best Kept Secret.
    Thanks
  • Forgiveness and Misses Glass have the wrong year.
    Corrected. Aaron • You Da One
  • The two references for Best Kept Secret have slightly different tracklistings, any idea why?
    iTunes includes two more remixes, but that's irrelevant now as they aren't included. Aaron • You Da One
  • In general the article could do with a bit more polish: the writers aren't all formatted the same (some commas, some separate lines; some linked, some not), the notes aren't formatted the same, look at how you've placed the references for I'm So Into You and Bad Boy, is that the best way to display the artist for 1000 Lights etc
    Any writer who isn't linked means they don't have an article. All comma's have been removed. I didn't put a reference like that for I'm So Into You and Bad Boy, and I didn't put Javier there either. But removed. Aaron • You Da One 13:02, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry the unlinked was referring to Inaspetatta which didn't have Biagio and Leona linked, but thats moot now.
    OKay. Aaron • You Da One 11:47, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sanders11 (talk) 17:54, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's an improvement but there are still some flaws.

  • A large number of songs are missing, I See You, Love is Your Color etc, and even things like Come Alive which you mention in the lead. Please go through the list and actually check all the songs that should be there are.
    I had to remove I See You and Love is Your Color, as well as others, because ASCAP changed how you view their webpages, so the citations lead to dead links. I've said this on the list's talk page. Also, we don't know who wrote Come Alive, so I hadn't included it. Aaron • You Da One
    I'm pretty sure there are other references you can use, fair enough for the unreleased stuff but there must be places that mention the released stuff. You have added plenty of songs without the writers so you can do that here too if you can reference that she recorded a song called that.
    ASCAP has sorted its website now and you can look at individual songs, but the URL is only the URL to the search bar, not the specific song URL. Is this okay? Aaron • You Da One
    I don't see why not, the BPI certifications link to a search box. Failing that you could reference the album liner notes.
    Added back I See You, I Know Who I Am, Love Is Your Colour etc. from ASCAP. Added a few unreleased ones too. Aaron • You Da One 11:47, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    No Trouble, Come Alive, Save Me?
    Where is Trouble supposed to go? We know it's the second single, but it's still unreleased. Come Alive, again, is on the album but is unreleased. And I've not heard of Save Me. Aaron • You Da One 13:05, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Well given there was a section of unreleased songs I would have thought there would be a logical place for Trouble and Come Alive. Save Me is a duet she did with a Japanese artist.
  • In the vast majority of the unreleased songs there is no actual evidence that Leona recorded a version and wasn't just a songwriter for it. The leaked column is never going to be able to be referenced but I can see it's value so I'm not too fussed about that but can understand if others can.
    I see what you're saying, but they are on Youtube. I've heard even more leaks than the list includes, simply because there are no sources. I've actually got about 20 leaks from Echo. Aaron • You Da One
    I do too, and I agree that it is pretty likely that she did record a version of these songs, but I think since you are nominating it for FL these kinda things need to be mentioned.
    I've changed the name of the section heading to "Unreleased written/recorded songs". Aaron • You Da One 11:47, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    See comments below
    Replied. Aaron • You Da One 13:05, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't see the value of a different colour for foreign language songs, it just opens the door for having a different colour for all different kinds of songs, and causes issues for situations like this where the song was a single so should be purple?
    I've never actually seen a source saying that "Unexpected" was a single, nor have I seen a release date. I don't even think it's on the Italian iTunes. Aaron • You Da One
    Yeah I had a nightmare looking into it when I was trying to update the discography. And actually looking at the source on the discography page although it is his website it seems to have been taken from the Italian wikipedia :S
    So that's why I haven't listed it as a single. If it was a single, I'm sure it would have charted in Italy. Aaron • You Da One
    Not sure what you want me to do about this one really. There's nothing to do about it. Aaron • You Da One 11:47, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not saying you have to do anything, we are allowed to have different opinions, you think a different colour of foreign songs has value and I don't. You don't need to change it if you don't want but I'm not going to put it under resolved comments as it isn't resolved.
    Only because I haven't said I'd change it. I said I don't want to, and you've agreed that I don't have to, so to me that is resolved. Aaron • You Da One 13:05, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are a lot of notes and I find them quite distracting. I had a think about how to best reflect the version of Spirit the songs were from and noticed discographies don't mention deluxe versions or whatever so I think you could probably get away with just saying they are all from Spirit and not bothering with the note about different versions since it probably just causes more confusion. Can you see if any others could be removed or altered, or consider changing to the [A] type notes instead of [note 1]?
    How do I do that? Aaron • You Da One
    I just copy and paste from another article that uses them (like the discography) but I'm sure there's a page somewhere explaining them.
    So you want me to use A, B, C etc instead of Note 1, Note 2. Aaron • You Da One
    Well you don't have to it was just a suggestion to make the notes less obtrusive.
    I tried doing it but it won't work as I have notes from both section tables, therefore the notes won't all be together. Aaron • You Da One 11:47, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Fair dos but you should at least have a consistent way of displaying the notes. Some appear right next to the word, some have a space before the note and some appear on the next line.
    Because some notes are related to the song, while others are related to the album. That's not inconsistent on purpose. Aaron • You Da One 13:05, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Compare "Forgiveness" [note 2], "Heartbeat"[note 3] and "Inaspettata (Unexpected)" •[note 4]. There is no reason for those three to be different.
  • Can you make the two tables line up?
    I'll have to play around with some codes. Aaron • You Da One
    I've made all but one column match up, not sure why the Ref(s). column won't match up. Aaron • You Da One 11:47, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    It isn't lined up on my screen. Could you not add an image to the unreleased stuff so that it lines up?
    They are perfectly lined up on my screen. That's not my fault that it's not on yours. Aaron • You Da One 13:05, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for commenting. Aaron • You Da One 13:02, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from NapHit (talk) 12:37, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • "...and featured songs on albums..." are you trying to say she has featured on songs in other artist's albums? Its not entirely clear at the moment, would reword this to make it clearer what this refers to.
    Added that they are on other artists albums. Aaron • You Da One
  • "though Lewis revealed that she had never signed a contract that stated that"
    Removed. Aaron • You Da One
  • have no conversion for first use of GB£, then in next para we have a conversion to dollars, be consistent
    There was only a conversion for one at that time's conversion rate. Removed the dollar equivalent. Aaron • You Da One
  • Ref(s) should be Ref as only one ref is used for each song
    Removed. Aaron • You Da One
  • Likewise in unreleaed table Artists(s) should be Artist, as its only Leona Lewis in the column, which also means the column should be unsortable
    Done. Aaron • You Da One
  • ref 15, surely there is a better source for this than the sun, pains me to see that used a reference
    Lol, what's wrong with The Sun? Aaron • You Da One 23:14, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Let's just say its not the most reputable newspaper around, anyway I found an alternative ref from the guardian, which i would use instead. NapHit (talk) 12:36, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

NapHit (talk) 22:17, 6 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • One further comment, noticed that you have Broadcast Music and Broadcast Music, Inc, in the refs, not sure which one is correct, but you need to be consistent, also smart is no the author of ref 15. NapHit (talk) 14:47, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    All say Broadcast Music now. And that was a mistake on fn15, I forgot to write first= lol. Thanks. Aaron • You Da One 15:25, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose – I think it's pretty cool that we can present reliable information about unreleased songs thanks to publishers' databases, etc., but so long as the "Leak" column remains citation-free, this list should not be promoted. There is a citation that attests to one song's leak, but the rest are original research. A leaked song is available on YouTube, you say? How do you know it's the track in question and sung by Leona Lewis, and not some talented unknown who produced a track based on a song title and attributed it to Lewis so as to get "discovered"? Also, absent a citation, how can one definitively say that a track has not leaked? Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 20:35, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • You oppose everything I nominate so this is hardly surprising. All the songs which have not leaked are listed under her registered name on BMI and ASCAP, so yes, they are her songs. The songs which leaked and are on Youtube are songs from BMI and ASCAP which list her as a songwriter and is her voice singing them, so don't go all "what if it's another talented person" because that's bull. The only one which has leaked is sourced saying that is has leaked and for what album it is intended for. And one can say that a song has definitely not leaked because there is no source to say it has, as that would defeat the point of there being a source. I've removed it anyway, Aaron • You Da One 11:45, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
One more thing: To adequately summarize the content of the list, I advise a minor rewrite of the lead. Something like: "British singer-songwriter Leona Lewis has recorded ## songs that have been released through her own albums, EP and singles. She has also collaborated with other artists for duets and featured songs on albums on other artists albums, charity singles and soundtracks. In addition, Lewis is credited with co-writing ## songs that have not been released. Before winning..." Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 13:07, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That would be original research, and is not necessary. We don't know how many songs she has actually written. Aaron • You Da One 13:21, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"...is credited with co-writing at least ## songs..." – Problem solved! It is necessary to summarize the contents of the list, as you know. Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 17:32, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's not necessary. I promoted List of songs recorded by Rihanna and it was promoted on its second nomination, and no one ever said about writing how many songs should be written. Also, it's a list of recorded songs, not written by Leona Lewis list. That's why it's not necessary. It would make it look like the songs she has co-written are more important and carry more weight. Aaron • You Da One 17:34, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I can't figure out whether you're making an argument against the inclusion of content you previously added or just foot-dragging... Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 17:51, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm against writing that she has written a certain amount of songs. It's a list of song's recorded by her, not written by her. What info have I just added to the article? Aaron • You Da One 17:53, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You have a section entitled "Unreleased written/recorded songs". It sounds like you're advocating for the removal of that section, but if not, I don't believe it's putting undue weight on it to summarize it in one sentence in the lead. Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 18:07, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What? I've never said that section should be removed. What are you on about? Aaron • You Da One 09:46, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There is a disconnect between your insistence that 1) the list contain a primary section devoted to Lewis' unreleased songs, and 2) said section must not be mentioned in the lead, lest we give it undue weight. Either this section is worthy of inclusion in the list (I believe it is), in which case a one-sentence summary is warranted, or the section should be removed entirely. (In case it's the "written" part you're getting hung up on, we don't know how many of these unreleased songs have actually been recorded, so "Lewis is credited with co-writing ## songs that have not been released" is the most we can say.) Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 10:50, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see the relevance of saying how many songs she has co-written in the lead. It makes it sound like the songs she co-wrote are more important and carry more weight. Rihanna's list doesn't state how many songs she has co-written, and I promoted it to FL. That list is how I structured Leona's list. Aaron • You Da One 10:55, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You don't see the relevance of saying it in the lead, but you do see the relevance of giving it its own primary section. Help me understand that. By the way, reviewers sometimes miss things, so other FLCs are precedent-setting to the point that we cannot question aspects of the list that match a promoted list. Your FL was promoted with a partially-unsourced "leak" column, for example, which I'm off to remove right now... Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 11:12, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The section is songs written/recorded for Lewis, she didn't co-write all of them. And the songs on Rihanna's were sourced if they had leaked. You can't provide a source for a song which hasn't leaked because you can't comment on a song which hasn't leaked. Get it? Aaron • You Da One 11:19, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, pardon me for missing that not all of those tracks were co-written by Lewis. Still, that's easily corrected: "In addition, Lewis has recorded and/or co-written ## songs that have not been released." Re: leaks – Saying (on Wikipedia) that a song has not leaked would require that a reliable source has confirmed it with the artist/management/label, which is entirely possible. If such a source doesn't exist, you can't say whether the song has leaked or not, because it takes original research to match what your ears are hearing to a specific entry in a specific list-class article. Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 11:48, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I just don't see the relevance. How it's worded about her three albums, EP, soundtracks, featured songs etc. is better. Aaron • You Da One 12:06, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What is the relevance of the "Unreleased written/recorded songs" section? Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 12:36, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Because the table demonstrates what unreleased songs she has written/recorded. Aaron • You Da One 12:45, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. And this would be detrimental to mention in the lead because...? Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 15:11, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The title of the article is List of songs recorded by Leona Lewis, therefore should only include songs she has recorded. If you want to include songs she has written you should rename it to something like List of Leona Lewis songs. That way you could possibly include songs she wrote that other artists released. Sanders11 (talk) 15:51, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No, because all lists like this have the name "List of songs recorded by..." There's no problem. I've resolved this by making a separate article for her unreleased written and recorded songs. Aaron • You Da One 13:00, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Just cause other lists have that title doesn't make it the most accurate for this list. And her unreleased stuff in general isn't notable, it's fine as part of this but not as a standalone list. See WP:Articles for deletion/List of unreleased Lady Gaga songs. Sanders11 (talk) 17:46, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
These are just contradicting statements now. The unreleased stuff is no longer in this list, so I have resolved the issue of it. Aaron • You Da One 17:58, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose I agree with Two Hearted River, at the same time I question the relevance of the column. Afro (Talk) 06:35, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Because they are still songs written and recorded by her. That's the relevance. I've removed it anyway. Aaron • You Da One 12:03, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I wasn't questioning the section, just the column. Pending Sanders issues get resolved I'll Support. Afro (Talk) 09:39, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_list_candidates/List_of_songs_recorded_by_Leona_Lewis/archive2&oldid=1140185369"