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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of presidents of the Indian National Congress/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:26, 19 June 2021 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of presidents of the Indian National Congress edit

List of presidents of the Indian National Congress (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ☣✅ 15:27, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is my fourth or fifth FL nomination. Have worked quite hard and spent hours to improve the list like references, table, lead etc. List has all required thing to be FL. All constructive comments are more than welcome. Thank you. 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ☣✅ 15:27, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural note: You currently have an open FLC with no supports yet. Per the instructions, "Nominators should not add a second featured list nomination until the first has gained substantial support and reviewers' concerns have been substantially addressed." I would withdraw this FLC until that nomination is close to being complete. RunningTiger123 (talk) 20:24, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • @25 Cents FC:, given the comment above, you may want to consider formally withdrawing this nomination for the time being. Aza24 (talk) 23:58, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: the other nomination was archived, so this one is now fine as far as that goes. --PresN 03:23, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved accessibility review
;Accessibility review (MOS:DTAB)
  • The tables need colscopes for all columns- you have it for two columns but not the other three
 Added.— TheWikiholic (talk) 17:57, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The tables need rowscopes for the "primary" cell of each row- you have it for two cells in each row, pick one
 Done.— TheWikiholic (talk) 17:57, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The tables need captions (e.g. where you have "
Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:40, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments on the lead
  • Nothing in the first paragraph is sourced
 Added. TheWikiholic (talk) 11:50, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the senior most- General Secretary" - presume you mean "the seniormost General Secretary"
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 13:01, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "head of the organisation" - what organisation is this?
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 13:01, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "During 1885–1933, the presidency had a term of one year only. Upon formation of Congress (I) in 1978, Indira Gandhi however" - what happened between 1933 and 1978? Also it should be upon the formation
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 13:01, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "institutionalized the practice" - earlier you spelt "organisation" with an S (British English) but here you spell a similar word with a Z (American English). Pick one and be consistent
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 10:25, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "P. V. Narasimha Rao too held both the Congress (I) president and the Prime Minister's posts" => "P. V. Narasimha Rao also held both posts of both Congress (I) president and the Prime Minister"
 Fixed. TheWikiholic (talk) 09:49, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Manmohan Singh became the first Prime Minister, not to be the president" - no need for that comma
 Fixed. TheWikiholic (talk) 09:49, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After the party's foundation in December 1885, Womesh Chunder Bonnerjee became its first president" - this should be mentioned earlier
 Fixed. TheWikiholic (talk) 09:49, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's it on the lead. I will look at the rest later -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:34, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
More comments
  • Headings use capitals where there is no reason to. It should be "The founding years", "The pre-independence era" and "The post-independence era"
 Fixed. TheWikiholic (talk) 11:50, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why does number 10 (1895) appear after number 9 (1896)? And why are there two 1895s in the first place?
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 10:06, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why does number 9 show the years as 1895 and 1892 (the wrong way round)?
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 10:06, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why are there two 1892s?
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 10:06, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • What's with all the different place names in the "places of conference" column against Sonia Gandhi, including New Delhi appearing four times? I don't get that at all.....
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 10:06, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Refs 2 and 3 are bare URLs not formatted at all. Ref 4 has no author, publication date, or access date -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:24, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 18:19, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • @ChrisTheDude: Can you please close the suggestions that I fixed already?. It will help me to identify the unsolved one very easily.— TheWikiholic (talk) 10:53, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
Resolved comments from RunningTiger123 (talk) 23:52, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
;Drive-by comment

I'm not a fan of grouping non-consecutive terms into the same row. It makes it very difficult to follow the chronological progression of presidents. If a person served in the role for non-consecutive terms, that person should have multiple entries; this seems to be the standard in similar FLs. RunningTiger123 (talk) 03:57, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Fixed.RunningTiger123 Lists have been updated per your suggestion. Please have a look and let me know if there are any issues with the grouping. Regards.— TheWikiholic (talk) 10:06, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

All right, here's a full review of the list:

  • "Constitution of the Indian National Congress [1]" – shouldn't be a space between text and citation
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 06:31, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The president of the party has effectively been [...]" – this sentence is unsourced
plus Added.— TheWikiholic (talk) 06:31, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After the party's foundation [...] there was no such fixed term for the president." – these lines are unsourced
plus Added.— TheWikiholic (talk) 06:31, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "During 1885–1933" → "From 1885 to 1933" (clearer and removes en dash, which I tend to avoid in prose)
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 06:31, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Access date for source 3 is formatted incorrectly
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 06:31, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Citations switch between "First Last" and "Last, First" format for authors' names; pick one or the other
 Fixed.— Have opted "Last, First" format.--25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ☣✅ 07:01, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I still see many sources that use "First Last" formatting – sources 2, 3, 6, 7, 9, 12, and 17 use this formatting (I may have missed one, so check all of them). RunningTiger123 (talk) 17:36, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 17:51, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "2020–present" – table and infobox both say Sonia Gandhi has served since 2019; I'd also say "since 2019"
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 06:31, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Also, I would say that she has served for "over twenty years" instead of just "twenty years" to prevent the wording from having to be constantly updated
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 06:31, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "List of presidents during 1885-1900" – use en dash (–) instead of hyphen (-)
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 06:31, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Same for next table's header
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 06:31, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
From what I see, both headers still use hyphens. (My wording was accidentally unclear; I meant the table captions, not the section headings.) RunningTiger123 (talk) 17:36, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 13:38, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • With the split in rows, "Place(s) of conference" can become "Place of conference"
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 06:31, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tables should be sortable (make sure Portrait and References columns are unsortable and Name column sorts by last name)
Not so good with the table thing. @TheWikiholic: Need your help to sort this out.
 Done.— TheWikiholic (talk) 11:26, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Tables are still unsortable from what I can see. RunningTiger123 (talk) 17:36, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@RunningTiger123:: take a look now, please.— TheWikiholic (talk) 14:38, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Use "No." instead of "№" in all table headers
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 06:31, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Use Template:Abbr as shown above to ensure there is no confusion over the abbreviation. RunningTiger123 (talk) 17:36, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done.— TheWikiholic (talk) 14:46, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some cities in the Place(s) of conference column are wikilinked multiple times, while others are only linked once. Either link each of them only once, or link all of them every time.
 Fixed.—--25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ☣✅ 06:44, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Make sure that the sources confirm all information in the table: name, date, and conference location. I think that many of the sources don't include the last part. For example, source 28 for Rajiv Gandhi makes no mention of the conference being located in Bombay.
plus Added.— --25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ☣✅ 06:44, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • I noticed at the end that this external link appears to include lots of the relevant information, particularly for the conference locations. I wouldn't be opposed to you using this as a general source for each table by linking it in the header of each table; this would prevent any issues with missing conference locations in the other sources.
plus Added.— --25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ☣✅ 06:56, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Years for Kripalani need an en dash instead of a hyphen
 Fixed.—--25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ☣✅ 06:44, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • 34th row in last table appears to not center the citations in the References cell
 Fixed.—--25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ☣✅ 06:44, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Source 24 should be titled "Presidents of Congress past", not "residents of Congress past"
 Fixed.—--25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ☣✅ 06:44, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not sure why "Congress" is in big font in External links
 Fixed.—--25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ☣✅ 06:44, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

— RunningTiger123 (talk) 19:56, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@RunningTiger123: take a look now, please.— TheWikiholic (talk) 11:37, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the delay! Comments above. RunningTiger123 (talk) 17:36, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@RunningTiger123: Can you please close the comments that have been fixed already?. It will help us to identify the unsolved one very easily.— TheWikiholic (talk) 17:55, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Still not seeing table sorting. Has the class been updated to include "sortable"? RunningTiger123 (talk) 23:52, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@RunningTiger123: take a look now, please.— TheWikiholic (talk) 03:08, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I took a look at it and it hadn't changed, but I was able to fix it myself. RunningTiger123 (talk) 04:16, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support – RunningTiger123 (talk) 04:16, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Further comments
  • "During Jawaharlal Nehru's premiership, he rarely held the Presidency of INC" - this is the first time the initials have been used and while it is pretty obvious what they stand for they should be explained. So put (INC) after the party name at the end of the very first sentence
 Done.— TheWikiholic (talk) 08:26, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "after she formed Congress (I) in 1978" - there's no explanation of what "Congress (I)" is - is it a separate party? If so, how does it relate to this one? Or was it a renaming of this one? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:31, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed Seperate party formed in / during 1978. It was renamed as Indian National Congress by election commission of India. Added a note depicting the same.--25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ☣✅ 09:01, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Even more comments
  • "Despite being a party with a structure, Congress under Indira Gandhi did not hold any organizational elections after 1972" - so how was Barua elected in 1975.....?
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 03:33, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "did not hold any organizational elections after 1972..... Indira Gandhi, however, institutionalised" - inconsistent use of American English (with the Z) and British English (with the S) - be consistent
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 03:33, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Congress (I)—the "I" signifying Indira, the national election commission declared Congress (I) to be the real Indian National Congress for the 1984 general election" - this is not grammatically correct and (based on reading the main article) it doesn't seem to tell the whole story. I think it should say "In 1978, Indira Gandhi split from the INC and formed a new opposition party, popularly called Congress (I), which the national election commission to be the real Indian National Congress for the 1984 general election." This also needs a source -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:17, 4 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@ChrisTheDude: take a look now, please.— TheWikiholic (talk) 03:33, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review – Pending edit

Will do soon. Aza24 (talk) 21:28, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Version reviewed [2]
Formatting
  • All caps ref should be avoided (ref 1 & 34)—recommend using title case (you can find an all caps to title case converter online to do this quickly)
 Done.— TheWikiholic (talk) 10:45, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • retrieval dates missing from ref 11
plus Added.— TheWikiholic (talk) 10:45, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would avoid having "New Delhi" in ref 7 as you don't include locations for any other refs
 Done.— TheWikiholic (talk) 10:45, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 8 isn't cited correctly (I have no idea what "Britannica Portal" is), I would recommend using {{cite encyclopedia}} or using Encyclopædia Britannica for the publisher and 23 September 2020 for the date
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 10:45, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref 13 isn't cited correctly either. The All India Congress Committee should be the publisher and the archive link should be under "|archive-url=" with "|url-status=dead" and the original url under "url="
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 10:45, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • why no publisher for ref 19?
plus Added.— TheWikiholic (talk) 11:41, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • be consistent with including the work and publisher or just the work (e.g. The Indian Express. Indian Express Group vs just The Indian Express)
take a look now, please.— TheWikiholic (talk) 15:45, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Reliability
  • Seems fine
Verifiability
  • ref 6 seems to have an incomplete page range
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 11:41, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • rfe 12 Somervill has an incomplete page range
 Done. Reference 12 replaced with reference 11.— TheWikiholic (talk) 11:41, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • recommend adding oclc (462824439 – from here) in place of absent ISBN for ref 18 Aza24 (talk) 22:02, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done.— TheWikiholic (talk) 11:51, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seems good now. Pass for source review. Aza24 (talk) 22:06, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport from Aza24 edit

  • These are all non-source related
  • I would recommend linking each president's name every time in the table (the linking rules don't apply to table anyways). Here's my rationale: lets say someone wants to find the president of a specific year, say 1959. It will be awkward for them to have to scroll up five entries to where U. N. Dhebar's name is linked
    • Along these lines, I would recommend this for the Place of conference column, but that seems less pertinent if you disagree
@Aza24: Are you sure that it is necessary? I think two reviewers have different opinions and we already spent a lot of time unlinking it.— TheWikiholic (talk) 15:59, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No, not necessary at all—hence the double use of "recommendation" in my comments
  • Henry John Stedman Cotton is a disambiguation link at the moment
 Fixed.— TheWikiholic (talk) 10:55, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • recommend using {{Annotated link}} in the See also section, so the readers understand why they're linked there
plus Added.— TheWikiholic (talk) 16:27, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Aza24: Upon linking it says Wikimedia List of chief ministers from the Indian National Congress and Wikipedia List of presidents of the Bharatiya Janata Party. I am not able to comprehend why exatcly we need to use {{Annotated link}} here. Have referred few list, nowhere it's mentioned.--25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ☣✅ 09:35, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Once again, this is not "required", hence why I said "recommend"
  • Are you sure the numbering are actually used for the holders? I don't see it anywhere on their respective pages. For example, although there could be numbers in the List of presidents pro tempore of the United States Senate, there is not, as the holders are not generally reffered to by their numbering. The same seems true here, suggesting there inclusions is OR.
@Aza24: The numbering is not used for holders. Featured List like this has used the same numbering method even though holders are not generally referred to by their numbering.— TheWikiholic (talk) 15:59, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think the current version is more suitable and easier to navigate. It’s also differentiate various eras. Anyway, Pinging @RunningTiger123 for his input.— TheWikiholic (talk) 16:47, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
For both of these last two points, the numbering just doesn't make sense how it is. Why does it restart for each division—are they really separate enough to warrant this? It all seems arbitrary, is Bhogaraju Pattabhi Sitaramayya really referred to as the 1st president of the post-independence era Indian national conference, why not the 62nd overall and why a number at all? I look at the navigation box {{Indian National Congress}} and see that they're presented as single list. I don't know what the solution is here, there are certainly numerous ways to create more uniformity here, but hopefully you both see where my confusion stems from. Aza24 (talk) 22:18, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Considering the template {{Indian National Congress}}, back in time I have had made the table as per total number of presidents. However, was advised to put it in yearwise. Considering age of the Congress party; I feel it's essential to put the list in era-wise, readers would eventually understand and be able to differentiate between the presidents in "founding, pre and post"– independance years. How about adding 1st, 2nd and likewise instead of numbers, let us know.--25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ☣✅ 11:38, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
My apologies, I was unclear I think. I like the division of found, pre, post etc. — I think its helpful and sensible for the readers. My confusion is this: the numbers seem arbitrary, but I can understand your want to include them. However, reseting the numbers for each "pre" "post" section is even more arbitrary imo. Aza24 (talk) 09:01, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Aza24: take a look now, please.— TheWikiholic (talk) 14:32, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think that makes more sense. Happy to support. Aza24 (talk) 08:38, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Promoting. --PresN 03:58, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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