Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of poker hand categories/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was archived by PresN via FACBot (talk) 23:32, 20 January 2017 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of poker hand categories edit

Featured list candidates/List of poker hand categories/archive1

Nominator(s): Hpesoj00 (talk) 07:46, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because it was formally featured but got delisted for various reasons but I believe the list is now up to standards. I believe I have addressed all comments in the talk page and delisting discussion, and have generally improved the content and appearance of the article. Hpesoj00 (talk) 07:46, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Aoba47

Revise Reference 10 to avoid WP: Shouting.
If possible, add ALT texts for the images in the “Hand categories” section. I understand if this is not possible given the structure of the section, but I wanted to double-check on this point.
You do not need to repeatedly link the word “poker” after its first use in the article. Please remove any extraneous links to avoid WP:Overlinking. (The repetition in the link primarily occurs in the first line of those subsections discussing the different types of hands.) The same comment applies to the linking of the word “suit” and “high card”. I would advise that you look for other similar examples in the article to avoid WP:Overlinking.

@Hpesoj00: Great work with this article! It was a very informative read, and I will definitely use this as resource as I have grown very rusty with poker knowledge. Once my comments are addressed, then I will support this nomination. If possible, could you review my FLC? I know that it is very outside of interest field, but it would be great to get input from a new pair of eyes. Aoba47 (talk) 04:04, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47:

Fixed the reference ALL CAPS.
I initially linked each section as if it were a stand-alone article, but I have received feedback from several people about this now, so I have removed the extra links.
I believe that the card images do have alternative text; the images are provided via Template:Card.

Thank you! I apologize for missing this during my earlier read.

Thanks for the review. Let me know if your points are addressed. I will check out your article ASAP! Hpesoj00 (talk) 05:18, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support – Thank you for your prompt response. This was a very helpful article, and an interesting read. Aoba47 (talk) 15:36, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment quick one, it's mildly confusing in the third para of the lead which states "There are nine hand categories ..." and "...when using all nine hand categories." when ten categories are listed. I know one uses a wild card, but that isn't 100% clear. I'll do a proper review in due course! The Rambling Man (talk) 22:02, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: I've tried to clarify. Looking forward to the rest of your review! Hpesoj00 (talk) 01:21, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

N

I would like to see some sort of ref for "categories". I don't think I've heard of "hand categories in poker", just of "hands in poker".
for an article of this type please add a footnote showing how "There are 311,875,200 ways to deal five cards from the deck but only 2,598,960 distinct hands" is mathematically reached. probably same for 7,462

"when using nine hand categories" you mean when excluding 5-of-a-kind? just say for a 52-card deck, and say that these 7k are split in 9 categories.
"Categorized as high card under ace-to-five low rules" is unclear at a first glance
each category should have an estimated chance of obtaining (i.e. how many combinations out of the 7k ones); probably add this in the table
I've seen many mahines giving better bonuses for a royal flush. this should be covered; also give % chance to get one
I remember that each pair has a name among the players. I think it would be appropriate to include them here
I think talking about lowball is confusing here. that version is extremely rare IMO so I would rather have it only briefly mentioned here, and focus instead on the normal high-to-low versions. i.e. I would say 75432 is the worst possible hand in normal play, but conversely best in lowball.

Nergaal (talk) 13:05, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Nergaal: Thanks for the feedback. Sorry for my delayed response.

This article used to be called "List of poker hands". I renamed it recently to try and be more precise. The term "hand" in poker can mean a number of different things, so I felt using the generic term "category" to disambiguate would be best. However, a quick Google search suggests that the most common usage of the term "hand category" in poker is for referring to types of incomplete hand in poker strategy (e.g. "pocket pair" or "flush draw"). Perhaps "poker hand ranking category" would be an even more precise term. However, I understand that the title of the article doesn't have to be 100% specific, so I would be happy to change it back to "List of poker hands". However, I still need to use some kind of terminology to refer to the different categories of hand used in poker hand ranking. Would it be acceptable to use "category" throughout the article to describe this concept? The commonly used terms "hand" or "ranking" seem too imprecise for the purpose of the article.
The link to the source for that number had broken. I have fixed it now.
I have changed it to "Category does not exist under ace-to-five low rules". It is explained elsewhere in the article that hands that would have fallen into these categories class as "high card" instead.
The article used to list the chance of obtaining each type of hand when dealt five cards from a 52-card deck. However, the probability of being dealt a type of hand in reality depends on the rules of the game (the article links to Poker probability which contains this information). In addition, since some categories do not exist under ace-to-five low rules, the probabilities only apply for high rules. I have chosen to list only the most generic statistics that apply for all types of poker (e.g. total number of hands, total number of ranks). Also, I would prefer not to add anything else to the table, as I would like it to be able to fit on the page on mobile devices if possible.
The article used to contain some comment about the special status of "royal flush" in video poker. However, it wasn't sourced, and I couldn't find any sources to back up the claim, so I removed it. Besides, this article is meant to be as general as possible. The specifics of video poker is probably beyond the scope of this article. In general, "royal flush" is just a nickname for the best possible straight flush, and it deserves no more special treatment than "four aces" or an "ace-high straight".
I'm not sure what you mean by "each pair". This article links to the Non-standard poker hand article which lists nicknames for specific poker hands.
I originally considered talking only about high poker in this article. However, I realised that this was my own bias at work. High-low poker is extremely popular in both online and brick-and-mortar casinos. Talking only about high poker here would not be WP:NPOV.

Thanks again for your feedback. In conclusion, I would be happy to change the name of the article back to "List of poker hands", I don't think poker hand probabilities should be listed as the article should be as generic as possible, and I do think that low rules should be discussed here to maintain WP:NPOV. Hpesoj00 (talk) 02:04, 6 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Giants2008: If I wanted to change the name of the article back to "List of poker hands", how would this affect the FLC process? Hpesoj00 (talk) 03:20, 10 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The FLC would continue as normal, so don't let that stop you. Giants2008 (Talk) 23:17, 12 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have moved the page. List of poker hand categories now redirects to List of poker hands. I'm leaving fixing of double redirects to the bots. @Nergaal: I have also changed "category" to "hand ranking category" in several places. Please let me know how you feel about the current state of the article. Hpesoj00 (talk) 05:11, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Director note – The nominator hasn't made an edit on Wikipedia since their last post here almost a month ago. With comments outstanding, we're going to have to archive the FLC soon if the user doesn't respond. Hpesoj00, if you want the FLC to continue please do let us know here. Giants2008 (Talk) 22:44, 1 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Very sorry for my lack of response. Been very busy over the Christmas period. I aim to respond soon. If you could leave the FLC open a little longer that would be great. Hpesoj00 (talk) 12:22, 2 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This nomination has been open for almost 4 months with only a single supporting editor; it additionally has seen its last substantial review over a month ago. I'm going to go ahead and close it as stalled in order to clear out the FLC queue. FLC is currently experiencing a lowered level of review activity; nominators are encouraged to review multiple other nominations for each of their own in order to ensure that all nominations receive sufficient attention. --Pres N 16:37, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been archived, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.