Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of cultural references in The Cantos/archive1
List of cultural references in The Cantos edit
An offshoot of my work on The Cantos, this is the reference work I wish I'd had 35 years ago. Filiocht | Blarneyman 14:57, May 25, 2005 (UTC)
- Wow. Is it comprehensive? -- ALoan (Talk) 15:56, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
- I may add a few minor things over the weeks and months ahead, but it's enough for the average reader. Filiocht | Blarneyman 07:18, May 26, 2005 (UTC)
- Support Likewise wow. Dsmdgold 17:57, May 25, 2005 (UTC)
- Support anyway, but I just wanted to bring up another policy question. I know over at FAC, a 50kb article (which this is) would have a hard time getting passed just because of its size. What do we think? --Dmcdevit 18:23, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
- I seem to remember that lists were an exception from the 32k rule when it used to be applied more strictly, but I can't see it now at Wikipedia:Article size. -- ALoan (Talk) 19:49, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
- I'd think they should be, because there's no way to reduce the size of something that's juat a list without compromising comprehensiveness (unless excess images can be removed). So since comprehensiveness should always trump length, it's no problem. Should this go in Wikipedia:What is a featured list? --Dmcdevit 19:56, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
- Just on a point of interest, the Cantos article, which is an FA, is 82k. Filiocht | Blarneyman 07:18, May 26, 2005 (UTC)
- I'd think they should be, because there's no way to reduce the size of something that's juat a list without compromising comprehensiveness (unless excess images can be removed). So since comprehensiveness should always trump length, it's no problem. Should this go in Wikipedia:What is a featured list? --Dmcdevit 19:56, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
- I seem to remember that lists were an exception from the 32k rule when it used to be applied more strictly, but I can't see it now at Wikipedia:Article size. -- ALoan (Talk) 19:49, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
- Support, now that I have taken out the self-reference in the first sentence. OpenToppedBus 10:46, May 26, 2005 (UTC)
- Support, superb. — mark ✎ 14:30, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
- Support, but why are some references noted like "Canto ###: context" and others like "Context - Canto ###"? --Spangineer ∞ 14:53, May 26, 2005 (UTC)
- I've clarified my consistency concerns on the article's talk page. --Spangineer ∞ 16:08, May 26, 2005 (UTC)
- Because some of the items in the list are referenced in different cantos for different reasons. Generally, Context - Canto### is a general context followed by cantos in which the person/place/thing is named. Canto ###:COntext is used for a specific quotation from or aspect of the person/place/thing is cited in the canto or cantos indicated. The Cantos is a complex work and the list somewhat reflects this reality, I'm afraid. Filiocht | Blarneyman 07:30, May 27, 2005 (UTC)
- I realize that it's complex, but I'm not convinced that it's impossible to create a mostly consistent format. Perhaps there will need to be an exception here and there, but right now I feel like the list is in disarray with respect to formatting. I suggested one possibility on the talk page; what do you think about it? --Spangineer ∞ 10:47, May 27, 2005 (UTC)
- I think it contains some misunderstanding of what the list is doing, though I could easily be wrong. The quotes are not "famous quotes"; they are quotes that occur in specific cantos (the poem is partly collage). Many of them appear in a number of cantos, forming a kind of leitmotiv, frequently echoing other phrases used or created by Pound (see, for example, all the references to the philosophy of light) (the collage is equally fugal). What you see as disarray, I view as a means of reflecting how a reader would need to access the information while reading the poem, offering paths through the key strands in the fugue. At the same time, it provides context for many of the figures, especially the less well-known ones and/or the ones we have no articles for. If you (and others) really feel there is an unsurmountable problem, I'll withdraw the nomination for a rethink. Filiocht | Blarneyman 11:00, May 27, 2005 (UTC)
- I understood that the quotes come from the cantos themselves, so that's why I thought it would make sense to first reference all of the Cantos that the character appears in, and then more specifically, if there's anything important at all (quote, topic, whatever) that needs a reference to a specific canto, mention it and put the canto in parenthesis after it. Also, just to clarify, I'm not suggesting that any actual content be added or removed, I just want to move around what is already there. If one character has less information, that's fine, just put it in where it should go according to the standard and leave it. Additionally, while I do see this as a problem that should be addressed, and I admit that I still do not understand why it cannot easily be done (perhaps because I have never read The Cantos), I continue supporting the nomination because of the quality of its content. I continue to hope however that this can be worked out in the future, perhaps after this attains featured status. --Spangineer ∞ 17:41, May 27, 2005 (UTC)
To clarify, when I say "character" I mean character/place/philosophy/whatever is being alphabetized on the list. Also, I don't mean to limit any specific topic/quote to a "specific canto" if it is mentioned in more than one; just reference all of them. --Spangineer ∞ 18:00, May 27, 2005 (UTC)- Just wondering if there is an issue with this for more people and if this nomination should be withdrawn. Most of the discussion is on Talk:List of cultural references in The Cantos. I can't see what the problem is, but then I wouldn't, would I? More input would be good. Filiocht | Blarneyman 12:12, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)
- I understood that the quotes come from the cantos themselves, so that's why I thought it would make sense to first reference all of the Cantos that the character appears in, and then more specifically, if there's anything important at all (quote, topic, whatever) that needs a reference to a specific canto, mention it and put the canto in parenthesis after it. Also, just to clarify, I'm not suggesting that any actual content be added or removed, I just want to move around what is already there. If one character has less information, that's fine, just put it in where it should go according to the standard and leave it. Additionally, while I do see this as a problem that should be addressed, and I admit that I still do not understand why it cannot easily be done (perhaps because I have never read The Cantos), I continue supporting the nomination because of the quality of its content. I continue to hope however that this can be worked out in the future, perhaps after this attains featured status. --Spangineer ∞ 17:41, May 27, 2005 (UTC)
- I think it contains some misunderstanding of what the list is doing, though I could easily be wrong. The quotes are not "famous quotes"; they are quotes that occur in specific cantos (the poem is partly collage). Many of them appear in a number of cantos, forming a kind of leitmotiv, frequently echoing other phrases used or created by Pound (see, for example, all the references to the philosophy of light) (the collage is equally fugal). What you see as disarray, I view as a means of reflecting how a reader would need to access the information while reading the poem, offering paths through the key strands in the fugue. At the same time, it provides context for many of the figures, especially the less well-known ones and/or the ones we have no articles for. If you (and others) really feel there is an unsurmountable problem, I'll withdraw the nomination for a rethink. Filiocht | Blarneyman 11:00, May 27, 2005 (UTC)
- I realize that it's complex, but I'm not convinced that it's impossible to create a mostly consistent format. Perhaps there will need to be an exception here and there, but right now I feel like the list is in disarray with respect to formatting. I suggested one possibility on the talk page; what do you think about it? --Spangineer ∞ 10:47, May 27, 2005 (UTC)
- Support, great list! Someone should create a similar list for Dante's The Divine Comedy. Paul August ☎ 11:38, May 27, 2005 (UTC)
- Actually, that's a terrific idea, and I may well start on it soon. I have the old Temple Classics bilingual edition at home, which would be a pretty good reference to start with. Filiocht | Blarneyman 11:45, May 27, 2005 (UTC)
- Support. My gut feeling is that this list (or anything like it for this work) is unique to Wikipedia, which is a definite plus as far as I'm concerned. Courtland 01:56, 2005 May 30 (UTC)
- You know, I hadn't really thought of it that way, but I think you may be right. There are a few really good reference books, but almost nothing comprehensive online. Filiocht | Blarneyman 10:15, May 30, 2005 (UTC)
- Support. I didn't think this featured list thing was worth much till I looked at this list. This is truly impressive, and a great compliment and even enhancement to The Cantos. - Taxman Talk
- Support(the list, not the work) Superm401 | Talk 02:45, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)
- Support. This must be a paragon of literary lists. --Theo (Talk) 09:24, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Support Excellent Tuf-Kat 01:21, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)