Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of birds of Tasmania/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 15:20, 14 June 2010 [1].

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List of birds of Tasmania

List of birds of Tasmania (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured list candidates/List of birds of Tasmania/archive1

Nominator(s): Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:31, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe its standard is at or near one of the other 18 Featured Lists so far from the birds wikiproject. It is comprehensive, clearly defined and complete (well, until the next unusual bird is found in Tassie anyway), and laid out nice. Have at it. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:31, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Comments (haven't checked the main list part carefully):

• There are three links to disambiguation pages.
• Why don't you have more images?

I've been trying to hunt down good ones not currently used on en.wp, so we don't repeat. Amm adding. Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:38, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Looking forward to it. Pretty pictures btw. bamse (talk) 07:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

• Specific references 2 and 3 should probably go into a "Notes" section.

Tweaked so species footnotes are in separate section. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:11, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Better, but note 1 does not match label "(E)". Or does note 1 mean, that there exists a supspecies which is endemic? Spell out "1" in note 2 and remove one of the three "only" in note 3. Not sure how to understand "Although" in note 4; please clarify. bamse (talk) 07:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I just removed that - as it looks like there are more than four anyway. All it means is that some species with ranges of Tasmanian and somewhere else, the form in Tasmania is only found there Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:40, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

• There appears to be an excessive apostrophe at Pachyptila belcheri.

fixed Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:07, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

• Sometimes you use "- (E)" and sometimes without the hyphen. Please decide for one or the other.

oops. hyphens removed Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:07, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

• Intro needs some work:
  • Featured lists are not started like "This is a list..." anymore. Have a look at other current nominations or recently featured lists. Also bold face is not necessary.

okay, tweaked and bold removed Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:02, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Better start, but intro still needs some tweaking. bamse (talk) 07:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

There are some very short paragraphs which should be merged or expanded for instance. bamse (talk) 09:24, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Have merged into to large paragraphs - first on species and second on geography. The few sentences discussing the acronyms I cannot fit into anywhere really. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:03, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Better, though I don't fancy the passive voice in several sentences. Could you get rid of it by specifying who designates EBAs and by rewording the sentences with "are defined", "are considered"... (by whom)? Also, what does "which cover much of the island." refer to (rainforests only or eucalyptus forests and rainforests together)? bamse (talk) 21:19, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

• • The sentence: "For subantarctic Macquarie Island, politically part of the Tasmania, see Birds of Macquarie Island.", should go into a Template:For at the top of the article in my opinion.

good idea. done. Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:02, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

• • There is some inconsistency at several places in the intro regarding extinct species. For instance you write: "all species listed below are considered to occur regularly in Tasmania", which obviously does not include the listed extinct species. Please check for proper tense in this and other sentences.
  • Is an "uncommon vagrant" the same as a "vagrant" for the purpose of this list?

yes. just varied a little for variety of prose Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:05, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

If it could lead to confusion, I'd suggest removing the "uncommen". bamse (talk) 07:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Done. I realised that as "uncommon", "rare" and/or "occasional" are automatically implied when one uses the word "vagrant", their presence is thus superfluous and hence I removed all. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:39, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

• • Not sure how coastlines and offshore islands translate to a "diverse haven". It rather sounds like similar habitats to me.

aha - beaches, cliffs, estuaries, marshes etc. are all coastal. I do appreciate your point and will see what I can add to embellish. Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:28, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Got your point, but it could be spelled out in the text to make it obvious. bamse (talk) 07:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

• • Regarding: "Its diversity has led it being classified as an Endemic Bird Area (EBA), one of 218 worldwide." Please explain in the text shortly what an EBA is. From the name I'd suspect it to be an area of many endemic bird species rather than a "diverse" area.

Added info on EBAs - more on envrionment to come Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:40, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Looking forward to it. bamse (talk) 07:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Information is present, but could you remove the ugly parantheses somehow (by connecting it to the rest of the text or putting it in a footnote. bamse (talk) 14:07, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I think information is better just following on - handy use of pronoun and removal of parentheses performed. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Looks better, but I am still confused. The Endemism in birds defines an EBA as "a region of the world that contains two or more restricted-range species". To me this is something else than this list article suggests through the use of "diversity". Please clarify. bamse (talk) 09:24, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Gosh, missed that bit in the definition on the source page. added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:52, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

PS: Misread the other source too, yes it is the 12 endemic species which led to the EBA, so "diversity" was not strictly correct. Corrected now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:16, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

• • Why not use another label (like (I/E/V)) in order to denote the endemic birds?

d'oh! I started to and forgot to rejig 'Extinct' tag. Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:28, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

• • Are there really brids marked with an asterisk? (I was looking for them but did not find any.)

oops. left over from a shoddy cut-and-paste job. removed Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:28, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

• • Is there anything special about the Tasmanian birds that could be added to the (shortish) introduction. For instance particularly many aquatic birds; large numbers of specific species or families,...

bamse (talk) 20:52, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Added about a large number of penguin species, and only two migratory parrots in the world, and the endemics are common bar one species. Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:25, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

some more comments:

• "Their system has been..." might be bad style (because of "their") in this encyclopedia but I am never sure about such things.

ditched it.Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:41, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

• How about comparing the number of species to that of some other area to provide some context. If I remember correctly, Europe has about the same amount of species.

Not a bad idea. I need to find a source which compares them directly though. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:41, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

bamse (talk) 07:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Of course it does not need to be Europe. bamse (talk) 18:10, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Still not seen a source. Part of the reason for this is that there is little literature on the subject of birds of Tasmania as a whole - and alot more on Birds of Australia (which I might tackle at a later date). Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

OK. If there are no sources, there is nothing we can do. bamse (talk) 09:24, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

• "Macquarie Island, technically a (remote) part of Tasmanian territory" - It is part of the state of Tasmania - what is technical about that? I am not sure if the bird counts in the first line of the introduction include the birds of the Macquarie Island - it sounds like it does because it says the birds of the state of Tasmania. Perhaps their should be a better explanation of the birds of this island in the introduction. Snowman (talk) 12:59, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

The bird counts are for Tasmania only (excluding macquarie island). Have reworded -what we are talking about is the island of Tasmanian and its surrounds rather than the state (which administers Macquarie Island). Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:07, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

PS: The rewording does make sense. I should have thought of "nearby" for "adjoining" Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:09, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

• "with the islands of Bass Strait facilitating crossing."; presumably the relevance here is that migrating birds can rest and feed on the islands in the Bass Straight. Is this true for the entire 10,000 years that Tasmania has been an island? Snowman (talk) 13:04, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I think so - the sea level would have only been lower between the last ice age and now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:07, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

• The footnote, "Subspecies is endemic to Tasmania"; presumably this applies to every taxa on the page that is not a monomorphic species, because they all endemic on Tasmania. Presumably, this is meant to be an attempt to point to subspecies that are endemic on Tasmania and nowhere else. The notes are from a species name on the page and not an identified subspecies, so this adds to the confusion of this footnote. This raises the question of how to deal with a polymorphic species where one of the subspecies naturally lives in the wild on Tasmania and no where else. Snowman (talk) 13:41, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Most subspecies do not have separate pages - yes I do see it as a dilemma when they do - see Tasmanian Masked Owl for one. I will reword the foot note.Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:07, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I have put a strike through the comment above, because I misunderstood what endemic meant. I had not realised the "endemic" means exclusively to one place. I think that you could explain this better on the page in case it is widely misunderstood. Do you name the subspecies? Snowman (talk) 13:41, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It is tricky in some cases - for instance, the distinctive Tasmanian subspecies of the Grey Currawong is called the Clinking Currawong, but it doesn't have its page and I think the species name trumps it for official status. Maybe the best thing is to put subspecies name and link if applicable in footnote (?) What do you think. Or should I put it on same line in list (if I put it below it will be confusing I think) Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:48, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

As far as I am aware the Galah and the Yellow-tailed Black Cockatoo both have a subspecies that naturally lives in the wild in Tasmania and nowhere else, and they are both not listed as such in the article. Snowman (talk) 15:07, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Not the Yellow-tailed Black Cockatoo -race xanthonotus is on western vic and sth australia as well as Tas. Will check on galah. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

There subspecies of Y-tBC on Tasmania is not widely accepted. Snowman (talk) 18:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that I was looking at the wrong map for the Galah - the subspecies on Tasmania is also on the Australian mainland. Snowman (talk) 10:46, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

• "^ a b c d e f g h Subspecies is endemic to Tasmania" - this count is of eight subspecies, but the introduction says 12 species and 4 subspecies are endemic to Tasmania. Needs some careful tabulation to make the page internally consistent and accurate. Snowman (talk) 14:24, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes. the published source is wrong - it notes distinctive subspecies but there are others - grey butcherbird is one, but the distinction between the mainland and Tassie forms minor. I need to go through carefully in the next day or so. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:37, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

• There is too much jargon in the introduction. Snowman (talk) 14:24, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Working on it. Am puzzling over best way to phrase 'endemic' as first off. Have removed some. Casliber (talk · contribs)

PS: The intro has been changed a bit, I am wondering about whether mentioning "taxonomic arrangement" is necessary. Do you see other examples of jargon still? Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:45, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

It is a lot better. I had to look at the linked page for "Ramsar sites". Is there anything special about the "taxonomic arrangement" used, and what science is the sequence of the list based on? Snowman (talk) 09:27, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

christidis and boles 2008 is the latest consensus publication on birds of Australia - it lists the birds in a taxonomic sequence - a 2 dimensional slice through some sort of grand cladogram to make a logical sequence. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:15, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have added some explanation for Ramsar Sites. In the lead "buttongrass" needs a wikilink, but I did not want to link it to the wrong sort of buttongrass. Does this sound correct; "buttongrass grasslands"? Snowman (talk) 13:17, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Ramsar bit looks good. I will find the correct buttongrass to link to. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:11, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

• "The following codes are used to denote certain categories of species:" - used by who? Snowman (talk) 14:33, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

well, er, me for this article..but removed as redundant Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:38, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

• I think a lot of copy-editing work is needed on this page. Some editors have a natural ability with the English language and can quickly list problems, but I find it is hard work and I think that I will opt to move-on to images and page layout elsewhere which I find much easier. I think that you would normally be able to see a lot of the problems, but I guess that you may have become too close to the work. I hope that an army of copy-editors arrive here soon. Snowman (talk) 14:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It is true that I have been staring at this page for a while and it is late and I am tired now. I will sleep on it. I trimmed some jargon and concede some flow issues make the prose disjointed, so am happy to have fresh eyes on it. Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:07, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I was trying to hunt down some tasmanian bird images that were not used on articles already for variety. Any help in this area much appreciated. good night. Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:07, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

• (I) (Ex) (V) (E) - are the brackets needed? Snowman (talk) 20:07, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

I followed the example of List of birds of South Carolina for conformity as I believe i trying to make sets of articles look the same. I have no strong opinion otherwise. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:28, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I am not sure either way, but it is probably best for wiki lists to have a consistent format. Snowman (talk) 14:45, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Strongly agree, I haven't checked all other bird lists yet. Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:09, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

• Is it worth giving information on the biggest bird and the smallest bird in TasmaniaSnowman (talk) 20:55, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

I haven't seen them discussed anywhere but if they are I'd be happy to add. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:28, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I meant saying what the biggest bird and the smallest bird species are. Snowman (talk) 14:47, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

So did I. It is not recorded in the tas bird book I have, nor on any Tas. lists I have seen. Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:09, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

• Can anything go in the empty boxes in the status columns in the tables? Snowman (talk) 20:59, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Yikes! where'd all those tables come from?? I felt it looked better plain white without all the lines like an excel document, but your view may vary. Not sure what could go in, 'R' for resident and maybe noting summer visitors etc., but there'd be alot of 'R's Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:28, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I was following the format of other bird lists, which seems to be used quite a lot. The third column is used quite a lot here, so I think that the table helps a quick visual scan. If you think the flat list was better, then use the flat list. Snowman (talk) 14:45, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

In the interests of consistency then, hadn't seen the boxes on recent promotions. Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:09, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

PS: That format was only used in the Thailand and Vieques lists alone (out of 18), so I think we should maybe look at those. Sorry to revert you snowman, I think I got your other non-table changes back in. Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:40, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

The other current FLC is "List of birds of Leicestershire and Rutland" and that has a tables, so format specifications are rather puzzling for reviewers. Snowman (talk) 18:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I am surprised by that and will take a look. Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:43, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Thailand and Leicestershire are both mine. I prefer tables because I usually give a status and it looks neater. It's not a rule however. Having said that, the numbers thing is imho irrelevant anyway, many of the older lists would probably struggle with the current criteria Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:08, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

• To reduce confusion I think it is probably worth mentioning differences between the Australian common names and the IOC names. The "what links here" on a species page will not show this page under a redirected page for birds listed here with different names than the page names. Snowman (talk) 09:29, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Are there any differences still? I thought we'd changed them all to IOC by now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:17, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Shrike-thrushs are all Shrikethrushs. Snowman (talk) 22:19, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

I remain puzzled by the number of species names that are redirects, and Rockhopper Penguin is a redirect that leads to a dab page. Snowman (talk) 12:26, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Which of the three Rockhopper Penguins on the dab live in Tasmania? Snowman (talk) 10:39, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

• Should there be fullstops after each letter of HANZAB? Snowman (talk) 19:07, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Good question. Answer, I'm not sure. I have always seen it written without fullstops - not sure what the rule about when acronyms become commonly used do we lose stops etc. Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:32, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I have never seen it written with fullstops. I think that when an acronym is pronounced as a word rather than spelling it out, then fullstops are redundant. Maias (talk) 03:25, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

• (I) (Ex) (V) (E) - Do these need to be emboldened? This seems to be overuse of emboldened text and may not be in-line with MoS. Snowman (talk) 09:24, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I just copied what had been done elsewhere in the interests of conformity. I think a case can be argued either way. Do you think they are any less visible not bold? Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:19, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Depends on what lists you look at; see List of birds of Wallis and Futuna and List of birds of French Polynesia. MoS says to avoid excess emboldened text; what is the counter argument? Snowman (talk) 22:14, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

None. De-bolded by you so you can strike now to make navigating this page easier (I just followed other lists - personally I do think the bold looks slightly better but am not fussed). Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:09, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I would go with emboldened or un-emboldened, but this is FLC, and when in doubt I think it is best to go with MoS. I am quite pleased with the complete lack of distracting emboldened text in the modified version, so MoS application seems beneficial to me here. Snowman (talk) 12:22, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

• "introduced to Tasmania by the actions of man, either directly or indirectly"; What is an indirect introduction? Can you give examples of indirect introduction to Tasmania? Snowman (talk) 15:14, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Cattle Egret has spread around the world following suitable habitat. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:17, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I would say that this is not explained well enough in the article. I guessed that direct meant intentional, such as the planned introduction of Cassowaries; and indirectly meant accidental or unintentional, such as a birds got on a ship and no one noticed, and they all hopped on land at Hobart. Snowman (talk) 22:14, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually that should be struck as we dont' call teh Cattle Egret intriduced. So will delete unnecessary complicating add-on. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:09, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

• Consistency of captions to images - some have the common name wikilinked and some without a wikilink. Some have the binomial name as well and some have the trinominal name. Snowman (talk) 12:59, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Now fixed. Snowman (talk) 10:37, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

• Looks like it needs a infobox or an image in the lead. This is being discussed on the talk page. Snowman (talk) 13:07, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Support: I edit bird pages and I have tried to be objective to reduce any conflict of interest. I think that only a few minor issues remain and I expect these will be fixed soon. I think that the list has shaped up and looks good and that it has reached FL standard. Snowman (talk) 23:23, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Support. This is high quality list, which I am happy to support. Ruslik_Zero 19:44, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Ruslik_Zero 19:44, 12 June 2010 (UTC))

Question. Why do you sometimes use 'bill' and sometimes 'beak'? Ruslik_Zero 18:29, 30 May 2010 (UTC) no reason = I have always understood the terms are interchangeable. I can stick to one. Have asked at the birds wikiproject. Intriguing question actually.... Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC) I'd thought it looked funny describing a bird with a hooked "bill", and I found out why Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:04, 31 May 2010 (UTC) In addition, the article says that 12 species are endemic, but only 11 are marked with (E) in the list? Ruslik_Zero 18:34, 30 May 2010 (UTC) always overlooking the little brown birds....missed scrubtit. now rectified. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:03, 30 May 2010 (UTC) Comment2. The lead says there are 96 vagrant species, but only 79 are marked with (V). Ruslik_Zero 15:03, 12 June 2010 (UTC) bother, that comes of using out of date numbers. Funny how more birds turn up. and more vagrants become more 'regular' when folks find them more often - adjusted now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:08, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Support looks pretty good (COI - member of bird project) Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:07, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

• Shouldn't the Emu be classified as extinct as well as (re)introduced? They were exterminated in Tas by 1865 (ref HANZAB 1, p.49.). Maias (talk) 01:42, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

• Tasmanian Emu (Dromaius novaehollandiae diemenensis) has its own page. Presumably a different subspecies was reintroduced. It looks odd that a bird is listed as extinct (it does not say locally extinct) and then reintroduced. More details needs to make the page logical. Snowman (talk) 11:04, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

• According to Christidis and Boles, the status of the Tasmanian Emu is unclear as to whether it is separate subspecies or not. They just include it with the (living) species. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:47, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

• The classification of the Emu is more complicated than I thought. However, it is impossible for an animal to be (Ex) and the be (I). If an animal is extinct, then there are no living specimens for a re-introduction. Was it a re-introduction or an introduction? Snowman (talk) 13:53, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

• There are no Tasmanian emus. period. it was an introduction of mainland birds. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:27, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

• I have checked what the article says. The following appears on the page; "Emu, Dromaius novaehollandiae (Ex) (I)", and the key at the top of the page says "(Ex)" means an extinct species. This line is confusing. If the Emu was extinct, then there would not have been any Emus anywhere for a reintroduction, and if it is Extinct then there would be no Emus in Australia or anywhere else. The Tasmanian subspecies (if there was one) may have become extinct, but the key specifically says that (Ex) refers to the species. I think the word is extirpated for the disappearance of a species from a locality, and that extirpated would be the correct word to use if the Tasmanian Emus were the same taxa as the mainland Emus. You could add (Ep) to the key to indicate extirpation from Tasmania. Snowman (talk) 15:26, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

• It does get confusing. I have decided the best thing to do is a footnote and use the (I) as all extant birds are introduced. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:48, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

• Willie Wagtail should be there as a vagrant (ref HANZAB 7, p.228.). Maias (talk) 01:50, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
• White-breasted Woodswallow should be clasified as a vagrant (ref HANZAB 7, p.402.). Maias (talk) 01:56, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

added/fixed Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:23, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

• The part about emu extinctions reads like the King Island Emu went extinct much later than the emu on Tasmania, but in fact it was extinct by 1822 and the Tasmanian emu survived more than 40 years longer. Ucucha 06:38, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Reworded and clarified Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:42, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

• Just noted that HANZAB 2 (1993) mentions feral populations on King Island (mainly) of Turkey Meleagris gallopavo (p.355), Indian Peafowl Pavo cristatus (p.373), and Common Pheasant Phasianus colchius (p.377). Maias (talk) 06:16, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

thanks. Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:24, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Support — Know jack all about birdos; however, this list was quite interesting, if only some of the specific articles were better. Aaroncrick ^TALK 07:36, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, I am glad that you found it quite interesting. Snowman (talk) 12:34, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Support seems a fine list; all comments addressed. Ucucha 06:10, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

• Comments—
• would it make more sense to place the sentence "The common and scientific names and taxonomic arrangement follow the conventions laid out in the 2008 publication Systematics and Taxonomy of Australian Birds." in the third paragraph of the lead, which gives the format for this list, rather than the first, which introduces Tasmanian birds in general?

Yes, good idea and done. It balances the paras better too. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:32, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

• 2nd para: perhaps make clear that the Bass Strait islands are between Tas and mainland Aus

"between the two landmasses" added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:25, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

• Are you excluding species that became extinct before European settlement? (If there are any.)

No, I have not seen any literature on them at all (much different situation to, say, New Zealand) Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:32, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps then replace the language in the lead about species recorded since European settlement? Ucucha 05:41, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Aha, looking on google, there is some material from older - hence we have dromornithid tracks from late oligocene and probably some others. So might be better in than out. Alternatively I could just say extant species and remove extinct ones. Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:37, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

To me, it would make most sense to include everything that occurred there during the Holocene—i.e., approximately the natural modern fauna before we humans started to remove components of it. Oligocene fossils are an entirely different matter. But it's really not important if there are no Holocene, pre-European contact extinctions. Ucucha 07:50, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

• Might it be clearer to place the footnote about the Emu in the text about the Casuariidae?

I had placed it there as a direct explanatory note for the letter, but could do that I guess Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:11, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

• When you say that frogmouths occur in the "Austro-Papuan region" and owlet-nightjars in the "Austronesian region", do you mean something different?

Actually just replaced them with countries. Frogmouths are tricky as range depends on whether there are one family or two. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:31, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

• I think you assume a bit too much birding vocabulary as known, for example in the paragraph about petrels, where you talk about the septum and a primary.

wikilinked and a couple of extra words to explain Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:36, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

• In the Scolopacidae, you say there are four vagrants; I count five.

oops. fixed Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:58, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

• You say there are two species of barn owls, but I only count one.

was thinking of barn owl, but it doesn't occur there. fixed Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:24, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

• You say there are five species of acanthizids, but I count six. There are also three instead of two endemics in the list.

oops. fixed Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:58, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

• Why don't you tell us anything about pardalotes and acanthizids?

It's classified author fatigue and forgetfulness. Fixed now Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:58, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

• Same with the quail-thrushes, which only get some taxonomy and no information about the birds themselves.

oops. fixed Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:11, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

The taxonomy here is evidently problematic, but I don't quite understand it. You say the quail-thrushes are sometimes classified in their own family, but according to the Cinclosomatidae article even the narrowest definition also includes jewel-babblers (Ptilorrhoa). Then you say that they are sometimes included with the mainland family Psophodidae. If that means mainland Australian, it's an odd choice of words since quail-thrushes also occur there. And then Psophodes says it is classified in Cinclosomatidae, which according to the Cinclosomatidae page is impossible because Psophodidae has priority over Cinclosomatidae. Ucucha 05:41, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

I fixed this page anyway - removed "mainland" as misleading. Added that jewel-babblers are in same family. Have to make a proper Psophodidae page at some stage. Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:30, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

• Also for the monarchs, which get no introductory text at all.

oops. fixed Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:11, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

You now say the one species is a vagrant, but it's not marked as such. Ucucha 05:41, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Was writing on auto-pilot. fixed. Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:24, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

• Some consistency problems in refs: initials before or after name, & or and between names.

oops. fixed Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:58, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Ucucha 05:14, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

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