Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of World Chess Championships/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:26, 2 March 2024 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of World Chess Championships edit

Featured list candidates/List of World Chess Championships/archive1

Nominator(s): Remsense诉 05:20, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list—my first such nomination—because I'm fairly sure it is at the "nomination-ready" stage regarding the criteria, as it were. I expect a reasonable number of questions regarding the layout and scope, but I've gone over it multiple times and am pretty locked in. There's nowhere else that has all this information on one page—many books about the WCC are segmented in the 1970s (as far as I can tell)—the peak of US interest in the sport, with Fischer and whatnot. I wonder if additional dimensions could be added, namely time control, but there I fear getting crufty and falling down another research hole.

I've tried to keep the prose brief and specific, as to not be redundant with the already fairly good World Chess Championship—I've written what I think people needing the list may specifically need.

Anyway, big for a first nomination. I hope I've calculated this correctly...Remsense 诉 05:20, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey man im josh

Thank you so much for putting the work in and nominating your first list @Remsense! Based on our interactions in the past, I'm confident you won't be offended by the criticisms the list receives and I very much hope this won't be your last.

A few notes I have so far;

Accessibility is an issue
- You seem to have column scopes in the tables but no row scopes. See PresN's standard comment here for some advice.
- Images need alt text which explains what the images are of
Add |url-access=subscription to the references to New York Times and to any other reference that requires a subscription
Perhaps an extra sentence to explain why the championship was not recognized. I see that it says the title was not at stake, was there a misunderstanding about who the current champion was? Was it an unrecognized event for the title?

I intend to review this more thoroughly later on, but I've had this open all day and find myself busy with other tasks. I wanted to give you a chance to work on a few things I had noticed before I go more in depth. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:39, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey man im josh, thank you for the points so far!

Fixed row scopes. I read the relevant pages on tables, and I thought row scopes were only necessary when there were row headers, as was seemingly a distinction in all the examples I saw. But now I see what they do.
Added |alt= text—I also supposed the captions were sufficient for screenreader purposes as to not potentially clutter the experience, but I do see how wanted information may have been missing.
Fixed the |url-access= parameters.

— Remsense诉 02:56, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey @Remsense, couple more notes

You actually need to use ! scope="row" instead of | scope="row"
Some users prefer to wikilink the publisher / source in every reference, but you should at least due it at the first occurrence within references. For instance, the NY Times are mentioned 8 times, either wikilink the first occurence, or all of them, and add wikilinks where appropriate.
Ref 78 says "New York Times" whereas the other 7 occurrences say "The New York Times". Please make this consistent with the others.

I'm not familiar with ref formatting for books, so I can't evaluate that. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:03, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey man im josh, thank you again! Implemented all your additional changes. I've now properly located WP:DTT, apologies for not properly referencing it before! — Remsense诉 21:33, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

By the way—is it advisable that anything be done about the bolding of the row headers? It just looks very odd to me. — Remsense诉 22:08, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remsense, class="wikitable plainrowheaders" will make that change, and I do that for some of my tables, but most FLs have bolding in the first column. - Dank (push to talk) 15:39, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To be clear, since I forgot to actually come back and comment it, I support. Hey man im josh (talk) 15:28, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Grungaloo

Hey, great list! I have a few notes on prose and other things:

"A split from FIDE resulted in two competing titles" - Unclear what was split, what was the other organization that split off?
"the conceit of an international chess match or tournament did not occur until the 18th century," - Swap "conceit" for "idea", it's more accessible language.
"there had not yet been a match played for any formal title as such before 1886." - "as such" can be dropped.
1935 - "13 cities", the footnote only lists 12 cities.
" series of Zonal and Interzonal tournaments would be held" - Zonal/Interzonal should probably be wikilinked (I had to look up what they were :D )
" each challenger had also been a Soviet citizen." - Each challenger was a Soviet citizen? It looks like they were all Soviet at the time of play, the way it's worded sounds like they may not have been citizens at the time of the match.
"Fischer never played another game under the auspices of FIDE." - "another game organized by the FIDE". Easier for general readers to understand.
"defeated Karpov in their rematch: over the following decade," - Colon should just be a full stop.
", and Candidates tournaments, The 1998 event would be the first" - I think this should be a period before "The 1998"
"first in a series of singular single-elimination tournaments," - What's meant by a "singular" here? Maybe explain this a bit for clarity.
Unrecognized championship events - maybe explain what Edward Winter's research found, that contemporary sources don't refer to it as a world championship.

Great work all around, ping me if you have questions about what I've wrote! grungaloo (talk) 23:08, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Grungaloo,

Rechecked the source, and corrected the typo—1935 was played in only 12 Dutch cities.
Unclear what was split—this one is tricky! The story is that the world champion Garry Kasparov and challenger Nigel Short both split from FIDE in the lead up to the '93 championship, forming the Professional Chess Association (PCA). The issue is that this organization only existed for three years from '93 to '96, after which there was no formal organization that oversaw what we call the "Classical title"—i.e. the champion who directly beat the extant champion. Kasparov beat Karpov in '85, and Kramnik beat Kasparov in 2000. However, there was absolutely a split title, and (this is OR) if they had to pick one, most people really saw Kasparov, then later Kramnik as the de facto World Champion during this time. I wasn't sure how to accurately express this without specifically naming Kasparov, which felt out of place given no one else is mentioned by name in the lead. I'll think about it.

I will be implementing your other prose suggestions shortly. Thank you very much. — Remsense诉 03:08, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And I have now done so. Thank you again! — Remsense诉 05:44, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support - It looks awesome! For the split, here's my idea (just a suggestion of course): In 1993, the short-lived Professional Chess Association split from the FIDE due to disputes over the tournament format, and as a result there were two competing World Championship titles between 1993 and 2006..

I also think it would be ok to mention Kasparov. Since he was directly responsible for the split it wouldn't seem out of place to name him even if the lead doesn't have over names, IMO.

Anyway, great work! grungaloo (talk) 19:20, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Accessibility review (MOS:DTAB) edit

Tables need captions, which allow screen reader software to jump straight to named tables without having to read out all of the text before it each time. Visual captions can be added by putting |+ caption_text as the first line of the table code; if that caption would duplicate a nearby section header, you can make it screen-reader-only by putting |+ {{sronly|caption_text}} instead.
Please see MOS:DTAB for example table code if this isn't clear. I don't return to these reviews until the nomination is ready to close, so ping me if you have any questions. --Pres N 03:34, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Added captions to tables previously lacking them, thank you! Remsense诉 20:57, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review passed; promoting. --Pres N 21:27, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

thank you so much, and also to Hey man im josh et al. for encouraging me! Remsense诉 23:57, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.