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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of US Open Men's Singles champions/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 15:50, 6 October 2009 [1].

List of US Open Men's Singles champions

edit
Nominator(s): Bluedogtn (talk)
Toolbox
Note:All TW-RF on this page is bluedogtnBLuEDOgTn 04:51, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list per the discussion on WT:FLC. Cheetah (talk) 02:06, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I read the opening intro and all is correct to my inspection of this list, and it has illustrated the diffrences in the start till 1911 in the way the tournament was won and played.TW-RF (talk) 20:52, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support (but too many exclamation points ;) Mm40 (talk) 22:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Mm40 (talk)
Comments
  • It does not appear that you have made any edits to the page. I would notify the three main contributers.
I did not, but I worked with Don Lope in order to create these pages! I am busy trying to get other articles up to par in tennis! TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 20:29, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What, Please, Explain? TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 20:29, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Someone has fixed this! TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 21:20, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "…championships opened to international competition." I think "competitors" would be more exact.
I agree with this! TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 20:29, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Changed This! TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 20:42, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the tables and key, symbols should be subscripted (<sup> </sup>).
Actually go look at this navbox of featured content to see why this is not the case and is not done on these!

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 20:29, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I know the info will be added soon, but why is a question mark linked for 2009? I assume people know what question marks are.
It is about to be determined tomorrow, which means we do this a little bit in advance, but I will take it out if you want me to! I see no reason to do this because in 28 hours plus or minus a couple hours it will be filled in! TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 20:29, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
They can click on the 2009, which would explain this to the user! TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 21:23, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • References are needed in the table. They can be put in the top of the table as long as they prove everything in that column.
They are actually at the bottom of the page, but what do you mean about the table? TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 20:29, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I will go ahead and do this but it will duplicate it! TW-RF
  • In ref 5, alphabetize the authors by last name.
I will do this tommorrow! TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 20:29, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Addressed! TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 20:42, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done! TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 21:48, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

After these issues and any others that are brought up are resolved, I'll gladly support. Mm40 (talk) 11:24, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:36, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Someone did it already. Mm40 (talk) 22:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Procedural comment - If TW-RF is addressing these changes (even if it's from IP) he should be put as nominator and his support should be struck (as nominators support is presumed). Rambo's Revenge (talk) 23:35, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I took away my support and left my comment, which is legit. Thanks for pointing that out. TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 00:05, 14 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Oppose

I went in addressed the tie-breaks issues in it to match Wimbledon. TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 00:05, 14 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'll come back an re-review this after tomorrows final has been played and everything's been updated. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 23:35, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Rambo's Revenge (talk · contribs)
*Not that it matters but MoS seems to prefer U.S. to US, which would affect a few things, might be worth double checking at least.
Wrong, it is not called the U.S. Open it is the US Open with out periods, so it is justified. Go look here US OpenTW-RF (talk) 21:54, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I wrote the comment then found this out, and thought I'd removed it before saving. Obviously not, and you are quite correct. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 22:28, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The men's singles was the first event contested in 1881." very stubby sentence. Considering you mention the year in the previous sentence I feel this can be better integrated.
I agree this needs to be addressed.TW-RF (talk) 21:54, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I took this out, and left the reference since it goes with the opening sentence...Corrected:Took-out.TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluedogtn (talk • contribs) 01:19, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "reserved to United States National Lawn Tennis Association (USNLTA) clubs members", I'm not really sure (might be a language diff.) but this sounds wrong to me. Isn't is reserved for ... club members
Go look at the source it will explain for the long usage.TW-RF (talk) 21:54, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I meant shouldn't it be "for..." instead of "to..." Rambo's Revenge (talk) 22:29, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I corrected it.
  • "played at the best-of-three sets" - played as the best-of-three...?
Correct also, you are right. Corrected TW-RF
  • "Best-of-three sets matches" - I think it is just set, because you have a three set match.
Corrected.
Should be best two out of three sets.TW-RF (talk) 22:43, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "five games – all took" is this the way to write it? The spaced ndash to me indicates separation.
I don't get that either.TW-RF (talk) 22:46, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I fixed this and the dash is not imperative here, and I removed the dash and left a space! FIXED...TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluedogtn (talk • contribs) 01:16, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Reading this BBC article on tennis scoring it seems it is "five-games-all". I have changed it and struck this accordingly. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 21:37, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "which were won with six games and a two games advantage" - this isn't very clear, say something like carried on until a two-game advantage was reached or something.
Will doTW-RF (talk) 22:46, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This should be "a two or more game (not games) advantage", because the advantage is singular. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 16:40, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Corrected this...TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluedogtn (talk • contribs) 01:05, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I copyedited this bit further. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 21:37, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neither of the anchors to sudden and lingering death work.
Lingering death did work when I checked it, but I correct the sudden death link.TW-RF (talk) 23:05, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What I mean is link to the term, put "#lingering death" instaed of "#L" and "#sudden death" instead of "#S". Rambo's Revenge (talk) 16:40, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's a virtual impossibility it must be the heading of a section in order to do this, but that would be out of protocol for this article. Have your try at it! TW-RF. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluedogtn (talk • contribs) 01:01, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed IT.TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluedogtn (talk • contribs) 01:16, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It does not meet it, will be removed immediately.TW-RF (talk) 23:05, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 2 has a messed up accessdate
Fixed.TW-RF (talk) 23:09, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have enough experience to do this, but I will try tomorrow!TW-RF (talk) 23:12, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I tried unsuccessfully to do this someone else needs to try!TW-RF (talk) 17:36, 23 September 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 17:36, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry, I've sorted this. Anything with a url always needs an accessdate. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 16:40, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Rambo's Revenge (talk) 21:07, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support. All issues resolved. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 21:48, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved issues,BLuEDOgTN 23:02, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
Oppose. There seem to be new changes to the list, that have been implemented undiscussed and affect this candidacy. The opening line now reads "The U.S. National Championships–US Open" which I think is an awful start and alot worse than before. You already have the note explaining what it used to be called. Also I don't like that the table has been split in two. That reduces the usefulness of the sortability as sorting won't group players who have won in the Amateur and Open eras. Also I gather from my talk page you are looking to change the list's title. This should be discussed here. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 11:55, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I can explain the need for this change, go look at the grand slam sites on wikipedia, and see the way they split the records. Go look at the doubles lists on wikipedia to see the spliting up of pre and post open era. This has not alway been the same tournament like the golfing articles with the exception of the PGA. I looked at the PGA and took the ideal from matchplay to strokeplay. How come their is two navboxes for each, and is this evidence enough to split them up. I would prefer a different title to this article and to split this into two articles if we have to go down that route because it is the U.S. National Championships Pre-1968 and Post-1967 it is the US Open and one signifies Amateurs only and the other Professionals are allowed to compete. Plus, the records cannot be lumped together like Don Lope tried to do to be like golf, but tennis has eras and it matters, and I made this reflective in the last two paragraphs. So my questions are why split navboxes and the stuff on the slam pages, as well as, the doubles pages, and not have the wikitables on these to be split to signify a departure from the previous version of the tournament. Either, we combine everything which would be unjust or leave it separate! I don't care about sortability over historical significance. I think the opening can be redone since it is bulky US.NAT-US Open because of the tag. My preference would be to have two separate articles, but if not this is my second choice over how to do this. I did this for all pages that Don Lope did not go and research and see the difference of eras and the way navboxes are split up on wikipedia, and their is a reason for this. Your can't call someone who won pre an Open Champion nor post a National Champion either. Thanks.BLuEDOgTn 20:59, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (17–14) 20:32, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • "The US Open is played during two weeks in late August, early September, and has...". For one less comma, try "is played during two weeks in late August and early September".
Fixed TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 17:36, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "was reserved for United States National Lawn Tennis Association clubs members, before the championships opened to international competitors." First, "clubs" is faulty; it should be either "club" or "club's". Second, what year was the tournament opened to international players?
Corrected TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 17:36, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove comma after "which were won by the player".
Did That TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 17:36, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is it worth mentioning that the US Open was the first Grand Slam to have tie-breakers?
No. TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 17:36, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I will say that it is worth mentioning this slam is the only one to have a fifth set tie-breaker. TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 17:36, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If this is mentioned, make clear that a fifth-set tie-breaker has not occured yet in a final. Giants2008 (17–14) 19:22, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Did this...Fixed. TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluedogtn (talk • contribs) 01:21, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can the lead be updated with 2009 prize money?
Already has... TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 17:36, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The licensing tag for the Richard Norris Williams photo is incorrect. A look at the photo it was cropped from shows that it is from the Bain collection, and the tag should state as much. The uploader himself didn't release it into the public domain. Giants2008 (17–14) 21:52, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Fix this Giants2008, Please, I don't know how. TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk • contribs) 17:36, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'll go on Commons and take a look when I get a chance, although I'm not that knowledgeable about their formatting. Giants2008 (17–14) 19:22, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Giants2008 (17–14) 19:12, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I believe this one is about done. TW-RF —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluedogtn (talk • contribs) 01:22, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Meets FL standards after the fixes, though I will admit to being confused over the multiple accounts thing. Giants2008 (17–14) 20:32, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I think once all the other points are addressed this will be of the required standard. Spiderone 08:04, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I assume all the things mentioned above are fixed. Aaroncrick (talk) 05:41, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:27, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
*Note The nominator of this FLC has seemingly retired – can someone take over this FLC? Dabomb87 (talk) 01:26, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The editor has since indicated that he/she will continue to keep track of the FLC. Dabomb87 (talk) 13:58, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

  • "which were won by the player who had at least six games and at least two games more than his opponent" What does it mean to "have" a game?
There is not any significance to this at all.BLuEDOgTn 23:27, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • You should probably clarify in the alt text that the people are tennis players.
Where is this because it needs to be corrected if it is in fact in there, but Rambo's Revenge might have done this already?.BLuEDOgTn 23:27, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The header "Statistical information" – could this be just "Statistics"?
Changed, it could be both by title sections demand that it by Statistics. Good JOB.BLuEDOgTn 23:27, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't think there should be a space between the symbol and the words. When the symbols are right next to the words, they are more visible.
It would king of crowd the name, which is why I am guessing Don Lope left it this way.BLuEDOgTn 23:27, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, you are in fact correct, and it has been change to less violent terms.BLuEDOgTn 23:27, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:21, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues,BLuEDOgTN 23:02, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comments

Temporary Oppose: I am doing this because the scoring of tie-breaks, and the authority and governing body on tennis and the tour say it must be (2) not (7-2) to score a tie-break, period! They are the authority on scores for all tournaments and they run the slams (ITF) tour events (ATP). These are the sources here ATP Federerhere ITF Federerhere ITF Nadal and here ATP Nadal.BLuEDOgTn 01:05, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The WTA has opposing scoring for a set with respect to winners and loser than the governing body, but they do score the tiebreaks the same way. I believe Tennis governing body go look, should be the ultimate and definative source for scoring on wikipedia to avoid debate over newspapers and magazines. They did have one typo for Federer at the US Open, go catch it if you can.BLuEDOgTn 01:19, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support again, because we are going to deal with the tiebreaker issues later with the whole tennis project, which will include this.BLuEDOgTn 16:34, 2 October 2009 (UTC) I struck my support for now because the splitting of the pre and post-Open Era champions caused me to spot something important: the list makes no mention of the multiple championships held in 1968 and 1969 (Open and Amateur). This is at least worthy of a note, and a good explanation as to why the amateur winners aren't included in the appropriate table. I'd encourage the nominator to consider fixing the tie-break issue himself; in any event, it is unusual for a nominator to oppose a list they nominated. Giants2008 (17–14) 19:26, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The only list that counts for this article is the champion on the US Open site because the other is not considered apart of this at all. The reason it was split is to show when the names changed and to show the significants of it from am to pro. Further, it was to get in line with the navboxes and the way it is listed on the wikitables for those who won before and after the switch go look at Rod Laver career statistics or Margaret Court career statistics, or Billie Jean King.BLuEDOgTN 04:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know what you are talking about show me some research because I have never heard that before.BLuEDOgTn 16:34, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
For what it's worth, the ESPN Sports Almanac and Sports Illustrated Almanac do mention the 1968 and 1969 amateur champions (Arthur Ashe and Stan Smith, respectively). Do any other reviewers have an opinion on this? Giants2008 (17–14) 21:11, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I got this fixed in the Other tournaments section, but I put disclaimers to go with it.BLuEDOgTN 23:51, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Should be good enough, especially if the US Open people themselves don't consider the amateur events part of the chronology. Giants2008 (17–14) 22:05, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Actually I think the nominator is right to hold off with the tie-break issue. There seemed to be a precedent for the current format set at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Wimbledon Gentlemen's Singles champions/archive1 (in my capped comments) and I think the current format is much less ambiguous. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 20:33, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I will hold off on the tiebreaks for now with respect to this list article, but I think and go look at WP:Tennis on the talk pages, and see the conversation going on right now!BLuEDOgTn 16:34, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I nominated this because the Wimbledon ones, but I don't think the Wimbledon one is justified in being the lone slam list to get to FL. I did not create these articles, which is why I have problems with the way User:Don Lope set the up. I think he neglected to see all-time only matters in the eras. I just am trying to help right now!BLuEDOgTn 16:34, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I will be following this about every other day, which I will still keep up this but not daily about three times a week.BLuEDOgTN 20:59, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

*Comment In the ALTs some times you mention the image is black and white and other times you don't. Could u either mention this every time or indicate it in some way...--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:44, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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