Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of SpongeBob SquarePants episodes/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by Dabomb87 01:17, 4 November 2009 [1].

List of SpongeBob SquarePants episodes edit

Nominator(s): AMK152^{(Talk • Contributions • Send message)} 16:44, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because this article has gone through an extraordinary transformation over the years to reach the criteria required for such an article. Advice has been taken from three peer reviews and contributors have made efforts to look at existing featured episode list articles, and follow those formats to make this article look like a featured list article. It is time for this article to be a featured list. AMK152^{(Talk • Contributions • Send message)} 16:44, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Co-Nominator:Will help with what i can to please your wishes.--Pedro J. ^{the rookie} 01:06, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments I'm finding myself getting more and more confused with each reading of this page.

American cable network --> American cable network. Why is American linked here?
Why does "animated television series" link to List of animated television series? It makes more sense to link to cartoon series or pipelink animated television series
It says each season consists of 20 episodes, but it appears season 8 will have just 13
None of the second paragraph is cited, and is therefore unverifiable.
What are "sister episodes"? Assuming you mean each individual short, which is what they've been referred to previously, why are they now episodes?
Marathons aren't particularly notable. Many networks do them. At any rate, any reference for Karate Island being most popular?
What is an "official" airdate? Do Nickelodeon not recognize that they aired the pilot in May? No matter what spin they've put on it, its actually just a re-run, and doesn't need mentioning
Please check with the MOS or User:Tony1, I think using "#" to mean "number" isn't allowed any more
Why aren't directors listed?
If "Gary Takes a Bath" aired during season 3, why is it listed as part of season 2?
How have the writers of this list decided what episodes are part of season 2 and what are part of season 3? Often times, it is the broadcast date that decides this, regardless of how the DVDs are packaged, but it seems to me like you're going by how the DVDs have been put together. This I can't fathom, because there are now episodes broadcast during season 3 included in season 2's table, episodes 34 and 36 seem to be out of place, etc.
In season 4's table, there are episodes where you've got certain shorts together, as if they form an episode, with different broadcast dates... how has that happened?
I'm also confused by episode 83. Two of the three shorts aired in February, but the third aired in September.. again, how did this happen?
Things get even more interesting with episode 133. One half of the episode has aired, but the other hasn't? How is this an episode? I think the contributors need to go back and think about what makes up an episode. Is it how they are packaged on DVD? How the production team packaged them for the network, or how the network aired them.
The US Copyright Office reference points to their homepage. Not very helpful here.
Refs 6, 21, 29, and 32 need formatting correctly
Ref 8 is a footnote, not a reference
Viacom.com and Nick.com are websites, and don't need italicising. Also, you can remove the ".com" parts, and stay with "Viacom" and "Nickelodeon"
What makes http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=57074 a reliable source?
What makes http://www.animationmagazine.net/article.php?article_id=6241 a reliable source?
What makes http://www-personal.umich.edu/%7Egoodwins/bob/you_wish.html a Reliable source?
What makes http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?p=3393203 a reliable source?
Poor use of colour means it fails WP:FL?#5(c)

At the moment I oppose. I think a lot more work and thought should be put into it. Matthewedwards : Chat 22:17, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments. It is appreciated. I have taken your advice on some of your comments, but others I have not found a solution:

I looked around and found nothing on the use of "#" for number. I've looked at several episode list articles and found they are using "#."

See WP:POUND. Good raise 02:29, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would include directors, but I'm not sure what directors to put down. Animated directors? Storyboard? Creative? Technical?
Gary Takes a Bath is listed in season two only in this list. It is also on Season 2's DVD.
The episodes do not air in order. Based on the news articles, sources, behind the seens, and just about everything else regarding season, Seasons are not in broadcast order. If so, SpongeBob would be in season 12, which it's not.
Sometimes, Nickelodeon has aired an 11 minute episode without its pair and its pair would air at a different date. After both have aired whether on the same date or different dates, they are paired in future airings. And when I say paired, it could also mean in the rare case that there are three shorts given the same number and an a, b, and c, just like episode 83.
What is wrong with http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=57074 and http://www.animationmagazine.net/article.php?article_id=6241?

-AMK152^{(Talk • Contributions • Send message)} 03:07, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:33, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. -AMK152^{(t • c)} 21:21, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: The lead is too short, the image has an insufficient fair-use rational, ~~and most airdates appear to be unreferenced.~~ Good raise 15:30, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

helped the lead, will find a new image or improve this one and air dates do not nesseserly need refrences check List of The Simpsons episodes.--Pedro J. ^{the rookie} 01:06, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't check other articles. As long as the airdates aren't referenced, I'll oppose this nomination. Good raise 02:29, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

will you be satisfied if i find at least 75 to 80 % of the dates dout i can find them all.--Pedro J. ^{the rookie} 02:57, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, no. I can support an article that's just 80% referenced just much as I can support an article that's just 80% correct or 80% complete. Good raise 03:23, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

dout we will be able to agree so lets leave it like that i will try to improve and you can give your opinion.--Pedro J. ^{the rookie} 03:26, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The references are there, at the bottom of the page in the "References" section. Should we add footnotes? I think the addition of multiple footnotes for each section would clog up the table. That is why there is a reference section with multiple references. -AMK152^{(t • c)} 04:30, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, yes. The MSN TV reference seems fine. Though epguides.com, TV.com, and Internet Movie Database shouldn't be used as references. As for footnotes, while not absolutely necessary, they wouldn't hurt. (You can link in the column header, if a source covers large portions of a column.) Anyway, why was the image removed? All I was asking for was a proper fair-use rational. The lead is more than long enough now. It includes information that seems out of place on an episode list. The prose is also less than brilliant. Then there's the issues brought up by Matthewedwards. I'm afraid I still have to oppose, even though my main concern is out of the way. Good raise 01:58, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Further comments I still do not understand how a season of Spongebob works: The second season of SpongeBob SquarePants premiered on October 26, 2000, with the episodes "Something Smells" and "Bossy Boots". The season ended on July 26, 2003 with "Gary Takes a Bath", yet The third season of SpongeBob SquarePants premiered on October 5, 2001, with the episodes "Just One Bite" and "The Bully". The season ended on October 11, 2004.

How does one season of television episodes span three years and overlap with another season? Has the list been created from the episode names and production numbers given to the US Copyright Office? Has it been created from how the DVDs have been compiled? Episodes get produced for one season but get aired by networks in a different season quite a lot (cf. Star Trek: Voyager and The Simpsons) Episodes get boxed differently from the order of production and broadcast (cf. The Family Guy)

Also, I still don't get what makes two shorts form an episode when they aired at completely different times. So what that they were packaged on a DVD in a certain way? You say that Nick don't broadcast episodes in order, and that they air some shorts packaged with others before airing them a second time with a different short. Where are you getting the official order from? I need to see information other than those two sources that prove what the article says is a season, is actually a season, before I believe this list to be correct

I still have major issues with the prose. Some sentences are written terribly, there are four parastubs, and one huge paragraph that looks out of place, and much of it is unsourced.

An additional 26 episodes have yet to air. is unsourced
SpongeBob's signature voice, provided by Tom Kenny, and humorous style was enjoyable to both younger and older audiences. is WP:OR
SpongeBob SquarePants was the first "low budget" Nickelodeon cartoon, according to the network, to become extremely popular. Don't say "according to the network"; instead, cite where it said that
Almost all of paragraph 4 is unsourced. Why is "low budget" in quotes?
WP:AVOID "although"
Why is "older" in quotes?
Why is the contents table on the other side of the page?
In season five, the series' first television film, Atlantis SquarePantis, premiered on November 12, 2007 after a marathon. What's a marathon? It sounds like the film ran for 26 miles
Five ~~of the~~ seasons are available on DVD.
The first season of SpongeBob SquarePants premiered on May 1, 1999, but officially first aired on July 17, 1999. How is the first premiere date not official? Do Nickelodeon not recognize that they aired the pilot in May? Do they wish to brush it under the table? No matter what spin they've put on it, its actually just a re-run, and doesn't need mentioning
The pilot episode, "Help Wanted" was not included on the season one DVD. -- isn't "Help Wanted" just one short that makes up an episode? Does this mean that the "Help Wanted" short wasn't on the season 1 DVD, or that the entire episode wasn't?
Just like in season four is really poor and not encyclopedic in WP:TONE
You said before that you couldn't find in the MOS where # shouldn't be used to indicate "Number". It's at MOS:POUND, a section of WP:MOS titled "Number signs". Easy to find, I shouldn't have to do this. void using the # symbol (known as the number sign, hash sign or pound sign) when referring to numbers or rankings. Instead use the word "number", or the abbreviation "No.".
Your References are in the yyyy-mm-dd date format, but the notes are in the mmmm dd, yyyy format. They should all be the same
What makes epguides.com, TV.com, and imdb.com WP:RSes?
Ref 3 is to "The Origin of SpongeBob SquarePants [DVD Special Feature]". You need to state which DVD this can be found on, its release date, and other stuff as at {{cite dvd}}
TVShowsonDVD.com is a website name, and shouldn't be italicized in the reference name
Viacom is a company name, and shouldn't be italicized in the reference name
New York Post is a newspaper name, and should be italicized.....
I shall ask again, what makes http://www.animationinsider.net/article.php?articleID=1402&document=3 a WP:Reliable source?
Why does "Pest of the West" need three sources?
What makes http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=57074 a Reliable source?
Your Us Magazine source, is actually People
Your use of WP:COLOR is unnecessary, and violates WP:ACCESS as it fails a number of colourblindness tests: [2], [3]

Still oppose Matthewedwards : Chat 01:40, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Goodraise: I put a footnote on the airdates part of the tables. I also removed information in the head that is out of place in this article.
Matthewedwards:

I removed parts of the head that don't fit in an episode list article.
The contents table is on the right because otherwise it would push the contents down, decreasing the quality of the article
Does "television marathon" sound better?
You are correct. There is no "offical" air date.
I changed "Just like in" to "As in"
Thanks for pointing out WP:POUND. It's fixed.
References fixes and improved.
I don't understand why http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=57074 is unreliable.

To determine the reliability of the site, we need to know what sort of fact checking they do. You can establish this by showing news articles that say the site is reliable/noteworthy/etc. or you can show a page on the site that gives their rules for submissions/etc. or you can show they are backed by a media company/university/institute, or you can show that the website gives its sources and methods, or there are some other ways that would work too. It's their reputation for reliability that needs to be demonstrated. Please see Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2008-06-26/Dispatches for further detailed information. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:55, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Pest of the West has three sources. Is it bad to have too many sources?
I will take a look at the colors and fix it.
The episodes are grouped by season as per the production numbers and the season DVDs. Season one aired from 1999 to 2000. Season 2 began in 2000, but an episode from season two never aired until 2003, after which season 3 began. Seasons of SpongeBob don't tend to air like other shows. BUT, they are still called seasons. If we were to go by years to mark the seasons, it would be original research:

1st Season 1999-2000
2nd Season 2000-2001
3rd Season 2001-2002
4th Season 2002-2003
5th Season 2003-2004
6th Season 2004-2005
7th Season 2005-2006
8th Season 2006-2007
9th Season 2007-2008
10th Season 2008-2009
11th Season 2009-2010
SpongeBob is not in its eleventh season.

-AMK152^{(t • c)} 03:31, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hopefully I fixed the article so that the concept of an "episode" is more understandable. -AMK152^{(t • c)} 03:43, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.