Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Scream characters/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by Dabomb87 00:14, 21 August 2011 [1].

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List of Scream characters

List of Scream characters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured list candidates/List of Scream characters/archive1
• Featured list candidates/List of Scream characters/archive2

Nominator(s): Darkwarriorblake (talk) 11:44, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it to be a comprehensive, detailed article. I spent a long time researching the films for their respective articles and have condensed that here to provide as much intimate detail where possible on the characters and otherwise provided a brief summary of the characters actions plus an additional reception section. Everything here is everything I believe it possible to find through research in regards to the characters and I believe it to be a quality article. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 11:44, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

• Comment - Might I suggest limiting the table of contents to the primary headers? It's a bit much to have a TOC with 40 to 50 items in it. It kind of consumes the page.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 20:30, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

• Reply How do you do that? Darkwarriorblake (talk) 20:31, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

• {{TOC limit|limit=}} In the "limit" field, you put either 1, 2, 3, etc. to indicate which level of header you want to display. "1" would be the primary header, 2 would be all primary and the next sublevel header, 3 would be the first sub level and the sublevel of the sublevel. You don't have any that extreme, so "1" is probably the one that I would suggest.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 20:46, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Done. I had to do Limit=2, 1 didn't seem to do anything. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 20:54, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Cool. I'd look at the article in detail but I haven't seen the more recent film and I'd rather not spoil things for myself. :(  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 21:15, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Oppose Neutral Crystal Clear x3 23:23, 15 August 2011 (UTC) *Fix Variety in ref 37

• Ref 15 needs to be reformatted
• ditto for ref 6
• E! Online should be cited in ref 7
• Where's the work/publisher for ref 21
• Replace ref 30 because IMDb is not an RS
• Ditto for ref 31
• After writing Wes Craven once, he should then be referred to as just Craven
• Is Internet Movie Script database a RS? If not, ref 23 needs to be replaced
• And ref 9 also then
• Ref 17 is a fansite
• Ref 20 is also a fansite
• The formatting of ref 18, 19 and 41 are incorrect
• Is popmyculturepodcast.com a RS? If not ref needs to be replaced 22
• The references are all over the place. Some cite works and publishers, some just works and some cite works as publishers
• No external links?
• The first Variety in reception should be in italics
• The second use of it should be unlinked
• Is it really necessary to have that non-free pics of the cast since more than half of the actors included in it have there own free-use pics

Need to be unlinked

• Halloween
• TV
• high school
• film within a film/MPAA/copycat/gang raped (after their first use)
• cameramen
• basement
• sequel
• garage door
• makeover
• garage
• cat door
• frame

On a side note, kudos on your hard work towards fixing up the Scream articles! Crystal Clear x3 05:34, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Reply Done all but:

• Is Internet Movie Script database a RS? If not, ref 23 needs to be replaced: I believe it to be reliable, the script provided varies little from the actual film and commentary on the DVD confirms some of the altered events found in the particular scripts, I don't know if anyone has any more experience with the site but I do believe it to be accurate.

*Ref 17 is a fansite: Removed info and ref, cannot find a better source

• Ref 20 is also a fansite: Not sure on this one, the actual part linked is backed up by dvd commentary. I can replace it with a ref to the commentary instead.
• Is popmyculturepodcast.com a RS? If not ref needs to be replaced 22: Don't know about the site but the actual sound file is reliable, it is Lillard's voice and photos of him with the people running the podcast at their offices are on that page. Don't know if that makes it good enough.
• Ditto for ref 31: Looking for alternative, cannot find any other page that lists nominees, just winners.

Thanks for the compliment btw, was NOT easy. Took like 2 months to find all the information for a 16 year old film. As an aside, I was not sure what you meant by formatting of certain refs you picked out, they APPEARED ok to me but I had a go with them anyway so hopefully I did what you meant me to. I also tried to improve the rationale for the lead picture but if you still think it is unsuitable I am happy to cut it.

Darkwarriorblake (talk) 12:01, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:49, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Oppose – A lot of prose issues exist in what I read, which amounts to about one-and-a-half films' worth of characters. I'll add more later as I get time, but will wait until the original comments are looked at. First off, I'm also really unsure about the non-free image. If we have free images of the actors, they are preferable to non-free content. "In Scream 4, eleven years have passed, Sidney has written a self help book about her experiences, Dewey has become Sheriff of Woodsboro and is in a strained marriage with, now, Gale Riley". Add "and" after Dewey, so the flow will be better in this sentence. "leaving the true killer or killers identity concealed...". "killers" → "killers'". Get that apostrophe in there. Billy Loomis: Since it seems that italics are to be used for film titles, use them for Scary Movie. Casey Becker: "Barrymore was already a successful actress when she appeared in Scream where casting a big name for a horror film was not common." Second part is only loosely connected to the first. Is "when she appeared in Scream at a time when casting a big name for a horror film was not common" the intended meaning? Spell out MPAA. Better yet, switch that part around to "the Motion Picture Association of America film rating board". This will prevent problems from spelling it out. This now reads "and the film rating board the Motion Picture Association of America film rating board." This needs to be shortened by eliminating "the film rating board" from the start. Also, a stray quotation mark has made its way in here toward the end; that should be removed as well. Everything else from the first batch is good; I'll cap it in one shot when I look at the rest. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:49, 31 July 2011 (UTC) Fixed this, can't believe I missed that.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 21:56, 31 July 2011 (UTC) Barrymore photo caption: "was nominated Saturn Award for Best Supporting Actress...". Missing "for the" or "for a" before the award name. Cotton Weary: "He and his girlfriend are attacked by the latest Ghostface killer who demands to know the whereabouts of Sidney Prescott who has gone into hiding." Could use a couple of commas before the "who"s. Punctuation seems a little light in the article as a whole. Should "internet" be capitalized? Gale Weathers: "In Scream 2 she travels to Windsor College to cover the current murder spree, later witnessed the apparent death of Dewey...". For this to work, "witnessed" needs to be "witnessing". "wishing to play a 'bitch' character specifically because of her Friends character and lobbied...". Needs a comma before "and lobbied". Trying to go without one leaves the grammatical tenses in rough shape. Ghostface: "He and the cast of the films were intentionally prevented from meeting for most if not all of each films production...". Second use of "films" should instead be "film's". Principal Himbry: "was one of several reasons that the films production...". Again turn "films" into "film's". Capitalize the last two words of Santa Rosa high school? A few of these photo captions need Scream to be italicized. I noticed it in Jamie Kennedy's photo, but there are others with the same issue. Sidney Prescott: "she is stalked by a killer later revealed to her boyfriend Billy Loomis and his friend Stu Macher". Missing "be" before "her boyfriend", at least if the rest of what I've read is accurate. Tatum Riley: Remove comma from "town Deputy, Dewey Riley." Scream 2: Another excess comma in "the mother of Scream killer, Billy Loomis" that needs removal. Cici Cooper: Second word of Windsor college needs capitalization for consistency with the rest of the article. Debbie Salt (Mrs. Loomis): "when he conducting a killing spree." Add "is" before "conducting"? Also another "internet" here. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 02:53, 25 July 2011 (UTC) Done all of these except the first. I may be reading it wrong but it seems like you're asking me to add "about her experiences, Dewey and has become Sheriff". Doesn't make sense to me.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 09:19, 25 July 2011 (UTC) That was meant to be a suggestion for "about her experiences, and Dewey has become Sheriff." Sorry about that. Anyway, carrying on... Derek: "but are both shot to dead by Mrs. Loomis to preserve her anonymity." "dead" → "death"? Hallie: "When Sydney returns to the vehicle to discover the killers identity". "killers" → "killer's". Joel: In the first sentence, an apostrophe is needed after Gale Weathers. "His corpse is found during the films finale." "films" → "film's". Sarah Darling: "amongst" → "among". Not a big deal, but if you can make something a shade less worthy it's worthwhile. Jill Roberts: "to appear to be lone survivor of the Ghostface spree." Add "the" before "lone survivor"? Perhaps add another "the" before "chest" in the section's last sentence? Reception: "On her character of Sidney Prescott, Neve Campbell was praising". Quite a bit awkward. I recommend a simpler "Neve Campbell praised her character of Sidney Prescott". In this section, The New York Times and Los Angeles Times need italics—twice in the case of the NYT. In the Jennifer Jolie quote, the pairs of hyphens can be changed to en dashes, which fit better with the Manual of Style. Even if dashes aren't in the source, we are allowed to make reasonable style-related improvements. Those are actually em dashes you put in. En dashes are the smaller of the two dashes (go below the Save page button; the en dash is directly to the right of the drop-down box). Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:21, 1 August 2011 (UTC) What kind of monster creates barely different dashes for different situations? Done. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 01:34, 1 August 2011 (UTC) Reference 10 needs a publisher to be added. In the refs, add italics for the New York Times, Los Angeles Times, and Chicago Sun-Times where they appear. I count four reference from them, all toward the end. Take out the all caps in the title of reference 39 ("SCREAM 3") and show it as "Scream 3". Minor, but there's an inconsistency in the capitalization of Variety.com (ref 36 has it capitalize, ref 33 doesn't). Consistency is good. Some excess brackets and a bare link are in ref 6. Might want to check the formatting on that one. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 15:46, 25 July 2011 (UTC) Done. I added another source alongside Fearnet. I don't know how reliable it is but according to Wikipedia it is owned by Comcast and 2 other companies, I don't know if that makes it more reliable than a fan site though or not. The lsat point, ref 6, I fixed the bare link but I couldn't see what you meant by excess brackets. Ref 6 is still showing up as a bare link. Checked the formatting real quickly for an obvious issue like a faulty link pipe, but I didn't find one. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:21, 1 August 2011 (UTC) Done. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 01:34, 1 August 2011 (UTC) What makes FEARnet.com (ref 26) a reliable source? Note that I'm leaving this one out so that other reviewers can comment on it if they want to. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 18:17, 1 August 2011 (UTC) I've just replaced this ref with one from zap2it. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 18:37, 1 August 2011 (UTC) Let me add a couple more things I spotted while checking the edits: Sidney Prescott: "later revealed to be her boyfriend Billy Loomis and his friend Stu Macher, who are revealed as his mother's murderer". Last word needs to be plural here. In references 34 and 37, Variety should be italicized since that is a printed publication. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 18:17, 1 August 2011 (UTC) Done Darkwarriorblake (talk) 18:25, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Comments - please note, I'm very short-tempered(!) and waiting for my dinner, so if I repeat something that's already been said, just ignore it (but tell me you've ignored it). This is a "from-the-top" review.

• Lead image would be sweet. I think it would be fair enough to put Cox or Campbell up there...
• "from Wes Craven" don't repeat Wes.
• "The series includes four films" -> comprises.
• Minor point, I guess because the films always call her "Sssssiiiddnneeeeeeey" then you refer to her as Sidney, but encyclopaedically she should be referred to as Prescott.
• "self help" is hyphenated.
• Where is Woodsboro? Is that somehow relevant? i.e. mention that the films are set in/around this fictional area.
• "with Gale Weathers-Riley" just "Gale" would work here I suppose.
• "The killer is revealed as Roman Bridger (Scott Foley) who also reveals that ..." reveal x2 boring prose.
• Link the first film in the first sentence of the Scream section to help differentiate it from the series.
• Directly cite the Saturn award nominations.

That's enough to start with, I reckon I'm 10% of the way through the article. This sort of nomination really should have seen peer review before being presented here. All the things I'm pointing out are pretty basic. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:48, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

• Done all but the Prescott renaming. WikiProject film guidelines are to go with the name people know them by. People do not know her as Prescott like audiences don't know Ripley as Ellen. There are also 2 other Prescott's which won't help.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 23:50, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

• • Comment : So any other notes or opinions? Darkwarriorblake (talk) 12:56, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
    • Have you asked other reviewers to revisit? Dabomb87 (talk) 03:23, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
      • I thought I had but maybe I'm mistaking it from my Scream film FAC. I will ask at Project FIlm. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 11:11, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Further comments (from Scream section onwards)

• You link all of "slasher film" in the lead but just "horror" of "horror films" in Loomis' section.
• "When a series of murders occur, ..." make more active so say "Following a series of murders, ..."
• "When a series of murders occur, Billy becomes a suspect after he is found at Sidney's house shortly after she is attacked but is later released when evidence points to other characters" tense jumping -> When (current), after (past), shortly after (near past), later (future). Reads very poorly, may help if you change some of the prose to my suggestion.
• "answer horror film trivia " trivia what? trivia questions presumably?
• Is it just "Ghostface" or "the Ghostface killer"? Be consistent.
• " leaving her hung and gutted" do you mean "hanged and disembowelled"?
• "Film within a film " link it the first time, not the second.
• "Barrymore was already a successful actress when she appeared in Scream at a time when casting a big name for a horror film was uncommon." is this supposed to be referenced by a television (of E!) episode? Looks like POV to me.
• "was severely cut down " can you be clearer here, i.e. heavily edited?
• In the Weary section, Scream 2 is linked, but you've already mentioned it in the Loomis section.
• " by Billy Loomis and Stu Macher, who then framed Cotton" who's who? Both colluded to frame him? Can you be specific?
• "travelling" is that USEng? I thought it only took one "l".
• "Following the script leaking..." again, more active, i.e. "Following the leak of the script..."

Down to Dewey. Lots more to do. Oppose and suggest you take it to peer review as this much prose really needs a careful eye. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:04, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

It had a peer review. I'm not a Barrymore fan so it isn't POV, it's from the E! special. Have done everything. Changed most of The Ghostface Killers, I left in Ghostface killers where it was plural because I'm not sure what the plural of Ghostface would be. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 13:22, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps it needs a second peer review. Deep breath. Next few sections.

Comments

• So when E! says something it's a reliable source? Can you back that up?
• Wouldn't plural of Ghostface be Ghostfaces?
• Didn't seem to change "hung and gutted" to "hanged" and "disembowelled" which is, after all, grammatically correct and encyclopaedic...
• "After a series of murders occur ..." see previous advice, more active, or in this case, just remove occur and add a comma.
• "Dewey has married Gale and returned to.." both of them or just him?
• "of Billy and Stu's spree" should that be "of Billy's and Stu's spree"?
• What makes IMSDb a WP:RS?
• "but Craven filmed an additional scene where he survives" replace "he" with Dewey, you've lost who "he" is when you mention Craven in the midst.
• " in case test audiences" perhaps (be more active and) say "to ascertain if" or "to gauge"?
• "and Arquette's character survived" this (subtly) implies the audience wanted Arquette to survive, but wasn't it the character? So say "and Dewey survived"...
• "When Arquette was brought in to audition for Scream, it was for the role of Billy Loomis. Arquette however liked the character ..." tighten this up "Arquette originally auditioned for the role of Bill Loomis, but preferred..."
• Is "Stab 3" another fictional movie? Not clear but I assume it was a movie-in-a-movie in Scream 3?

The Rambling Man (talk) 13:34, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Ack, I made some of these changes before you added your suggestions. I've tried to match them up with the edits I have made. I'm not sure how I can ascertain that E! is an RS. Nor with IMSDb. The information sourced by IMSDb is backed up by the director commentary which I can use instead if necessary. IMSDb does seem reliable and I have ejected sources I didn't feel were trustworthy but I don't know how I can back it up. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 14:03, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

It is listed on the British Film Institute website for what that is worth. http://www.bfi.org.uk/filmtvinfo/gateway/categories/scriptsscriptwriting/online/ Darkwarriorblake (talk) 14:06, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

This is all very well but I'm commenting on most lines in most paragraphs. I'm not even a quarter of the way through. I oppose the nomination simply because I don't have the time to review every line in it, which, it appears, I would have to do. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:20, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.