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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of National Treasures of Japan (crafts: others)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:38, 19 January 2011 [1].

List of National Treasures of Japan (crafts: others)

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List of National Treasures of Japan (crafts: others) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): bamse (talk) 00:13, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Another list in the series of National Treasures of Japan lists. This is the complement to List of National Treasures of Japan (crafts: swords). See Lists of National Treasures of Japan (all except for "writing") for other featured lists of the series. bamse (talk) 00:13, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments - In Statistics the one table's header is not center aligned? "...stirrups or armour.[79][82][81][83]" "...decorated with a variety of methods.[79][84][85]" "...small boxes or writing cases.[83][79][86]" "...decorating lacquerware.[91][90]" Refs should appear alphabetically. "(秋草文壺 akikusamontsubo?)[15]new line[16]" "hichijō shinō kesa?)[128][129]new line[130]" remove the line, didn't know how to phrase this. "Kamakura period, August, 1301" comma not needed for the date. Most of the notes need to begin with a capital letter and end with a full stop. I take it Note 9 is the poem, it needs to be referenced. Afro (Talk) 06:11, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the comments. I believe I fixed all of these issues. bamse (talk) 18:05, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 19-21 are dead. Ref 95, 109, 133, 134 need a format parameter. Ref 45, 60, 61, 70, 78, 95, 96, 110, 163, 167, 169, 170 need a language parameter. Ref 1 could do without the use of the search tags. Error in Retrieval date for Ref 52. Ref 47 is an image and doesn't verify what's cited. Also question regarding the use of Google books, I notice you use the .pl wouldn't it be better to use .com where applicable? Afro (Talk) 10:49, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Refs 19-21 are impossible to directly link to since they are subpages of some javascript database. How shall I deal with them? Just link the top (database search) page or do something else with them? As for .pl vs. .com, I don't see a problem with it (but would change if necessary). In any case the google book links are only for convenience as the references are sufficiently specified by title, author, isbn, etc. I'll fix the other problems in the course of today. bamse (talk) 11:39, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Added format parameters to all four references, added language parameters to most of the references ("Emuseum" pages are multi-language, English included, so I guess I don't need a language parameter for them), removed search tags from ref 1, fixed date in ref 52 and removed ref 47. Only open issues (for which I wait for your feedback) are the "dead" javascript refs 19-21 and the .com vs. .pl question. bamse (talk) 12:16, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'd mention that the Emuseum refs are in more than 1 language personally. Although it's a minor issue itsthe English Wikipedia not the Polish Wikipedia and if the info links are available in English I don't see why the .com can't be displayed over .pl. I'll have a look over the links and get back to you on the Java issue. Afro (Talk) 14:05, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the quick response. I changed .pl to .com and added "language = Japanese, Chinese, Korean, English, French" to the (archived) Emuseum refs. The links to the non-archived (new) Emuseum refs are in English only. bamse (talk) 16:04, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I changed the links of refs 19-21 to the start page of the respective database/collection. Please let me know if that is sufficient. bamse (talk) 20:58, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
To be able to verify the links you'll need to instruct the user on where they can find the information, also the links need a new retrieval date now. Afro (Talk) 05:53, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
How shall I instruct the user? I'll fix the retrieval date. bamse (talk) 21:28, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Personally I'd instruct the user by telling them which menu they can find the item and what page to go to. Afro (Talk) 21:16, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I specified the way I use to get to the respective item. It is not a unique way to get to the reference and refs 19, 21 could also be obtained with a keyword search; ref 20 could also be obtained with an advanced search (instead of simple search) for instance. Also fixed the access dates of these references. bamse (talk) 23:24, 30 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ref 22, 26, 27, 129 doesn't have a retrieval date. Afro (Talk) 14:59, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
22, 27 and 129 are books and as such don't need a retrieval date as far as I understand. (The google books url is just there for convenience. The reference is to the respective book itself and not to google books.) 26 already has a retrieval date. bamse (talk) 22:44, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You use {{Cite book}} which says "accessdate: Should be used when url field is used." Afro (Talk) 13:39, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, sorry. I remembered (apparently wrongly) reading that it was possible to cite a book and to provide a google books url for convenience (i.e. without accessdate). Added accessdates to refs 22, 27 and 129. bamse (talk) 17:19, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I'll support as I have no issues with the article. Afro (Talk) 21:19, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support --Tenmei (talk) 18:30, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:21, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments

The Rambling Man (talk) 20:19, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking the time for a (as usual) thorough review. I fixed most issues as requested and responded to the others above. Still need feedback from you for the first two issues and the column width problem. bamse (talk) 00:48, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Minor niggle but a single para lead for one of the biggest lists we have seems a little light.
    • I'd like to write more in the lead, however I don't know of any sources that discuss these types of craft items as a whole. Honestly I would not know what more to add to the lead since there are objects of various type (pottery, bells, furniture, textiles) from various centuries and countries (Japan, China, Korea). Discussing all of them together seems a bit cumbersome. That's why I chose another approach with short introductory texts at each subsection (=each type of craft items). The lead is basically just a summary of these sections. bamse (talk) 00:48, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Map caption says "non-sword craft" but that's the only mention of non-sword craft here...
  • I would prefer the column widths be consistent from section to section.
    • The column width are currently chosen automatically by your browser in such a way as to make the tables occupy little space. If I made all columns equal width, the total length of the article would increase considerably, so I'd prefer not to change anything. Another issue with your preference is that some tables have "Artists" (or "Image") columns and some don't. So even if I made columns of equal width the total widths of tables would differ (by the width of the "Artists"/"Image" columns). bamse (talk) 00:48, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Thanks for the review. I fixed the first and second issue and will see what I can do about the remarks. Not sure yet whether I can find something interesting to all seven though. As for the missing image column, I am reluctant to add an empty column as it is wasted space in my opinion. Of course as images become available I will add them to the list and if necessary add an image column. However, finding wikipedia-usable pictures is not easy as these objects are located in museums, are rarely displayed and photography restrictions often apply. Basically the only source of images are old (70+ years or so) books. ReijiYamashina is doing a great job uploading images of national treasure to commons and basically the only regular uploader of NT images at the moment. As you can see, it will take some time before all NT will have their picture. As a side note, the tables in this list also differ in the existence or absence of an "Artist" column because only for some types of craft objects the artist is known. It is very unlikely that the artists for say the two mikoshi NT will ever be known, so adding an empty "Artist" column for consistency does not make sense to me. bamse (talk) 00:23, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for fixing the first two issues. I can understand about the artist column, but it's quite possible images will be located at some point for every item on the list (even if just a scan from a very old book). Having a blank spot already there for the image will help in easing future upkeep, especially for those who may not be familiar with the intricacies of wikitables. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 04:13, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am still not really convinced about the empty image columns, so I asked here for comments. BTW, I already added a couple of more entries in the Remarks column as you suggested. Will try to have remarks for all entries by the end of this day. bamse (talk) 12:50, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, whatever works on the columns. I really disagree on the image columns as (to me) it throws of the balance of the tables as a whole. Despite strongly disagreeing on this, I support promotion of this list. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 06:54, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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