Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Maryland hurricanes (1950–1979)/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by User:Matthewedwards 16:39, 2 October 2008 [1].

List of Maryland hurricanes (1950–1979) edit

previous FLC (16:01, 11 September 2008)

Last one failed because of a lack of comments (hint). Cheers, –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 21:16, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support ~~Comments~~ all issues resolved; from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs). Hint taken ;)

In the lead, I see this: "One storm—Hurricane Hazel—caused sustained hurricane force winds". However, in the next section I see this: "October 15, 1954 – Hurricane Hazel crosses the state, producing hurricane-force winds."
- Not sure exactly what the problem is. :) –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 00:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - ~~Should have been more specific—in the first instance, hurricane-force is not hyphenated, but the second time it is.~~ Dabomb87 (talk) 01:08, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    - I see now, got it. –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 01:11, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"August 12, 1955 – Tropical Storm Connie makes a landfall in southern Maryland, dropping heavy rainfall peaking at 12.32 in (313 mm) in Preston.[7] The heavy rainfall leads to severe flooding which causes $2.5 million (1955 USD) in damage. When the schooner Levin J. Marvel capsizes in high seas, 14 people drown." Repetition of heavy rainfall.
"September 19, 1955 – Hurricane Ione makes landfall in North Carolina, with its outer moisture producing light rainfall across the state." It's that notorious with + -ing construction. Use a semicolon instead: "Hurricane Ione makes landfall in North Carolina; its outer moisture produces light rainfall across the state."
~~"September 28, 1958 – Hurricane Helene is pulled well offshore from the Carolina coast..."—What does "pulled" mean?~~
"September 9, 1969 – Hurricane Gerda intensified offshore, prompting a hurricane watch for eastern Maryland.[17] Because the storm remained offshore, only light precipitation falls." Why is this the only bullet to start with the past tense?
~~I'm getting "bad request" from two web links, current refs 4 and 17.~~

Dabomb87 (talk) 00:21, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

- Thanks for the comments. Done with everything except the first point. –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 00:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose
- the first paragraph should be expanded a little. It's too short currently.
  - I merged the two. –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 21:57, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- In the only note, the …and may be used interchangeably part should be cited because I am not sure it's correct.
  - I disagree. It is rather common sense that a tropical cyclone is a form of cyclone or a storm. –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 21:57, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    - What you're saying is that it will be fine to move Tropical Storm Doria (1971) to Hurricane Doria (1971). It's not about agreeing or disagreeing. It's about what is right and what is wrong. Tropical Storm Doria can never be mentioned as Hurricane Doria.--Crzy cheetah 22:41, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      - That's not what I said. "Hurricane" and "tropical storm" are different intensity classifications, and can thus not be interchanged. "Storm", "cyclone", "tropical cyclone", "hurricane" are not classifications, and in this case, are interchangeable. –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 22:44, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        If a "tropical storm" can never be a "hurricane", then why are you mentioning "tropical storms" in the list of "hurricanes"?--Crzy cheetah 06:18, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        As said before, "hurricane" is an all-encompassing term for Atlantic and Pacific tropical cyclones. The name is based on project consensus. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:45, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        As our Tropical cyclone featured article states, hurricane is a system with sustained winds of at least 33 metres per second (64 kn) or 74 miles per hour (119 km/h). Now, you're saying that this article is against a project consensus, so maybe we should de-feature that article? By the way, you even supported that article.--Crzy cheetah 01:15, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        It's actually quite simple. A "hurricane", in a way, has two meanings. In the informal sense of the word, "hurricane" can refer to any tropical cyclone at any intensity, anywhere in the world, but usually in the Atlantic Ocean basin. In the technical, and meteorological sense of the word, "hurricane" does in fact refer to an Atlantic or Pacific storm with winds of more than 74 mph. As we're trying to keep the article title short and sweet, List of Maryland tropical cyclones (1950–1979 would be too bulky, and unnecessarily technical. –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 17:58, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        Is it encyclopedic to use the informal meaning that may mislead some readers? I think it's just lazy to keep the title "short and sweet". Plus, your sentence --Crzy cheetah 02:09, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        Actually, many readers don't know what a "tropical cyclone" is, but would know what a "hurricane" is. –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 02:13, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        Well, there is a link to "tropical cyclone" in the opening sentence. I always watch on TV meteorologists say this tropical storm may become a hurricane or something similar to that. They never say a hurricane hit Florida when in actuality a tropical storm hit the state. I believe we need to follow the technical meaning of the word because we are an encyclopedia and not a message board.--Crzy cheetah 02:25, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- If No storms made landfall in Maryland at hurricane intensity part is correct, then the title of this page is very misleading and should be changed to "List of Maryland storms" or "List of hurricanes that affected Maryland".
  - "Hurricane" is an all-encompassing term for Atlantic and Pacific tropical cyclones, so again, I'm afraid I must disagree. –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 21:57, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    - Please, explain to me how the following two sentences don't contradict each other, "One storm—Hurricane Hazel—caused sustained hurricane-force winds (winds of 75 mph (121 km/h) or greater) in the state, one of only two storms to do so.[3] No storms made landfall in Maryland at hurricane intensity.". As I understand, two storms hit the state with hurricane-force winds, but no storm hit the state with hurricane intensity. Can you explain the difference between hurricane-force winds and hurricane intensity?--Crzy cheetah 02:09, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Any reason why 1971 is wikilinked?
- Where is the other list? Thee one from 1980 to present? I see the List of Maryland and Washington, D.C. hurricanes (1980–present), but I don't understand why someone combined Maryland and Washington, D.C.in the second list, but not the first. This inconsistency sould be fixed.
- There are some pdf files in the references, so a format=PDF field should be added to the templates.

--Crzy cheetah 20:46, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed everything else. Thanks for the review! –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 21:57, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

SatyrTN comments

"In all, tropical cyclones have killed..." - that probably needs a time qualifier, like "During this time period, tropical ..." That also needs a cite.
Rm notes section if there aren't any notes.

Looks fine. I conditionally support this FLC. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 18:28, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Removed the notes section, and changed the wording in that sentence. That doesn't need a cite, it's simply a count-up of what's already in the article. Thanks for the comments! –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 18:32, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That verges on WP:SYNTH. It's not a show-stopper for me, but I would feel much better if it were sourced in some way. Just an opinion.

I Support this FLC. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 20:18, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

~~Comments~~ Oppose

Make the table in "Deadly storms" sortable
Make the "Number of deaths" column wider so it doesn't span two lines.
Disambiguate "Mid-Atlantic"

Gary King (talk) 03:13, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The lede is poorly written and includes contradictions. "One hurricane, Hazel, brought hurricane-force winds to the state, one of two storms to do so." - is a flat-out contradiction, unless you're (as occurred to me after I fixed it) assuming qualifiers on the "one" and "two" that aren't actually given. This should be separated into two paragraphs, one giving general information and the other giving information just for the period, and making it quite clear which is which. Additionally, the list provides nothing useful in terms of navigation or sorting - it is simply an unhelpful chronological list of storms. In a featured list I'd expect to see an organized presentation like other hurricane lists (see List of retired Atlantic hurricanes) gives, particularly information on deaths, strength, and damages provided in sorted or sortable tables. Finally, the text (where there is any cohesive text) is neither engaging nor brilliant; wikilinks are missing and damages, when given, are not always converted into modern dollars. — jdorje (talk) 05:49, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Have you seen the numerous similar FLs? For example, List of New Jersey hurricanes, List of Delaware hurricanes, List of New York hurricanes, List of South America hurricanes, List of North Carolina hurricanes (pre-1900), List of Florida hurricanes (2000–present)? I'll try to address your concerns about prose and Wikilinking, but I don't understand why you're opposed to this format. –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 00:17, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yep, those all have the same problem - including for many of them confusion in the prose in the lede. I don't agree with citing them as "precedent", however. If those articles have the same problems as this one, they should be fixed. — jdorje (talk) 17:40, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    - Well, do you see any more specific problems with this particular article that I can fix? –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 17:54, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.