Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Benet Academy alumni/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:11, 27 May 2011 [1].

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List of Benet Academy alumni

List of Benet Academy alumni (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured list candidates/List of Benet Academy alumni/archive1

Nominator(s): Edge3 (talk) 16:40, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Hey all. This is my first FLC attempt (and the first list I've worked on), so I'd really appreciate some feedback! FYI a huge chunk of the lead is just a summary of the main Benet Academy article. Thanks, Edge3 (talk) 16:40, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

• Support —Mrwojo (talk) 23:50, 4 April 2011 (UTC); I do have some comments though:
  • It wasn't clear to me that "the school enrolled only men of Bohemian or Slovak ancestry" referred to the Czech college.
    • I'm not an expert on this, but aren't those three ethnicities related in some way?
  • Non-graduates should have an "N/A" or em dash to indicate that the Graduated column is intentionally without a date.
    • Em dashes added
  • A sortable table would be convenient.
  • Porter Moser has a period at the end of his description unlike all others. Because they aren't complete sentences perhaps the few descriptions that use periods should use commas or semicolons instead? (Just a thought.)
    • Period removed from Moser entry; semicolons added between phrases within entries

  Thank you so much for your support! I've addressed most of your concerns listed above; I'll work on the sortable table shortly. Edge3 (talk) 02:45, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

  Sortable table enabled. Edge3 (talk) 03:04, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

• Why is this list titled "people" and not "alumni"? Nergaal (talk) 04:42, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

  Yeah I really don't have an explanation for that. I moved the page. Edge3 (talk) 13:34, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

  I fixed up all the redirects etc. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:20, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 16:21, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Comments' First para is silly short. Merge intelligently (per WP:LEAD, an article of this size doesn't need three paras). Paras combined " An alumni directory compiled in 1937 reveals that older alumni have included members of the clergy, businessmen, physicians, educators, attorneys, musicians, and journalists" while this may be true, this is probably true of any establishment founded for a few years. When was Benet Academy founded? Worth putting that in the lead. Okay, you add that info in the third para, but you can't talk about what happened in 1937 without putting it into context. I went to a college founded in 1284, if I started talking about what happened in 1937 without mentioning that the college had been around for 650-odd years, it would seem strange. I mentioned the year the school was founded in the second sentence US News and World Report is usually called "U.S. News & World Report ". Fixed The lead, as a whole, provides a reasonable overview of the history of the Academy, but this list is about the alumni. You should be focussing on them, not the history of the institution. Ok, I shortened the history paragraph. What does a dash in the "graduation" col mean? Needs clear explanation. I guess "Studied as a freshman" means they dropped out? It's not 100% clear to me (as a Brit...) I added the em dashes per Mrwojo's comments above. The em dash indicates that they studied at the school but never graduated there. I added both the word "only" before "during the ___ school year" and the high schools they graduated from. Ref 1 should be pp. not p. (multiple pages). Fixed. Refs, is it "Daily Herald" or "The Daily Herald" or are they different? Daily Herald, without "the". I removed that one instance. Is "Herald-News" one or both of the above? Neither. See [2] The Rambling Man (talk) 19:20, 7 April 2011 (UTC) Thank you for your comments. I have responded to them above. Edge3 (talk) 23:48, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Comments –

• What makes BoxingScene.com (ref 22) a reliable source?

  I can see why you would be suspicious of that source. I've replaced it with a (hopefully) better source.

• Ref 10 gives the page number as pp., when it should just be p. (single-page cite). Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:24, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

  I switched the parameter.

Thanks for your comments! Edge3 (talk) 14:45, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Moray An Par (talk) 15:15, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Comments Why is the "graduated" data for Justin McCareins and Molly Schaus an en dash (–)? I think this should be explained as a top hat before the table. Similar to List of Wilfrid Laurier University people. Regarding the move to List of Benet Academy alumni from List of Benet Academy people, are its faculty members not notable? Or is there a separate list for that? I think this should consider adding faculty and, if faculty are included, be moved back to List of Benet Academy people. For reflist, I am not sure if there is policy/guideline on this but it will look better and shorter if it's made into two columns similar to what most articles do. Moray An Par (talk) 05:19, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments. I have added a brief explanation of the em dashes and separated the ref section into two columns, as you suggested. As far as I know, no current or former faculty member meets our notability guidelines, so I don't think a "notable faculty" section is warranted. Please feel free to raise any other questions or concerns. Edge3 (talk) 01:09, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Some more resolved comments from Moray An Par (talk) 15:15, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Some more comments: Is "Only alumni who have articles on Wikipedia are listed here." really necessary? It's like saying "only notable people are listed here." I believe it's already a given that everyone listed there should be notable. Ref 7 and 13 has double periods (..) after their publisher. "The all-girls Sacred Heart Academy operated nearby, founded in 1926." has a misplaced prepositional phrase. It should be "The all-girls Sacred Heart Academy, founded in 1926, operated nearby." See this. Moray An Par (talk) 01:47, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

I addressed all of your comments above. Thanks! Edge3 (talk) 14:53, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

• Support Concerns have been addressed. Moray An Par (talk) 15:15, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

  Thank you so much! Edge3 (talk) 23:44, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

• Comments:

Resolved comments from bamse (talk) 08:00, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

*The lead picture could be made bigger. I enlarged it. What is "the class of 2013"? Clarified I see what it means, but shouldn't it be "came"->"come" in that sentence? bamse (talk) 18:40, 25 May 2011 (UTC) Fixed A question on notability (I am from Europe so please bear with me). At least in my country there is no emphasis on high school alumni (maybe on university alumni, but not much on those either). I guess that's different in the US, no? For the sake of not over-generalizing, I will limit the scope of most of my comments to Benet. I don't know that much about alumni relations in other schools, but for private schools like Benet, cultivating alumni relations is very important. By providing an atmosphere in which former students can remain connected to the school and to each other, Benet has established a quite expansive network of connections that can be useful for career-planning or for fundrasing. Alumni, especially the more successful ones, often prove to be the most fruitful targets of fundraising at Benet. And in compiling a list of Benet alumni who have later on become successful in life, the school is giving everyone a sense of pride in the fact that they are a part of a community that has produced so much talent. Outside of school development purposes, local newspapers like to keep track of Benet alumni as well (or any former resident, for that matter). Dan LeFevour, for example, got a lot of local media attention because he was a former resident of the area who went on to become a professional football player. Local newspapers love stories about former residents who become famous later on in life, and when they write those stories, the newspapers provide a bio that often includes the names of the schools they attended. As such, Dan LeFevour's affiliation with Benet was widely publicized in the region, in the same way that other alumni's affiliations with Benet were publicized when they became famous. The fact that Benet students have done well academically, and the fact that it already has so many famous alumni, certainly boosts its public image. Does that answer your question? I hesitate to expand my commentary to other high schools in the US, because I simply don't feel that I could make broad statements about US high schools in general. Thanks a lot. It more than answers my questions. "clergy, businessmen, physicians, educators, attorneys, musicians, and journalists" seem like very normal professions to me. Why mention it? US society focused much more on agriculture in 1937 than we do today, much like the rest of the developed world. The fact that alumni have gone on to non-agricultural industries, in my opinion, underscores the kind of vocational preparation that the school offered. Makes a lot of sense. What is a remedial course? Explained In the table, center alignment of the "Graduated" column would look better in my opinion. I don't know how to do that, but I'll look into it. Short break, will continue review later. bamse (talk) 09:06, 24 May 2011 (UTC) continued... What are the inclusion criteria? Having a wikipedia article on the respective person? Yes that is the inclusion criteria. In fact, I previously had the sentence "Only alumni who have articles on Wikipedia are listed here" in the article, but I removed it per the advice of Moray An Par above. Basically, his/her concern was that the sentence conveyed an idea that was too obvious or redundant, especially if it is convention on Wikipedia that a person can be listed on a Wikipedia list if and only if he or she has a Wikipedia article. What are your thoughts? I am fine with the current situation. Personally I don't mind red-linked entries in tables either if there is a chance that an article will be created. Wikilink "2010 election" in Jim Ryan's entry. Linked Wikilink publishers (if possible) in references. I linked all of the ones I could find. Not sure whether they are identical, but at least they share the same name (please check): The San Diego Union-Tribune, Naperville Sun, Chicago (Magazine), Herald News. There are some Daily Heralds (refs 21, 24) which could possibly be wikilinked. bamse (talk) 18:40, 25 May 2011 (UTC) I added extra links for the Daily Herald, San Diego Union-Tribune, Naperville Sun, and Chicago Magazine. The article for Herald News is for a different publication in New Jersey. That's all the images we have of Benet alumni? One more added; do you want more? Adding more pictures would cause the photos to spill over into the References section on my browser. bamse (talk) 10:25, 24 May 2011 (UTC) On my browser, there is still space for two more images or so, but (from experience) I understand that it is virtually impossible to arrange images and tables in such a way that it looks good on all browsers and screen resolutions. I was just wondering that if we have images of most alumni, we could have an extra "image" column in the table instead of placing images outside the table. bamse (talk) 18:40, 25 May 2011 (UTC) Photos are also available for Lee, McCareins, Salpeter, and Schaus. IMO that's not enough to warrant an extra "Image" column. Alright. I responded to some of your comments above. Please excuse my inability to fully respond. I'm busy at the moment and will respond to the rest of your comments later today. Edge3 (talk) 16:29, 25 May 2011 (UTC) Thank you for your patience. Edge3 (talk) 23:44, 25 May 2011 (UTC) Thanks for addressing my comments patiently. Only open question is the center alignment of the year column. I am not good at table syntax, but if you asked at wikipedia help pages or Help talk:Table you'd probably be helped quickly. bamse (talk) 00:16, 26 May 2011 (UTC) I figured it out through the IRC help channel. Edge3 (talk) 01:20, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Support now. bamse (talk) 08:00, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Edge3 (talk) 13:47, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.