Wikipedia

Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Awake cast members/archive1

< Wikipedia:Featured list candidates
The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by NapHit 00:34, 3 November 2012 [1].

List of Awake cast members edit

List of Awake cast members (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Toolbox
Nominator(s): TBrandley 23:12, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it satisfies all of the featured list criteria. Cheers, TBrandley 23:12, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Question: I'm not reviewing it on the featured list criteria since I have no experience with that; however, I'm curious as to whether all of these guests appeared in both realities. If not, can notes be used to indicate which reality they appeared in? Ryan Vesey 23:19, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • The problem is that there is no source to indicate this information is true. Thanks for commenting. TBrandley 23:47, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have to agree with TRLIJC19, I can't believe these are all really guest stars. On a separate note, almost half of the actors listed don't even have pages themselves, how notable is this list really? I don't think this warrants its own page. --Logical Fuzz (talk) 00:17, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: About the "they can't be guest stars, if they're not even notable enough to have their own article" argument; actually, several television series do often declare any guest appearance as "guest star", even sometimes with very obscure actors. Several X-Files episodes credit actors like this, for example. Several actors billed as "guest actors" that don't even have articles can also be found in several Awake pages, such as the FAs Nightswimming (Awake) and Say Hello to My Little Friend. For what it's worth. Bruce Campbell (talk) 00:33, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Just want to point out that you have misquoted me there. I did not say that actors without their own pages can't be guest stars on a show.--Logical Fuzz (talk)
      • Bruce Campbell, if this was a list of Awake guest characters, then the notability of the individual cast members would not be as important. However, this is a cast list, so ideally all the actors listed should have a certain degree of importance. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 18:43, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 21:20, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • I find it hard to believe that they were all credited as guest stars in the opening billing. Actors/characters listed in the credits are not guest stars, they are minor additive characters. Also, for a one-season cancelled show, I do not think the "guest stars" merit their own articles. I think it should just be an Awake cast star list, with guest/recurring stars included.
    • No, they are "guest stars". They are just known as "recurring guest stars". Also, a separate list isn't needed, as all cast members are on the main Awake article, and it wouldn't seem right, either. TBrandley 00:03, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • My question is, are they credited at the beginning of each episode as guest stars? If not, they are not guest stars. And, what wouldn't seem right? A one-season cancelled show does not need a list for just guest stars. Just make "List of Awake cast members" with a table for stars, and a table for guest stars. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 00:06, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • Thank you, I appreciate a second opinion. Technically, yes, I wouldn't believe so, either, but yes, "recurring guest star". I'll merge into a new "List of Awake cast members", and create one. TBrandley 00:23, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • Okay, done. I've added more prose also, due to this. TBrandley 18:44, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "A month later, Minnette was cast as Rex, while Wilmer Valderama, Steve Harris, Wong, and Allen also garnered roles, being cast as Efrem Vega, Michael's detective partner in the "red reality", Isaiah "Bird" Freeman, Michael's detective partner in the "green reality", Lee, Evans, and Hannah." -- This sentence is a bit confusing. Adding 'respectively' to the end should help clear things up.
  • "Producers of the show initially approached Michaela McManus to play Hannah.[5] However, later, Allen was cast instead, while McManus obtained the role of Tara, which Allen had originally auditioned to play." -- These sentences should be merged cautiously.
  • "The main cast of Awake were praised by critics, particularly Isaacs performance." -- "Isaacs" needs an apostrophe at the end; it's possessive.
  • "Criticism came from critics, however." -- Unclear – is this referring to the guest cast, or the show's second half?
    • Done, I think. I don't know what you meant by "show's second half", though. TBrandley 19:30, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • As noted above, I highly doubt all of these actors were actually credited as guest stars in the opening billing; actors listed in the closing credits are not guest stars, and should not be on this list. It's a cast list, so ideally the majority of the cast should be fairly notable.
    • As noted above, yes, they are. The ones at the end aren't on the list. TBrandley 19:30, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is an inconsistency with wikilinking in the citations.
  • This article is categorized under Category:Lists of celebrities, but not all of these actors are "celebrities". Category:Lists of actors by drama television series is the proper one for this kind of list.
  • Oppose – for now
    • The doctors listed on the guest cast list should have a period after the "Dr" abbreviation.
      • Done. TBrandley 19:30, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • Not done – you didn't fix them all, and in addition, "Mrs" needs a period after the abbreviation. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 17:02, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • The normality for tables is a coordinated key, not a written explanation of the table's meaning.
      • No, there's no policy or guideline against that. See National Tourist Routes in Norway, a FLC right now, as well as others. TBrandley 19:30, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • There is absolutely no need to have the legend/key in prose. When a reader is matching up what something means, a color coordinated key is the easiest/fastest method of navigation. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 21:20, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • That said, the "S" is not a good choice; "S" stands for 'starring', and none of the actors listed received star billing. Perhaps use "G" to indicate guest appearances, and "R" for recurring – something along those lines.
    • Per the featured list criteria, there are far too many red links on the list. Once you cut out the minor additive characters, and leave the true guest stars, the red link count should fly down.
      • They are the "true guest stars!" TBrandley 19:30, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • First of all, no need to "scream" at me. Regardless, there are too many redlinks per the FLCR, so unlink the actors without articles. Should an article be created on one, it can be linked later. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 21:20, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Another issue I have with the list is the order. It's a cast list not a character list, so the cast should be listed first in the guest star table. As for the main star table, it would be better if you wrote the actor's name, with the character's name in parentheses.

TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 19:08, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose at this point. I have yet to review the list in full, but I still have the same reservations as does TRLIJC19 regarding the guest stars. The source that you use for this (RadioTimes [2], where you state "Information is listed on individual episodes included on the list") just lists each episode's cast, it does not distinguish anyone as guest stars. What is your source for guest star billing? I feel you need one. Note that your source for the main cast (TV Guide [3]) has a significantly shorter guest cast listed on the same page. --Logical Fuzz (talk) 21:57, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • I just watched an episode, and those guest stars all appeared at the begging with a caption in the bottom corner saying "Guest starring", and only one of them was at that TV Guide source. Some very key characters and actors to the series aren't there either, I'm assuming that list is incomplete, or something. Also, as the main cast members are listed at TV Guide, we know those are main cast, and at Radio Times it shows them, then others, which makes it obvious that the others are guest stars, or "recurring guest stars". I suppose I could reference the episode using {{cite episode}}. TBrandley 16:34, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry to disagree, but it is not obvious from the RadioTalk source that those are guest stars. And if the TV Guide source "is incomplete, or something", then how can you claim it obvious that the RadioTalk source is correct and all those listed are guest stars, despite not being labelled as such? That source is not usable for guest stars. --Logical Fuzz (talk) 16:52, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

More:

  • Since this is now a cast list, and not a guest star list, the image seems out of place as a guest star. This should be a starring role.
  • "A month later, Minnette was cast as Rex, while Wilmer Valderama, Steve Harris, Wong, and Allen also garnered roles, being cast as Efrem Vega, Michael's detective partner in the "red reality", Isaiah "Bird" Freeman, Michael's detective partner in the "green reality", Lee, Evans, and Hannah, receptively."
    • It is respectively, not 'receptively'.
    • I think this sentence needs to be split up. IMO, there are too many roles lined up here that the reader must sort out. From what I count, you have 5 actors and 6 roles listed. Make it 2 or more sentences. I'd pull out Efrem Vega and Isaiah Freeman, because of the additional descriptions used.
  • "Producers of the show initially approached Michaela McManus to play Hannah, but later, Allen was cast instead, while McManus obtained the role of Tara, Rex's tennis coach, which Allen had originally auditioned to play." Another sentence I think can benefit from splitting for clarity.
    • It was, but the above reviewer TRLIJC19 suggested that it be merged into one. TBrandley 23:42, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In addition to the show's main cast, guest stars were also a staple of Awake." I don't like this sentence. Of course the main cast is a staple, I see no reason to mention that. How about just Guest stars were a staple of Awake. I'm still not crazy about the use of "staple", though.
  • " The first episode that featured guest stars in Awake was "The Little Guy", the show's second episode, garnering ten guest appearances."
    • Get rid of 'in Awake', it seems repetitive because it is also in the previous sentence.
    • which garnered instead of 'garnering'.
  • "Several guest stars have featured as recurring characters on the series, including Laura Innes, Kevin Weisman, and Mark Harelik." change to 'have been featured'.
  • "Logan Miller and Daniela Bobadilla both made over five appearances to the show before its end."
    • on the show, not 'to the show'.
    • Get rid of the "before its end". That's obvious and unnecessary.
    • According to your table, Logan Miller appeared in 2 episodes, not 5.
  • "while "—" means that the actor did not appear in the episode whatsoever." Get rid of the "whatsoever". 'Did not appear' is sufficient.
  • I agree with TRLIJC19, the actors should be listed first, this is a cast list, not a character list. I also think the 'S' designation should be changed.
  • Related to the point above, the main cast table should be redone as well. Again, the focus is cast, not character.
  • External links: change the title of the IMDb link to List of Awake cast members.

--Logical Fuzz (talk) 23:27, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per 3b, as this should not be a stand-alone article. First, I would say Wikipedia is not IMDb; it is not our job to list the credits of everyone who appeared on a show. I do not see why redlinked non-notable actors need to be listed (or why they're called guest stars). Further, I fail to see why all the guests need to be in a table, as the vast majority of it is dashes. Perhaps List of Awake episodes could say "In episode X, people who played a one-time character include John Smith, Jane Doe, William Johnson, and Harry Williams. This can and should be done in prose: two-thirds of the article is formatting to show the actors aren't in most episodes! Reywas92Talk 18:24, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_list_candidates/List_of_Awake_cast_members/archive1&oldid=1138481258"