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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Citra Award for Best Leading Actor/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 10:01, 15 June 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Citra Award for Best Leading Actor edit

Citra Award for Best Leading Actor (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s):  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:38, 1 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I know it's ready. This is the third instalment in my mission to take on the Citra Awards (patently ignoring the yet to be created List of actors of the Dutch East Indies and related projects...) and it's turned out fairly nice. I hope you enjoy looking it over as much as I enjoyed writing it. Key redlinks, particularly Sukarno M. Noor, Zainal Abidin and Tio Pakusadewo, are projects for the upcoming weeks. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:38, 1 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Red Phoenix build the future...remember the past... 21:35, 7 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Red Phoenix build the future...remember the past...
  • Lead section: the first paragraph's first two sentences both start with "The Citra Award...", and so does the second paragraph. These three sentence structures need to be varied a little bit to improve fluency and make the lead easier to read.
  • Article name is "Citra Award for Best Leading Actor" but the infobox uses "Citra Award for Leading Actor". Why not use the correct title in the info box?
  • Does the award have an official logo at all? I would say there would be a perfectly justifiable fair use rationale to use it, if there is one, to illustrate the subject. Or, alternatively, if you can find a free image of someone receiving the award, that would help this list quite a bit, too. I wouldn't call it a dealbreaker, but as it stands, the list simply feels very bare in terms of images.
  • There's a trophy, but reusing it for each Citra Award list (four so far) would stretch fair use to the breaking point. I can't think of any featured lists on film awards that actually include an image of the trophy. The fact that we have fewer free images of Indonesian celebrities is another, sadly commonplace, complaint. Since the Indonesian Wikipedia has much looser fair-use rules, a lot of the editors never try to get free images. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:43, 6 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Kusno Sudjarwadi is listed with a winner's symbol next to his name, but no color is present, in contrast to the other winners on this list.
  • Fixed, I had forgotten to remove the formatting. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:15, 6 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd recommend formatting the "Key" title as a table title for aesthetics and to follow MOS:DTT#Correct table captions.
  • Several little instances of punctuation issues in the lead:
    • "Since 1987 the shortlist..." - needs to be "Since 1987, the shortlist..." per MOS:COMMA.
      • Actually, MOS:COMMA only says we need it for MM-DD-YY constructs. Prepositional phrases is... a bit more complicated, and I recall that BrE/AmE has a role. Reworded to avoid the issue. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:43, 6 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • "The Citra Awards, then known as the Indonesian Film Festival Awards, were first given at the IFF in early 1955; that year there were two winners, A.N. Alcaff of Lewat Djam Malam and A. Hadi of Tarmina" reads very awkwardly. Instead of giving you the breakdowns of punctuation issues, I'll give just a quick suggested reword: "Initially known as the Indonesian Film Festival Awards, the Citra Award was first given at the IFF in 1955. The award was given to two actors that year: A.N. Alcaff of Lewat Djam Malam and A. Hadi of Tarmina.
    • "From 1973 the IFF..." - again, "From 1973, the IFF..."

That should get you started. It's pretty good, but I see some room for touchup. Red Phoenix build the future...remember the past... 16:59, 6 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - Looks good. Taking into account your comments on the images; I agree on pushing the fair use bit if it's already on four articles. Red Phoenix build the future...remember the past... 21:35, 7 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks for the review. Not that it is in four articles, but it would be in four articles if we were to use FU images. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:49, 7 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 16:50, 10 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • " the Citra Award was first given at the IFF in 1955. The award was given" -> "the... award was ... given. The award was given." repetitive.
  • "This duplication". Not keen. Perhaps "The sharing of the award"?
    • Sharing implies that there was only one Citra awarded. They are counted as two. How's this change? (You didn't mention this at the last nomination, BTW) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:49, 7 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "had bought Tarmina's prize" a little colloquial "to buy" something in this context is euphemism for bribery and corruption, right?
  • "The most recent winner is Donny Damara, who won a Citra Award at the 2012 IFF for his acting in Lovely Man" -> "The most recent winner of the Citra Award for Best Leading Actor is Donny Damara who was recognised at the 2012 IFF for his performance in Lovely Man"?
    • To avoid the repetition of "win/won"? Changed to "The most recent winner of this Citra Award is Donny Damara, who was recognised at the 2012 IFF for his performance in Lovely Man"
  • "A total of 61 actors have been nominated for a Citra Award" no, for a "Citra Award for Best Leading Actor", not just a "Citra Award".
  • "The most recognised actor at the IFF has been Deddy Mizwar" -> "at the IFF is Deddy Mizwar".
    • Not sure of this, as the information may change. Used your wording, but added "as of". — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:49, 7 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "each won on one of their " not sure about "each won on..." perhaps "each won for one of.."?
  • Our article on Denias, Senandung di Atas Awan doesn't have the comma.
    • The source uses it, as does the Indonesian article. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:49, 7 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is Albert Fakdawer suitable for an article? Seems to be the only one? (In the template as well...)
    • I'm assuming you're missing a "not" above. I had left him unlinked as he has only been in that one film, but apparently he's made a career for himself as a singer (not one with much coverage, but he seems to have been runner up in the first series of Akademi Fantasi Indosiar). Linked. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:49, 7 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 18:00, 7 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for the review
Resolved comments from Albacore (talk) 19:57, 9 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments:
  • film critics considered Lewat Djam Malam by far the better film and suggested that Djamaluddin Malik's funding of the festival had influenced Tarmina's win. Can you provide the English quote that says this? I'm wondering if this is what the books says, or only what the author says, or if the book has specific reviews it can provides to back up the claim.
  • The Indonesian article has something listed for 2013- can you look into this?
  • I'm unfamiliar with Indonesian naming customs, but when I sort the table under "recipients", it sorts by first name instead of last. Does the family name come first in Indonesian like in Korean, or is this a sorting mistake?
  • The vast majority of Indonesian ethnic groups do not have a family name at all. The Batak are the only ones I know of who, as a rule, do have one. As such, I've tried to avoid using the last name as a sort key (as a side note, most Indonesians would use the first / most common name for a person in conjunction with the words "Mr.", "Mrs.", etc. So it would be Mr. Michael, not Mr. Jackson) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:22, 8 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I could see value in an "English translation" column for the film titles, and I can also see value in a "Role" column for the actor's role in the film, though the latter may be hard to find.
    • A lot of these do not have formal international titles, and since this is a domestic award I don't think it's necessary. Also, I think we should keep the arrangement of the featured Citra Awards lists standard (compare Citra Award for Best Leading Actress). The role is an idea, but aside from difficulty sourcing (an issue on which you are absolutely correct) once again there are issues with keeping the format standard between articles. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:22, 8 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's a mix of "Jakarta: Konfiden Foundation" and just "Konfiden Foundation" in the references- pick one and be consistant. Albacore (talk) 19:01, 8 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Bloom6132 (talk) 16:17, 12 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment –
  • "draw the public's interest in the cinema industry" – not too sure about this, but shouldn't it be "draw the public's interest to the cinema industry".
  • Everything else looks great!

—Bloom6132 (talk) 12:47, 12 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support – meets all 6 FLC – great work. It would also be advisable to apply the above change retroactively to all the other Citra FLs. Cheers! —Bloom6132 (talk) 16:17, 12 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Closing note: This candidate has been successful, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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