Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Ben&Ben discography/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 16 February 2022 (UTC) [1].

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Ben&Ben discography

Ben&Ben discography (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured list candidates/Ben&Ben discography/archive1

Nominator(s): GeraldWL 18:55, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

"God sent those eyes, to get me through the night... and all of the shadows of the past fade into white... when all the memories in my head subside... you remain here... you remain here inside..."

That is an excerpt from "Godsent" by Ben&Ben. Around 6 months ago I got my first boyfriend, and we decided to pick two theme songs. The first is Frank Sinatra's legendary cover of "Fly Me to the Moon", given that we're avgeeks, but then he talked about his favorite Filipino band named Ben&Ben and picked "Godsent" as the second. Since then I've listened to all of Ben&Ben songs, (almost) all of which resonate deeply within me. Even if you don't understand the Tagalog, there is a specific universal appeal to their works.

Out of interest towards the subject, I then started improving the article on 21 December. This is my first time working on discographies, so I read various FL articles on discographies for reference, such as mewithoutYou discography and Regine Velasquez discography. It's a very brief expansion period (6 days), but I've done extensive editing to this and I think that it's suitable for FL. Any comments welcome of course, keep in mind this is written in Philippine English. GeraldWL 18:55, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Support from ChrisTheDude

Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:15, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

====Drive-by comment==== You do not use the word "eponymous" correctly in notes such as "Cover version of the eponymous song by Bread". An eponymous song by Bread would be called "Bread", because in the context of music an eponymous release is one where the title is simply the name of the artist (eg this album). TBH, just saying "Cover version of the song by Bread" would be sufficient, I don't think any additional qualifiers are needed -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:07, 26 December 2021 (UTC) Thanks for pointing out! Done. GeraldWL 03:35, 27 December 2021 (UTC) Further comments "Appearances" in the infobox should probably be "Soundtrack appearances", as "appearances" is rather vague Sounds reasonable-- done. What's the norm in Phillipines English for whether a band name is treated as singular or plural? In UK English it's plural (eg "Coldplay are") and in US English it's singular (eg "Coldplay is"), but in the lead you mix it up, saying "Ben&Ben have released" (plural) "The band was formed [....] It debuted" (singular) ph-ENG considers collective nouns, including bands, as singular. I've changed the have-s to has. "which they also made a music video on" => "for which they also made a music video" Done. "The Guicos play the role of acoustic guitarists" - "play the role" is an odd choice of words here, as it sounds like they are acting. I would just say "The Guicos both play acoustic guitar" Must be from my deeper familiarity writing film articles smh-- done. "an act it continues to do in the following years and is most known for" => "for which the band has remained well known" Done. "The band was also featured in other artists' songs" => "The band was also featured on other artists' songs" Done. "Later in July" => "In July" Done. "seven songs in Pebble House, Vol. 1: Kuwaderno" => "seven songs from Pebble House, Vol. 1: Kuwaderno" Done. "reached Spotify's Top 100 chart; while the rest" - semi-colon should be a comma Changed. "In addition, the band began receiving various accolades starting from 2018 during their rise to fame" => "The band has received various accolades since 2018" Done. "Appearances as soundtracks" => "Appearances on soundtracks" Done. That's what I got on a full first pass..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:35, 27 December 2021 (UTC) ChrisTheDude, thanks for all those comments! Resolved them all. GeraldWL 05:36, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

• Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:15, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Accessibility review (MOS:DTAB)

• Tables need column scopes for all column header cells, which in combination with row scopes lets screen reader software accurately determine and read out the headers for each cell of a data table. You have them for most columns, but I see they're missing for the Sales and Certification columns in the first table; I did not check every table.
• Tables need row scopes on the "primary" column for each row, which in combination with column scopes lets screen reader software accurately determine and read out the headers for each cell of a data table. Row scopes can be added by adding !scope=row to each primary cell, e.g. | rowspan="6" | 2018 becomes !scope=row rowspan="6" | 2018. The last table does not have rowscopes.

PresN-- done all. GeraldWL 03:44, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

• Please see MOS:DTAB for example table code if this isn't clear. --PresN 02:07, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Image review

Pass—no licensing issues found (t · c) buidhe 06:07, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Salamat! GeraldWL 07:12, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Support from Pseud 14

Resolved comments from Pseud 14 (talk) 16:10, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Happy to see you take this on and I'm glad you're enjoying their music even more. Personally, my favorites are "Leaves" and "Pagtingin". Thanks for picking up this review! Definitely grateful to learn about their stuff. Excellent favorites; personally I prefer "Pagtingin". GeraldWL 07:11, 21 January 2022 (UTC) on the record labels Sony Music Philippines and Sindikato -- under the record labels.. Done Unlink record labels and music videos Rm-ed record labels. I think the music videos link is fine and not overlink. The band rose to fame in 2018 for incorporating songs – The band achieved recognition in 2018 for... I don't see any purpose in changing that sentence.. It's not the usage of the phrase (personally I use and have read usage of rose to fame or to prominence as well) but rather how it fits in the career timeline of the band as they've been famous or prominent, albeit not mainstream, since they reformed as Ben&Ben between the years 2016 and 2018, but never really got traction until their songs have been featured in film and TV. I guess It would be sound to highlight that they gotten recognized (more) when the latter happened, if that makes sense. Also in the same sentence above, The band .. , for which the band – repetitive Thanks for spotting that! Resolved. The band was also featured on other artists' songs, and also sang one with various artists as part of the COVID-19 relief effort. – think this needs clarification, so as not to sound confusing. “Other artist’s songs” and “sang one with various artists” sound repetitive. Perhaps reword (e.g. The band has collaborated with various artists, and also recorded a charity single as part of the COVID-19 relief effort.) Done In July, it ranked 1 – it ranked 1st Done with Ben&Ben upon popular demand – due to popular demand Mind explaining why this is needed? Just a bit odd or uncommon use. Either "by", "because of" or "due to" popular demand works well with the sentence. In 2021, it was reported that Ben&Ben set a new – In 2021, Ben&Ben set a new record in the folk pop community – folk-pop genre from both locally such as the Awit Awards, as well internationally such as the NME Awards -- this one is a bit awkward, I don’t think the year matters anymore when they started winning awards, perhaps you can word this as: ‘’The band has received various accolades locally and internationally, including the Awit Awards and NME Awards Done all three That's all I have. Pseud 14 (talk) 17:14, 20 January 2022 (UTC) Pseud 14, addressed all matters; asked questions in some. GeraldWL 07:11, 21 January 2022 (UTC) @Gerald Waldo Luis: I am satisfied with the replies except where I have a response to your questions. Nothing that warrants any issue to hinder this from promotion. I just wanted to clarify points I raised if it seems ambiguous, hopefully it doesn't come across as nitpicky. Pseud 14 (talk) 14:51, 21 January 2022 (UTC) Pseud 14, I've implemented the remaining changes now that you've clarified. GeraldWL 06:55, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• Support Pseud 14 (talk) 16:10, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Support from Truflip99

I am a fan of Ben&Ben's music actually so would love to comment on this. I'll start with the lead overview.

Damn, I was surprised for a moment because I didn't know you can speak Tagalog. Personally I'm learning... and procrastinating lmao--

• adding Poch Barretto as the electric guitarist -- you can probably omit all "the"s in this list?

Yeah I can see why, it sounds vaguely repetitive. Removed.

• The Guicos are acoustic guitarists. -- Can't this be combined with the paragraph's first sentence?

What do you think of it now?

Still needs parallel structure. Here's what I suggest:

In 2017, Ben&Ben expanded, with the Guicos as acoustic guitarists, and added Poch Barretto as electric guitarist, Jam Villanueva as drummer, Agnes Reoma as bassist, Patricia Lasaten as keyboardist, Toni Muñoz and Andrew de Pano as percussionists, and Keifer Cabugao as violinist.

Sounds clearer actually; done! :)

• for which it has remained well known. -- seems a bit superfluous; instead can't you provide a couple of example films with sources?

I've added them, although I disagree on adding sources since that's covered in the last table.

the quote remains vague (can be interpreted as they remain well-known for achieving recognition in 2018, as opposed to what you're intending)

Rereading, I think the first half of the sentence covers the fame thing well, so I removed that latter bit.

• most notably Young K of Day6 -- omit most

Done.

sorry, now add notably by Young K :D

Done :)

• Later in August, Ben&Ben made cover versions -- covered..

No actually, "cover versions" is the official name; covered is only used in sentences like, say, "Deep Purple covered Bob Marley's "Watching the River Flow"."

okie

• upon fan requests -- "upon request" kind of sounds like this was a live request show... is this accurate? If not, probably choose a different word.

Changed to "due to"

maybe "in response" is better?

Done

• Top 100 chart; while the rest, -- omit "while" if using semi-colon.

Nice catch! Done.

More later. --truflip99 (talk) 05:51, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Truflip99, thanks for the comments, some of which I didn't even notice. Looking forward for your other comments in case this is the first batch. GeraldWL 06:24, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

• In 2019, the band released its debut studio album, Limasawa Street. Its second, Pebble House, Vol. 1: Kuwaderno, was released in 2021. // The band has collaborated with various artists, and also recorded a charity single as part of the COVID-19 relief effort. -- try to achieve parallel structure in these too?

I've done parallel for the first two sentences, but can't do one for the last.

How about: The band has collaborated with various artists and has recorded a charity single as part of the COVID-19 relief effort. --truflip99 (talk) 18:35, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Done

• Tables look good.

I think that's it from me. Apologies for the delay! --truflip99 (talk) 17:19, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Truflip99, responded to your comms above. And hey, it's still not 2012 :) GeraldWL 17:39, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Looks like all of my points have been addressed. Good stuff! --truflip99 (talk) 17:51, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the sp! :) GeraldWL 19:16, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Comments by Epicgenius

I can take a look later. – Epicgenius (talk) 13:10, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Sure, will wait for it :) GeraldWL 14:47, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Epicgenius, just wanna remind you of this FLC. Or if you can't do a prose-table review, this FLC is in need of a source review. GeraldWL 13:32, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

I'll review the prose and the tables. But before I do that, I had a question about consistency - why are some of the refs in the "Music videos" section linking to YouTube videos, while others link to news articles? It should preferably either be all news articles or all YouTube videos. I notice that the Rappler sources are trying to embed videos, so I'd instead link to the actual videos. Epicgenius (talk) 17:03, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing that! I changed all refs in Music videos to YouTube; I'll archive them tomorrow. GeraldWL 18:58, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Epicgenius, so it turns out I didnt archive them "tomorrow", but rather just now. All links archived, except for the newest single link-- for some reason both Wayback and Ghostarchive won't do the job... GeraldWL 15:46, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Prose comments:

• "The Filipino indie folk/folk pop/pop rock band Ben&Ben has released two studio albums, one extended play (EP), 32 singles, five promotional singles, and one charity single under the record labels Sony Music Philippines and Sindikato. " - I'm not sure if it's typical for discography lists to be laid out like this, but shouldn't the group be introduced first? E.g. "The Filipino indie folk/folk pop/pop rock band Ben&Ben was formed as The Benjamins in 2015 by Paolo and Miguel Benjamin Guico. It has released two studio albums, one extended play (EP), 32 singles, five promotional singles, and one charity single under the record labels Sony Music Philippines and Sindikato." Not a big issue however, as I can see why it's currently laid out this way.

• Yep, I consulted several discographies and some use this format. There's no MOS for such articles, so I assume any layout is fine.

• "the band has released 27 music videos, and their songs have made appearances in 12 films and television series." - Is the band singular or plural?

• Covered this above with Chris. Philippine English considers collective nouns (bands) singular.

• Also, wouldn't it be more appropriate to say that "their songs have been used in 12 films and television series". I know it's used in the figurative sense, but it is a little strange to me since songs aren't physical things that can "appear".

• Yeah, I can see it being weird, personally I just copypasted it from mewithoutyou discography. Changed.

• "the band was renamed, and released an eponymous EP consisting of seven songs." - The comma here is not necessary.

• Removed.

• "Ben&Ben expanded,[1] with the Guicos as acoustic guitarists, and added Poch Barretto as electric guitarist, Jam Villanueva as drummer, Agnes Reoma as bassist, Patricia Lasaten as keyboardist, Toni Muñoz and Andrew de Pano as percussionists, as well as Keifer Cabugao as violinist" - Currently this is a little redundant, because you say "Ben&Ben expanded...and added". I would just drop "and added".

• This sentence is a more discussed topic in this FLC, and has been changed several times, but yeah I can see your concern. Although I think "added" is still important since the sentence is blending in the Guicos (who have been in the band since inception) and new members. Moved Guico part to the bottom; what do you think?

• "In 2019, the band released its debut studio album, Limasawa Street, and released its second, Pebble House, Vol. 1: Kuwaderno, in 2021." - For consistency, it should be either:
  • "The band released its debut studio album, Limasawa Street, in 2019 and released its second, Pebble House, Vol. 1: Kuwaderno, in 2021."
  • "In 2019, the band released its debut studio album, Limasawa Street; in 2021, it released its second, Pebble House, Vol. 1: Kuwaderno."

• Picked the former. I added a semicolon after 2019 to separate the two.

• "In April 2020, Ben&Ben jumped from 48th to 29th place in the Billboard Social 50 chart" - When did they first rank on the chart (i.e. when did they become 48th"?)

• It's unclear, as all sources merely state "previously".

• "Later in August, Ben&Ben" - If it's the same August you can just say "The next month" or "In August".

• Picked the former.

• "the rest, as well as some of their previous songs" - The rest of the songs from this album?

• Nope, "the rest" refers to the rest of the songs from Kuwaderno that didn't reach 100.

Non-prose commentary to come later. Epicgenius (talk) 15:59, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Addressed your prose comments :) GeraldWL 16:22, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Drive-by comments by Nkon21

Discography looks like its in great shape! But there are a few minor things I would adjust:

• In Studio albums, adjust the width of the details column from 18 to 20, so flash drive doesn't take up an extra line
• This can same be done with extended plays, if you happen to want both sections to align.
• Personally, I would expand the width of sales and certs in studio albums so it doesn't look clamped, but that's up to you
• In singles under lead artist, adjust width of title column to 17
• Remove "style="width:10em;" for Year, as its unnecessary
• Add "plainrowheaders" to Appearances on soundtracks

ɴᴋᴏɴ21 ❯❯❯ talk 18:25, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Nkon21, thanks for this! I've done most, except for number 3, and last, since it's common practice not to have plainrowheaders if the first row is year. GeraldWL 20:15, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Sounds fine to me. In addition, I believe there are usually bullet points in the sales and certification column. I would also remove the abbr. template from the "PARI" in studio albums as the link makes it unable to be seen. ɴᴋᴏɴ21 ❯❯❯ talk 23:13, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Nkon21, hmm... this is my first time in discography articles, but the sales and cert is just one here so I don't think a bullet is needed. The PARI one uses Template:Abbrlink which is a fairy common template, so I don't think there's accessibility issues there. GeraldWL 03:08, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Oh, I see the problem now. It should instead be written out as "{{abbrlink|PARI|Philippine Association of the Record Industry}}" per the template documentation, that's why I couldn't see the expanded text when hovering over the wikilink before. After this is adjusted I'll be happy to support! ɴᴋᴏɴ21 ❯❯❯ talk 03:18, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Nkon21 haiyaa I didn't notice that *facepalm*, thanks a lot! Done :) GeraldWL 03:23, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

• That's all from me, Support ɴᴋᴏɴ21 ❯❯❯ talk 03:41, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Source review passed; promoting. --PresN 15:24, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.