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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Yellowhammer/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 12:29, 14 May 2014 [1].


Yellowhammer edit

Nominator(s): Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:45, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A rude poem by Rabbie Burns, children's author Enid Blyton and Beethoven are all connected to this small yellow bird. Thanks to Brian Boulton for his helpful pre-FAC comments and his invaluable assistance with Beethoven and Messiaen Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:45, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support: I did a talkpage review, couldn't find much wrong. One of the good things about Jim's bird articles is that they often contain information of interest to non-bird people, in this case the Beethoven and Messiaen details. I have to say I find it hard to believe that the monumental opening to Beethoven's Fifth (DAH-DAH-DAH DURRRRRRRR!!!) owes much to the yellowhammer's song – if I heard that in my back garden I'd drop dead with fright. But I digress; the article is well up to Jim's high standards and will make a worthy FA. I'll return and do a sources check if someone doesn't get there first. Brianboulton (talk) 18:22, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your kind words, support and previous assistance Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:35, 6 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Brian, I think we might hit you up for that source review if you wouldn't mind... Tks/cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:36, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support

  • Did you know that the first para in the Distribution and habitat section finishes without a cite?
  • "Predators and parasites": I'm never keen on starting a paragraph (or a sentence come to that) with a numeral. I'm sure I was told not to at University.
  • "Although the population appear to be declining..." →"Although the population appears to be in a decline"?

Usual top-notch stuff! Implement or disregard at your discretion. This was easy to read, concise, and above all, very interesting! Cassiantotalk 18:49, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for review, heartening words and support. The ref got lost when I split an earlier longer paragraph, added now, other two fixed too Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:35, 6 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support. I can find little to quibble about and believe the article meets the criteria.

  • The lead has "Children's writer Enid Blyton helped to popularise..." where I would start with the definite article: "The children's writer...". I'm not sure if my version is "better". Perhaps Tim riley has an opinion.
    • I agree. This would be better. Cassiantotalk 19:10, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • So do I. Now that I'm here I'll read the article and join this review in earnest a.s.a.p. Tim riley talk 21:55, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Another great article. Well done. Aa77zz (talk) 19:05, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest removing the MHNT in the figure legend. Aa77zz (talk) 20:31, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for review and support, "the" added, MHNT binned (it was there because the original caption had only the acronym) Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:35, 6 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support – I vastly enjoyed this article, which is wonderfully diverse in its approach. I don't think I have ever read an article that contained so many words I didn't know, but the erudition is lightly worn and the prose is very readable indeed. Two exceedingly minor quibbles:

  • Lead
    • "…song with a A little bit of bread..." – shouldn't that be "…with an A little bit…?
  • In culture (I found this section enchanting, by the way)
    • Catalogue d'oiseaux not Catalogue d'oiseau – not a lot of point in cataloguing one bird.

I know little about birds, other than the ones that go with roast potatoes, but this article looks to my layman's eye to be comprehensive, and it certainly meets the other FA criteria. A real treat! – Tim riley talk 22:24, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm blushing! Many thanks for review and support. Changes made as suggested (I don't know how oiseau got that far, even I know the correct plural) Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:35, 6 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Image review
I'm on my way out, but here's some quick image comments. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:47, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for image review, I've replaced the potentially problematic ogg with an EL to xeno-canto. Pity we can't have the song in the text, but that's life Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:55, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Prose review:
    • Per the new WP:CAPS, shouldn't "Yellowhammer" be the lower-case "yellowhammer" in the article? Goes for the rest of species names as well.
The policy came in during the FAC, I was hoping to get away with it, but done now. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:36, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • A little bit of bread and no cheese - why is this in italics? WP:WORDSASWORDS?
I'm so used to writing bird songs in italics I didn't really think about this one, done now Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:36, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Would #Subspecies work better as full sentences?
Done Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:36, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Do we have any images of females?
The existing File:Emberiza citrinella LC229.jpg, whic is labelled as a female is probably the best we have, although not brilliant. Cropped following Indopug's suggestion below Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:36, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Adults have a complete moult after breeding which takes at least eight weeks - this needs to be reworked; "after breeding" is begging for a comma after breeding, but doing so would suggest that the birds breed for at least 8 weeks.
Rejigged "After breeding..." Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:36, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • The introduced birds are of the British and Irish race, E. c. caliginosa. - rather than this closing the paragraph, I think this should be worked into the first few sentences
Done Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:36, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yellowhammers are monogamous and breed in the year following hatching. - juveniles breed in the year after they hatch, or the adults breed in the year after their eggs hatch?
Aged one year Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:36, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • The Yellowhammer adds invertebrates to its diet in the breeding season, particularly as food for its growing chicks. - if you have this, is the mention of invertebrates as supplements in the above paragraph necessary?
Done Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:36, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Males with high parasite levels produced fewer offspring (there is no such effect for females), and tend to be less brightly coloured. The striking plumage of the male may have arisen as a signal of fitness to breed. - perhaps connect the sentences, using something like "as such,"
Added a "therefore", feel free to tweak if that's inadequate Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:36, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • "little bit of bread and no cheese" - you've got it in quotes when Blyton uses it.
Done Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:36, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Beethoven also used the Yellowhammer theme in two piano sonatas, no. 21 in C major, the "Waldstein", (Op.53) and No. 23 in F minor, the "Appassionata" (Op.57). - owing to the commas, this looks like you have four works listed. Perhaps rework?
Parenthesised names to improve flow Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:36, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • The last two paragraphs of the article are quite short. Any way to expand and/or merge them? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:38, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm reluctant to merge that when there is so little connection between the ideas expressed. I've added a few words to the last pargraph, which is all I have. I can't expand Messiaen without getting into his metaphysics, irrelevant to a biology article. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:36, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for your careful review and comments, much appreciated Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:59, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on prose and images. Very good work. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:16, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for support Jimfbleak - talk to me? 07:54, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Minor comments Isn't the photo of the Male E. c. citrinella superior to the one in the infobox? I think you should switch them. Also the pic of the female could do with a closer crop. There are better pics of the sparrowhawk too: [2], [3].—indopug (talk) 05:04, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for suggestions, all implemented. Looks better Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:59, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comment by Aa77zz after recent changes

  • The grammar is seriously wrong in the revised Subspecies section. Aa77zz (talk) 06:22, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Aaarghh—that was my final edit last night, after a couple of glasses of Carménère . I think it shows, rewritten in English now. Sorry Jimfbleak - talk to me? 07:54, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sources review

No significant issues: all external links working, all formats consistent and correct, all sources high quality and reliable. One (very minor) point: as far as I can see, access to the Yellowhammer details in ref 3 does not require a subscription. Otherwise all well with sources. Brianboulton (talk) 20:40, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for sources review, Brian. Ref 3, to HBW, only shows the boring taxonomy section in full if you are not logged in to a paid-for account. All the other sections are two lines and a read more which links to a requirement to have an account to see the rest of the text. If you can really see the whole text, I want my money back (: Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:04, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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