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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/We Are X/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Sarastro1 via FACBot (talk) 22:38, 17 November 2017 [1].

We Are X edit

Nominator(s): ISD (talk) 10:53, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a rockumentary film about X Japan, arguably the biggest rock/metal band in Japan. The film deals with the turbulent history of the band in general and its front-man Yoshiki in particular. The article covers all aspects of the movie, including plot, production, reception and the soundtrack. The article is already a GA, has been on DYK? and has been peer reviewed. It is hard to think how the article can be expanded to cover any other aspects that may be worth mentioning. I think it is suitable to be promoted to GA and await any further comments. ISD (talk) 10:53, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sources review edit

  • Italicisation of source publishers: italicisation should be used for printed sources – magazines, newspapers, books – but not otherwise, i.e. not for organisations such as Anime News Network or CNN, or for websites such as Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic and many others.
  • Website titles such as Deadline.com or fluxmagazine.com should not be given as publishers, when the publisher's name is available
  • Some sources may not meet FA standards of quality and reliability; can you comment on the following?
  • Blood Red Dragon (note you have mis-typed this title)
  • Loudwire
  • J. Rock News
  • Brave Words
  • Jame world

Apart from the above points, the sources and citations look well organised and, in general, solid. Brianboulton (talk) 21:56, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Brianboulton: I've tried to make some changes. I think I've corrected the italicisation but I'm not sure about all of it (e.g. MyM Buzz, as MyM is the magazine by MyM Buzz is the website. Most of the italicisation comes from the use of "work=" rather than "publisher=" in the citation templates. Concerning the sources:
  • Blood Red Dragon - Comic book that is mentioned in the film. As is directly mentioned by the film itself I assume that makes it reliable, but if I'm wrong do correct me.
  • Loudwire and Brave Words are both print heavy metal magazines and thus I assume makes them reliable.
  • J. Rock News - Replaced reference with one directly from the film's official website, which I assume is a reliable source.
  • Jame World - Replaced reference with one from Anime News Network.
ISD (talk) 16:46, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • OK. Incidentally, the "work=" field is generally used in connection with "publisher=", so that the work title is italicized but the publisher's name is not. Organisations like CNN etc are not "works". I'll check again, but I think you've got then hang of it. I hope you get some content comments soon. Brianboulton (talk) 19:01, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Brianboulton: Thanks for the update. If there is anything else I need to carry out do let me know. ISD (talk) 20:59, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from SLIGHTLYmad 03:18, 2 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comments

I was involved in the evaluation of this article against the Good Article criteria and I'm happy to see it nominated against FA. Just a few quibbles however:

  • Lead:
  • I feel like the "mixed reviews" roundup here should also be included in its respective section, as well as supported with a reliable source as MoS requires this. Otherwise this is original research. On that note, I also think the Critical reception's last two paragraphs should be copyedited; the A said B structure is really tiresome and has been repeated around articles that has a Reception section. Have a look at this essay; it gives a couple of interesting points on how can this section deliver a fine read. The first paragraph should stay, though, as Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic aggregate scores are pretty standard to report on film articles.
  • "...while others criticized the film of hero worshiping": is 'hero worshiping' supposed to be a compound adjective (i.e. hero-worshiping)? In any case, this sentence needs a copyedit for clarity.
  • It's an established practice to add alt texts on each and every photos in this article. Try to be a bit descriptive when you deliver them.

Otherwise, looks good. I may do some minor copyedit on the prose for some that I missed. SLIGHTLYmad 06:16, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Slightlymad: I've tried to make all the changed you requested. I've added the alt-text to the images, I've edited "hero-worshipping" (I think it is a double p), and I've tried altering the reception section to read better. ISD (talk) 09:35, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The "mixed reviews" is still unsourced. SLIGHTLYmad 13:42, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Slightlymad: I've have removed the "mixed reviews" comment as I feel it is easier to go without it. ISD (talk) 17:49, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Image review edit

All files have reasonable ALT text. I see that the three last ones have a watermark/credit in the image which is a little distracting. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 14:55, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: Do you think it would help to contact the people responsible for the images? If not should I just get rid of the three photos and uses something else? I believe that these photos of X Japan's frontman Yoshiki are free-use and might possibly be suitable.
ISD (talk) 15:25, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No, the images are fine. It's the file description on Commons I wonder about. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 15:35, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Jo-Jo Eumerus: - Oh I understand. I've tried expanding the description for the poster image. I don't know if OK now though. ISD (talk) 17:25, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Cas Liber edit

Ok I know nothing of the band so can read with a neophyte's eye....

I wonder whether "hero-worshipping" is too informal for the lead. An alternative is not springing to mind however....
X Japan's story is told through the life of Yoshiki leading up to their performance at Madison Square Garden on October 11, 2014 - this sentence sounds odd - makes Yoshiki sound gender neutral...or plural...
his childhood friend, X Japan co-founder and vocalist Toshi was "brainwashed" by a cult leading to the group's breakup in 1997 - needs expanding and explaining
There is a lot of material from the first para repeated in the second para of the Plot section - this comes over as disjointed. You need to combine and rationalise them.
However, due to Pata being diagnosed with a life-threatening illness.. - better to say what the illness is, it sounds melodramatic otherwise.
the concert was postponed a whole year - "whole" redundant. Maybe better to say "almost 12 months" or something.
  • @Casliber: I believe I've carried out the changed you asked for. Let me know if they are OK and if so if you support the article being promoted. ISD (talk) 12:07, 3 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The plot is still disjointed. Try to meld the two paragraphs and place the sentences in chronological order. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 16:09, 3 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Casliber: I've merged the two paragraphs together and arranged the plot chronologically. The opening sentence has also been reworked to mention that he is the frontman, which should solve the issue of his name sounding gender neutral or plural. ISD (talk) 17:28, 3 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
''It follows his childhood friendship with vocalist Toshi, who first met each other at the age of four - Toshi didn't meet "each other" - needs rewording.
However, when Yoshiki was 10 his father committed suicide when he was still a child aged 10 - "However" not needed as not contrastive with previous sentence - also two "age 10"s here
Eventually the band formed, resulting in the development of visual kei and their early successes - umm....why "eventually"? He was 10 in previous sentence. Why not just have the circumstances and/or date, also I don't understand what it has to do with visual kei here.
guitarist hide died five months later in a reported suicide but what the band believe to have been the result of an accident when he tried to do a neck-stretching exercise while drunk - grammatically clunky, needs rewording. maybe "guitarist hide died five months later in a reported suicide, though the band believe he died accidentally, trying to do a neck-stretching exercise while drunk" or something
where he went into classical music - too colloquial sounding, maybe "where he began writing/became interested in/performed (etc.) classical music " or something similar
Despite having stopped listening to heavy metal at 13 or 14 years old in favor of new wave, Kijak listened to the band's music and was immediately drawn to it and surprised he had never heard it before. - needs tightening, try "Despite not having listened to heavy metal since age 13 or 14 in favor of new wave, Kijak was immediately drawn to the band's music, surprised he had never heard it before."
Francis Rizzo III from DVD Talk commented on the quality of the release saying that visually it is of mixed quality due to good quality of the more recent material balanced out by the poor quality of archive material that, "often suffers from artifacting and pixelation". - here, you don't need to say recent material is good as we'd pretty well expect it to be.

Overall, I think the article is looking better but I do think the prose needs more eyes - I don't have the eye for detail that some other here do so I suspect there will be more prose issues. I will ping some who might be interested...@Ceoil:...Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:24, 4 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Casliber: I've changed the Rizzo comment so hopefully that is better too. ISD (talk) 19:57, 4 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Ceoil edit

Have read through about half, and would like to track down a copy of the doc before I support/oppose either way. Am copyediting as I read through, overall it seems good; the lead is very well written. My main observation for now is that the article gives too much weight to release schedules and critical reception and not enough to plot and production, which are sections 20 times more interesting. Ceoil (talk) 20:36, 4 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Ceoil: OK. If you wish to see the documentary, it is available on DVD and Blu-Ray. I don't think it has been released as a download yet. As the film is a documentary I'm unsure how much I should write about it in the plot. ISD (talk) 08:48, 5 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Closing comment: This FAC has been open for two months now, with no consensus to support. I will be archiving shortly and I would recommend working with Casliber and Ceoil away from FAC. In any case, this can be renominated after the usual two-week waiting period. Sarastro1 (talk) 22:38, 17 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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