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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/This Side of the Moon/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 31 August 2021 [1].

This Side of the Moon edit

Nominator(s): Aoba47 (talk) 04:10, 11 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Elizabeth Cook's third album, This Side of the Moon. The songs were inspired by her experience with the Warner Bros. record label, which released her second album Hey Y'all. Although Hey Y'all was critically acclaimed, it was commercially unsuccessful following record label issues and a lack of airplay on country radio. After voluntarily leaving Warner Bros., Cook recorded the songs which eventually formed This Side of the Moon independently as separate "song experiments". She worked with five producers in eight Tennessee recording studios. The album received positive reviews, but like Hey Y'all, it performed poorly. As a result, it is a rather obscure album. I would honestly be surprised if anyone had heard of it prior to this FAC.

I worked on this article in 2020 following my work on the Hey Y'all article. I felt inspired to at least try a FAC for this article. I am looking forward to hearing everyone's feedback. I will do my best to further improve the article and address any suggestions. Thank you in advance! Aoba47 (talk) 04:10, 11 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image review edit

  • File:Thissideofthemoon.jpg needs a stronger FUR
  • Thank you for pointing this out. I have updated this, and I will be more than happy to revise it further if necessary. Aoba47 (talk) 19:43, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for pointing this out. I was uncertain about the watermark and I have very little expertise or knowledge about Wikipedia's image policy. I greatly appreciate the link as that helps a lot. I have decided to just remove the image as it is not entirely necessary. Aoba47 (talk) 19:43, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Lee Vilenski edit

I'll begin a review of this article very soon! My reviews tend to focus on prose and MOS issues, especially on the lede, but I will also comment on anything that could be improved. I'll post up some comments below over the next couple days, which you should either respond to, or ask me questions on issues you are unsure of. I'll be claiming points towards the wikicup once this review is over.

Lede
  • a soft release in August 2004 before Hog Country - is a soft release a lede thing? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:02, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is a fair point. I put this in the lead since the August 2004 release date is in the infobox so I did not want cause any unnecessary confusion by including only the wider May 27, 2005 release. But I am open to any suggestions regarding this. Aoba47 (talk) 21:42, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The following source (here) only mentions a national release, and since the album was released by a relatively small label, I would believe that the physical CD was only released in the US before it later became available for streaming. Aoba47 (talk) 21:42, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • At the very least, you can totally buy it in this country now... But if we don't have detailed info, I'm sure it can be omitted. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:25, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is a good point. I was likely just over-thinking it. The album is now even more readily available through streaming and online markets. I was more so worried about somehow misleading the reader, but I do not think this would be the case. I have removed that part from the article. Aoba47 (talk) 20:57, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • departure from Warner Bros. - this could be expanded a tad in the lede Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:02, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good point. I am not particularly good at writing the lede. I have expanded it and rewrote certain parts to ideally be a better introduction and overview of the album (and article), but please let me know if further revision is necessary. Aoba47 (talk) 22:19, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unfortunately, I could not find any sales information about this album. Aoba47 (talk) 21:53, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Prose
  • "Stupid Things" had "little label support", and - who are saying these quotes? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:08, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good point. It is always best to attribute quotes like that. I have added this into the prose. Aoba47 (talk) 21:53, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Gordon told Cook that she used songwriting to heal, and she joked it was because she "can't afford therapy beyond a lavender-scented candle" - not sure what we gain out of this sentence Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:08, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Removed. I agree that it is very trivial. I had debated about removing it in the past. Aoba47 (talk) 21:53, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • specifically on "Funny Side of Love", "Here's to You", and "Hard-Hearted".[22 - the next two paras state these names, so no need here Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:08, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Additional comments

Additionally, if you liked this review, or are looking for items to review, I have some at my nominations list. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:56, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you for the review so far. I will be more than happy to help out. Aoba47 (talk) 22:20, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by ChrisTheDude edit

  • "inspiration for her her follow-up album" - there is is a duplicated word in there :-)
  • Apparently, I really wanted everyone to know it was her album lol. I have removed it. Aoba47 (talk) 20:59, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Hey Y'all was commercially unsuccessful, was not played on country radio...." - an entire album wouldn't get played on the radio anyway, so maybe this needs to be something like "its songs were not played on country radio". This applies in a couple of places in the body too.
  • That is a very good point. I have revised it with your songs suggestions. Aoba47 (talk) 20:59, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In a 2005 Country Standard Time article, Rick Bell attribute this to" => attributed
  • Revised. Apologies for this very silly mistake. Aoba47 (talk) 20:59, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Jeff Gordon is the executive producer" => was
  • "with whom she worked with because they were signed...." - stray word in there
  • I must admit that this took me a few reads to actually catch. That really shows the benefit of these reviews as I kept reading over this error. Revised. Aoba47 (talk) 20:59, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fats Kaplin has an article so can be wikilinked, as does Tammy Rogers
  • Thank you for pointing it out. I have added the links. Aoba47 (talk) 20:59, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • @ChrisTheDude: Thank you for your review and your kind words. I believe that I have addressed all the above points, but let me know if anything else needs further revision. Have a great rest of your weekend! Aoba47 (talk) 21:00, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Damian Vo edit

  • Support It's well written and extensively researched. Damian Vo (talk) 11:14, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for the support! Aoba47 (talk) 16:26, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by Z1720 edit

Non-expert prose review.

  • "This Side of the Moon had a soft release" I think soft release is music jargon. Can this be expanded upon a little bit more in the lede? Perhaps describe it as a limited release, and describe in a sentence how/where the release was limited.
  • I have changed both instances of "soft release" to "limited release". I do not think "soft release" is specifically music jargon, as I have not seen this wording used by other music critics, but I think "limited release" is more direct. I could not find any further information on why this song had a limited release or more regarding that. The only thing I can find is that it happened and that's about it. Aoba47 (talk) 03:07, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "While reflecting on her career in 2017, Cook said that her first three albums were "tethered to Music Row", and she recalled being "very conflicted with the responsibility of having mainstream radio hits"." This sentence is a little confusing for me, because the previous information in the paragraph says during the album's recording sessions she was becoming an independent artist. I think there needs to be more explanation about how she considered herself an independent artist, but was still connected to Music Row in Nashville during this album's release.
  • She was an independent artist at the time of this album's recording (and still is one to the best of my knowledge). She is talking about how her first three albums are very much about her time in Nashville and she moved on from this subject matter in future releases. Based on the below comment, I decided to remove this part completely as it is more about her music career as a whole and not necessarily about this album in particular. Aoba47 (talk) 03:07, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "She said this changed with the 2007 release of her fourth studio album Balls, which she said allowed her to feel "very liberated as a songwriter"." I don't know if this should be in a different section or deleted, as this comes after this album's release. Perhaps this can be placed in the "Legacy" section to talk about the influence of this album on Cook's evolution as an artist.
  • I have decided to remove for the reason I stated above. The article does not have a "Legacy" section to put it in anyway. Aoba47 (talk) 03:07, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • For the Lyrics section, I think paragraph 1 and 3 can be merged together, as they are talking about similar themes. I also think that, since the article focused on Cook's experience with Warner Bros., this influence on the lyrics should be placed early in this section.
  • "This Side of the Moon had a "soft release" in August 2004." Soft release is in quotation marks, but it doesn't really explain what that means. This should be more explicit.
  • Changed to limited release without the quotations. Aoba47 (talk) 03:07, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "According to a 2005 press release, Cook planned to embark on a summer tour and perform at the Grand Ole Opry to support the album. Prior to the release, she had performed its music as part of her live shows." The second sentence should go before the first, or perhaps as the first sentence of the first paragraph, to keep everything chronological.
  • "Cook was a part of Thirty Tigers when the company changed its name from Emergent Music Marketing in 2006." I'm not sure if this is relevant to this article, and perhaps can be deleted.
  • I included this part because of the sentence immediately before this one, which mentions how Thirty Tigers uploaded the "Before I Go That Far" music video to its YouTube channel so I thought an explanation on the connection between Cook and Thirty Tigers would be beneficial for readers. Aoba47 (talk) 03:12, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I still don't think this sentence is necessary because Emergent Music Marketing is not mentioned again in the article. Also, the quoted sentence doesn't explain Cook's relationship with Thirty Tigers; if that's the purpose of the sentence, it is not successful. Z1720 (talk) 00:54, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for the response. I have removed the sentence. Aoba47 (talk) 01:03, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Critics highlighted specific songs in their reviews." I don't know if this sentence is necessary. I think it's included to be an introductory sentence, but the subsequent sentences introduce the songs that the reviewer is talking about, so this might be redundant.
  • The Critical reception falls a little into the "X said Y" pattern. Is there a way to merge some of these reviews so it is describing what critics wrote, instead of what an individual reviewer wrote?
  • I do see your point, but I'm just not sure how to properly do this. I looked through the first paragraph in particular with this mind, but I think each of the critics individually make separate points about the album so I am struggling to find a way to combine certain elements. Any suggestions for this would be greatly appreciated. It's probably because I'm so used to the current version, and I am responding to these points at midnight. Aoba47 (talk) 03:28, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have combine two critics's opinions in the first paragraph as they deal with similar issues (i.e. Cook continuing a music career despite the poor sales of her first album). I hope that is helpful. Apologies for the delay on this. Aoba47 (talk) 22:11, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Don't worry about delays. I have taken far longer to respond to FACs for articles that I nominated. The critical reception section looks better, but it could be improved. I suggest reading the reviews in each paragraph and noting similar comments. If multiple reviewers say the same thing, that should be given priority over a single reviewer's opinion. Also, avoiding quotes helps with avoiding the "X said Y" formatting. Z1720 (talk) 00:54, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for the response. I will revise this section further tomorrow if that is okay with you (as I will likely experiment with different ideas in a sandbox). I will ping you when I have rewritten this section and have looked it over a few times to catch any errors. Aoba47 (talk) 01:03, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Take as much time as you need: I'm not in a rush and Wikipedia is a volunteer service. Z1720 (talk) 01:05, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is very true and I would rather have it done to the best of my ability than rush anything. Aoba47 (talk) 01:35, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Z1720: Just wanted to let you know that I have revised the first paragraph to point out some trends in the reviews and to cut down on the individual reviews. I have also made some minor adjustments to the second paragraph (i.e. putting reviews about the same song together) and the third paragraph (i.e. a sentence combination). Apologies for the ping. I just wanted to update you on the progress so far. Aoba47 (talk) 00:18, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Is it ready for me to reassess? If not, just ping me when it's ready. Z1720 (talk) 00:35, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • @Z1720: I believe that it is ready for reassessment. Aoba47 (talk) 01:15, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Those are my thoughts. Please ping when everything above has been responded to. Z1720 (talk) 18:55, 19 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Z1720: Thank you for the review. I believe that I have addressed all your comments and I will be more than happy to revise the article further. I hope you are having a great end to your week! Aoba47 (talk) 03:24, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Two comments above regarding Thirty Tigers and the Reception section. Z1720 (talk) 00:54, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for the comments! I greatly appreciate the help. Aoba47 (talk) 01:03, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Additional thoughts on the "Critical reception" section

  • "Some critics referenced Cook's departure from Warner Bros. while discussing the album." I don't think this is necessary, as it doesn't really describe the critical reception, but rather describes that reviewers talked about the article's history. The subsequent two sentences can be understood without this sentence, I think.
  • "and in his review for her fifth studio album Welder (2010), he said it was his favorite song." -> "and later said it was his favourite song." or "and said it was his favourite song six years after the album's release."? I don't think we need the information that he described it as his favourite song while reviewing another one of her albums.

This section looks a lot better, and the above are minor quibbles. Z1720 (talk) 21:33, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Z1720: Thank you for your additional comments. I have addressed both of them, and I will be more than happy to revise the article further if necessary. I hope you are doing well and staying safe. Aoba47 (talk) 03:57, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • My concerns have been addressed. I can support. Z1720 (talk) 15:30, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review–pass edit

  • Checked refs 1, 6, 7, 15, 21, 23, 25, 27, 30, 31, 34, 36, 37, and all checked out
  • Checked some publications' URLs I didn't know on Google Books and all that I checked were cited in university press-published books, except The Music Room. What makes it a high-quality source?
  • Thank you for checking! I actually ended up removing The Music Room source completely per comments from the above reviewer. I thought it would be considered appropriate for a featured article since it was an interview with Cook. I am not sure if that would be a good argument or not, but it is no longer part of the article anyway. Aoba47 (talk) 03:33, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Brodginski & Nelson 2005 should be formatted as cite press release
  • Revised. Thank you for pointing this out as I always forget about the separate press release citation format. Please let me know if further revisions to this are necessary as I am not used to this one. Aoba47 (talk) 03:44, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not sure YouTube should be given as the publisher of ref 30, as it hosts the video (via=), it didn't create it (publisher=Thirty Tigers)?
  • fn 23 seems to be page 58 not page 52 according to the google books link
  • ref 37 url is dead

Heartfox (talk) 23:55, 19 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Heartfox: Thank you for the source review. I believe that I have address all of your comments, but please let me know if I missed anything or if anything else requires further improvement. Have a great rest of your week! Aoba47 (talk) 03:47, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Heartfox, thanks for your spotcheck and formatting check, can I confirm that you're satisfied with the reliability of the sources employed? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:09, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Heartfox (talk) 20:48, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Ippantekina edit

As I have never heard of the album nor the singer, I hope my comments are objective and as comprehensive as possible.

  • "Cook based the album on her time with the Warner Bros. record label" this is unclear; do you mean that she based the album on her personal experiences with the label? "time" doesn't ring true to me
  • Reading the following sentences makes it clearer, but "based the album on her time with..." is pretty awkward to me
  • "who shared a music publisher" do we have a specific name of the publisher?
  • I have added the name of the music publisher. Cook said in an interview that she meet Hardie McGehee during her first publishing deal in Nasvhille so I was able to find the publisher name from there. Aoba47 (talk) 17:32, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Cook clarified that while "Here's to You" and "Hard-Hearted" sound like break-up songs, the lyrics are about her career." I think "clarified" is used when there is an initial misunderstanding, which I don't see here; "said" would probably be a better fit

The rest of the article is very well-written. This is my personal opinion, but I find it kind of weird that some singers instantly click, while some with actual talent sink so badly. Either way, I am happy to support once my minor comments are addressed. Brilliant work with the article. Ippantekina (talk) 03:52, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Ippantekina: Thank you for the review. I believe that I have addressed everything, but please let me know if anything needs further revision. I agree with your opinion. It is interesting to see which singers are successful and which ones fade away. I believe Cook's chances for success were greatly reduced by the lack of label and radio support, but that is speculation on my part. Thank you for the kind words, and I hope you are having a great weekend! Aoba47 (talk) 17:32, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for addressing everything. I support this FAC for promotion. Great work with the article. On another note, I would very much appreciate if you could comment on my latest FAC for I Knew You Were Trouble. Take care! Ippantekina (talk) 02:44, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for the support. I am currently reviewing another FAC at the moment, but I will post a review when I am completed with that one (and I do not imagine it will take long). I have a lot of fond memories of that song so I am looking forward to reading the article and learning more about it. Aoba47 (talk) 03:00, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from TheSandDoctor edit

The article is well written to the FA standard in my view. I am very happy to support this nomination. --TheSandDoctor Talk 03:16, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Viridian Bovary edit

I have the following three very minor comments:

  • I don't think "producers" and "arrangements" should be linked to their respective articles as these are common terms.
  • "The album also focuses on on love and heartbreak." Seems like a duplicate occurrence of "on".
  • "Prior to the album's release, she had performed its music as part of her live shows." The second paragraph of "Release and promotion" starts with this sentence, and it's not immediately clear who the "she" is given there is no mention of her in the first paragraph. I think it would be better to use "Cook" here.

I think this is a very well-written article, and is ready to be a FA. Great job! --Viridian Bovary (talk) 13:03, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Viridian Bovary: Thank you for the review. I believe I have addressed everything, but let me know if any further revisions are necessary. I hope you are having a great day so far! Aoba47 (talk) 14:54, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Status update edit

  • @FAC coordinators: Apologies for the ping. Just wanted to check on the status of the nomination as it has already received a source review, an image review, and quite a bit of commentary/reviews and support. Thank you for your time, and have a great rest of your week! Aoba47 (talk) 16:35, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Hi Aoba, will be checking over this w/e at the latest I expect... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:53, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thank you for the response, and apologies for my impatience. I hope you are doing well and have a great rest of your week. Aoba47 (talk) 03:04, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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