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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Unnatural (The X-Files)/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by GrahamColm 10:03, 25 November 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

The Unnatural (The X-Files)

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The Unnatural (The X-Files) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Gen. Quon (Talk) 14:53, 3 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is one of The X-Files more unusual episodes, featuring an baseball-loving alien. It, however, is also one of the series' more poignant episodes. I am nominating this for featured article because I feel it is ready for FA. It was promoted to GA in the late part of 2011, then promoted to A-class in the later part of 2012. It has been edited multiple times since then, and has been copy-edited twice, once by Baffle_gab1978 and once by JudyCS, both within the last year or so. All of the references are of the highest quality, its format is similar to other X-Files episodes that have been promoted to FA, and the prose is neutral, informative, and of good quality. I feel it is ready. Any comments would of course be appreciated. This article was just nominated a few weeks ago, but the discussion closed due to lack of comments. I'm hoping this time, we can get some more comments! I'd like to note that in the previous consideration, the article underwent an image review, if that helps at all!--Gen. Quon (Talk) 14:53, 3 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Image review by Cirt

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Comments by Cirt (addressed)

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Addressed comments by Cirt moved to talk page, by Cirt. — Cirt (talk) 22:43, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by WWB Too (addressed)

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  • Support—I responded to a previous nomination of this article, leaving a number of comments, and editor Gen. Quon was able to address my concerns. Overall, I think this article is very strong and support the nomination as a Featured Article. WWB Too (Talk · COI) 18:56, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done

Resolved comments from Ruby 2010/2013 18:01, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments from Ruby2010
  • ... but he does not want to, as he is unwilling to draw attention to himself. I know this is implied, but you might consider making the racial climate more obvious here (assuming that the episode also makes this explicit). Perhaps add on ...attention to himself due to the racist climate of the time.? Baseball color line might be a useful link to slip in there (or in the production section).
  • Why no mention of Rent in the lead?
  • Is there anything out there on why two brothers have the same name? Seems strange to me. Was it something to do with McGavin's exit?
  • McGavin later allowed the scenes to be included on the sixth season DVD as a bonus features. -- Removed bolded
  • Concerning the "great sorrow" quote by Spotnitz, what exactly is he referring to? That McGavin could not be in the episode, or that his scenes were included in the special features?
  • ...largely due to his role in the 1972 film and television series Kolchak: The Night Stalker." This sentence looks odd to me. Wouldn't this work better?: ...largely due to his role in the 1972 film The Night Stalker and the television series of the same name."?
  • The see also links could use an explanatory note, as their relevancy to this episode is not immediately obvious without clicking on them. So for instance, you could list "*William", another Duchovny-directed episode" (or something similar). Up to you. Also, The Natural is already linked above and should be removed. Ruby 2010/2013 16:59, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Sarastro1 (talk) 18:25, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
OpposeComments: Sorry to jump in like this, but after three supports I think a touch of cold water is needed to slow this down. I've just looked at the lead, and while it looks good I think the prose falls short of FA standard, and does not represent our best work. Just little things, but plenty of redundancy and some loose wording. I haven't read the rest of the article yet, and I think it needs a check and possible copy-edit for similar issues in the rest of the article before we go any further. As usual, though, this looks solid but I think a bit of work is needed to push it over the FA line. Sarastro1 (talk) 21:56, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”"The Unnatural" was written by lead actor David Duchovny, and it marked his debut as a television director.”: “"The Unnatural" was written and directed by lead actor David Duchovny” ( I don’t think we need the detail of his debut in the lead)
  • ”Although it concerns an alien,the episode is largely unconnected to the wider mythology of The X-Files, and functions as a "Monster-of-the-Week" story.”: Again, I don’t think this is necessary in the lead, as it will not be the first instinct of the general reader to think that alien=series mythology. (And do we need “largely”?)
  • ”The episode received overwhelmingly positive reviews from television critics and members of the cast and crew,”: Overwhelming is a little POV, and this reads oddly as cast and crew do not usually review episodes. Maybe something like “and was popular with/well-liked by cast and crew”.
  • ”most notably from series creator Chris Carter and co-star Gillian Anderson.”: Who says this is notable? Looks like editorial voice, and I’d suggest cutting “most notably” and using “including”.
  • ”Mulder is a believer in the paranormal, while the skeptical Scully has been assigned to debunk his work.”: As I think I’ve said elsewhere, had their relationship not progressed beyond this at that point in the series?
  • ”In this episode, Arthur Dales (M. Emmet Walsh), the brother of a previously recurring retired FBI agent with the same name”: Why do we need the link with his sibling in the lead? It will be meaningless to many readers, and reads clumsily.
  • ”Exley was actually an alien with a love of baseball, who was hiding among humans.”: I think this is implied in the rest of the sentence.
  • ”Duchovny was inspired to write the story after he connected the history of baseball in Roswell to the infamous 1947 Roswell Incident.”: This reads oddly. It looks like he went “OK, I’m going to connect these two unconnected ideas. There. Now I’m going to write a story about it!” I think the inspiration needs a better explanation.
  • ”Jesse Martin was first considered for the lead guest role as Exley after Duchovny noticed him in a production of the musical Rent.”: Why are we saying “first considered”? (And can you have “second considered”?) As he played the role, why not “Jesse Martin was offered the lead guest role…”?
  • ”Originally, Darren McGavin was cast to play the part of [as] Arthur Dales but, after he suffered a stroke, he was replaced by Walsh”
  • ”its unique structure”: Unique to what? The X-Files? Television? Literature? Sarastro1 (talk) 21:56, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    I have implemented your suggestions, here. Is there anyone you would suggest for a copy-edit? Everywhere else I've turned is a dead end.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 01:06, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
To be honest, I think the best way forward is to look for similar problems yourself. There are some excellent bits of advice within the exercises on Tony1's page, but to be honest the problems are not too hard to find and fix. Copyeditors, as I think I've written before, are rather patchy in quality and the best ones tend to be too busy to respond to requests from the blue. Sarastro1 (talk) 23:44, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

More comments: Similar problems in the plot section. This is from the first three paragraphs of that section, and I'm again seeing issues which should really have been picked up by now. Sarastro1 (talk) 23:44, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • "In 1947, a group of white and black baseball players play a game in Roswell, New Mexico. One of the players, Josh Exley (Jesse L. Martin), hits a foul ball.": Several issues, although all are easily sorted. "a group of black and white baseball players" seems to suggest multi-coloured players. We have "players play" which is best avoided. What about "In 1947, a mixed group of black and white men play baseball in Roswell, New Mexico." But I'm struggling to see the relevance of the foul ball.
  • "Some of the players think Exley has the ability to play in the Major Leagues, but he does not want to, as he is unwilling to draw attention to himself due to the racist climate of the time": Maybe "Some of the players think Exley has the ability to reach the Major Leagues but, unwilling to draw attention to himself in the racist climate of the time, he does not want to." Although I wonder about "does not want to" which implies he was approached. Assuming that in the episode, he brushes of these suggestions, maybe something like "he makes light of it" or "he brushes the suggestions aside".
  • "Players from both teams fight back": What two teams? No teams have been mentioned.
  • "Mulder spots an article showing a young Arthur Dales (Frederic Lane)—the original investigator of the X-Files division—Josh Exley and the Alien Bounty Hunter (Brian Thompson).": Who is the Alien Bounty Hunter? A brief explanation would help. Also, the lead suggests that Dales had already appeared in the series, but this does not come across here.
  • "When he seeks out Dales at his Washington, D.C. apartment, Mulder finds out that Dales has moved to Florida": A bit nit-picky here, but if he doesn't live there anymore, it is not his apartment. Also, we have too many Dales in this sentence. What about "Mulder seeks out Dales in Washington D.C. but discovers he has moved to Florida".
  • "Instead, Mulder meets his brother (M. Emmet Walsh), who is also named Arthur.": Whose brother? Ambiguous.
  • "Dales tells Mulder of when he met Exley back in 1947. At this point, the episode jumps back in time.": This is quite clumsy. What about something simpler like "In flashback, Dales tells Mulder about his meeting Exley in 1947"?
  • "That night on the bus with Exley and his teammates, Dales sees the sleeping Exley reflected in a window: Exley's reflection has the face of an alien.": Too many Exleys in this sentence. Maybe "That night on the bus with the baseball team, Dales sees the sleeping Exley reflected in a window; his image has the face of an alien". Sarastro1 (talk) 23:44, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Again, I have implemented your suggestions here. I focused on making the writing tighter and less wordy. I will continue to comb through the article. Sometimes, I just need a fresh pair of eyes to point out that some of the sentences are too specifically written.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 06:03, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

More comments: OK, changes looking good, and I've struck my oppose. Rather than continuing to list points, I've done a little copy-editing just to tighten up the prose, and it may be worth having another run through to see if there are any similar issues. Just a few points about which I'm not clear, and then I think I'm happy to switch to support. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:24, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • "he Alien Bounty Hunter, who has been pursuing the renegade alien, takes Exley's form": A bit jarring for those unfamiliar that he can take someone's form. Also, it may be worth giving a little context as to why he wants to kill Exley.
  • "takes Exley's form and murders a scientist while he investigates the green ooze that Dales found": Ambiguous who is investigating. From the edit, I assume the scientist. What about "murders a scientist investigating..."?
  • "The Bounty Hunter demands that Exley revert to his true form before he dies, but Exley refuses; the Bounty Hunter then kills him but Exley miraculously bleeds red, human blood": Too many buts.
  • "Duchovny was inspired to make the lead guest character black because in the 1940s Jackie Robinson became the first black player in the Major Leagues.": Something of a disconnect between the parts of this sentence; can we make it smoother?
  • "Duchovny set the story before the integration of the baseball leagues so that the story would make sense from a historical perspective": Not quite sure what this means.
  • I'm assuming McGavin recovered. Maybe worth saying so?
  • "granting the "alien his wish" to become human": The quotation marks seem to be in an odd place here.
  • "Contemporary reviews": What do we mean by this. It would usually mean reviews from the time of broadcast, but we've already had those. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:24, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks so much for taking time and looking through this. How do these changes look? I will also try to get someone to copy-edit/look through it just to be safe.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 00:25, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support: I'm more than happy with the changes now, and I've switched to support. I would still suggest getting another editor to cast an eye over the prose. But credit to the nominator for putting up with me and for working so quickly to improve the article. Sarastro1 (talk) 18:44, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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