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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Tessa Sanderson/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 20 May 2022 [1].

Tessa Sanderson edit

Nominator(s): BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:49, 17 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the British javelin thrower, who had a distinguished sporting career. Sanderson made six appearances at the Olympic games, and won gold in 1984. Despite the excellent contibutions and suggestions in the GA review by Sillyfolkboy, the copyedit by Miniapolis, and the Peer Review by Sportsfan77777, no doubt much improvement is still possible. Thanks in advance for your comments, however scathing. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:49, 17 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Image review edit

  • Don't use fixed px size

Would also suggest going through refs before a full source review is done - there are a couple of error messages. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:39, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Nikkimaria. I've taken out the fixed px size, and amended references. I can't see any other obvious reference errors; if there are some, would you mind telling me the footnote numbers please? Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:33, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
53. Nikkimaria (talk) 11:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
D'oh! Thank you. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:17, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Nikkimaria, do you have any outstanding issues with the images (or anything else in the article)? Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:23, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nope. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:54, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by mujinga edit

  • Wow, appearing at six Olympics, that's impressive! Comments to follow. Mujinga (talk) 16:03, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Shame there aren't more pix of her.
  • "During her career, Sanderson had an acrimonious rivalry with fellow Briton Fatima Whitbread, who took the bronze at the 1984 Olympics" - I got stuck on this sentence in the lead, I'm not sure if "acrimonious" is justifiable and I think I'd prefer something like "fellow British athlete Fatima Whitbread, who took the bronze in the javelin at the 1984 Olympics"
  • Further, Whitbread is mentioned quite a few times before the "Rivalry with Fatima Whitbread" so I'd suggest bringing that up to her first mention in the text, so it's better contextualised why you are mentioning her. As a side issue to that, were there any other british rivals to sanderson or was it always just whitbread in javelin?
  • "Sanderson was appointed a Member of the Order of the British Empire (MBE) in 1985, and became a CBE on the 2004 New Years Honours" - should the OBE be mentioned here also?
  • This was taken out following the GA review comment that "here is a bit too much detail on the honours for the lead" - I'll see what other reviewers think. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:54, 23 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • " (which aims to encourage young people and people with disabilities to take up sport) in 2009." - suggest cut "in 2009"
  • I already thought "Media work" mentioned too many shows and when I got to the "Media appearances" list it seemed like overkill, I'd suggest spinning the list off into a separate article and having that linked under "Media work", then the shows can be trimmed down
  • "Rated as the third-best woman javelin thrower of all time, Sanderson went" - rated by whom/what? and also it seems a bit out of place to say that here when her career is ongoing
  • "Sanderson later threatened to boycott athletics events, for which she was being paid £1,000 each by British Athletics; Whitbread was receiving £10,000 per event. Sanderson agreed to a new deal at the beginning of June." - this reads a bit jerky and perhaps needs an extra sentence to explain the conflict with Whitbread
  • "By this time, former pop star Adam Faith was Sanderson's agent." - this sentence doesn't seem to add much
  • "British Amateur Athletic Board (whose promotions officer was a family friend of Whitbread) and the support that Whitbread and Whitbread's mother (who coached Whitbread) gave to Sue Howland" - too many "whitebreads" here, can it be rephrased?
  • "the Securicor Games in July" - what are the Securicor Games? a world championship for over-40s?
  • According to this article from 1996, it was "One of the final Grand Prix events before Atlanta comes to London offering members of Britain's Olympic squad the chance to improve recent form and test healing injuries". BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:34, 20 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "She also competed in the pentathlon and heptathlon,[1] setting UK and Commonwealth records for the heptathlon twice in 1981.[43]" - should be moved up to an earlier position since here the paragrpah begins by talking about her retirement in 1997
  • "Celebrity Special (1991), Celebrity Wife Swap (2009),[51][52]" - sentence needs to end properly
  • "A Wednesfield housing estate near where she began learning the javelin throw, Sanderson Park, is named after her.[71]" - i got stuck here first time round because I thought a park in the housing estate was named after her, so I'd suggest something like "A housing estate in Wednesfield near where she began learning the javelin throw was named Sanderson Park after her.[71]
  • "Sanderson said that her affair with Evans (also known as Mr Motivator) began after his marriage had broken up.[5]" - I'd quite like a link her for Evans but of course he was mentioned already above, so I'd suggest either linking again or mentioned above that she had a romantic attachment with him
  • "She had three unsuccessful in vitro fertilisation treatments by age 50" - "She had three unsuccessful in vitro fertilisation treatments by the age of 50"?
  • The tables may need work on accessibility, I'm afraid I'm far from being the expert here but at FLC a while back I was asked to use scope="col", MOS:DTAB is the relevant guide but I'll leave it to someone knowledgeable about it to say more
  • Added col scopes but will do more as per any additional advice from reviewers. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:37, 20 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm reassured that I'm not the only person to have spent time investigating her pantomime appearances. Added in. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:01, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the note I think it's program not programme
  • That's what I found on a first sweep! Mujinga (talk) 16:46, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for the replies, before supporting I'll wait to see what others think about the media section and how the rivalry with Whitbread is handled Mujinga (talk) 08:14, 22 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mike Christie edit

I'm copyediting as I read through; please revert anything you disagree with.

  • "A six-time Olympian from 1976 to 1996, she won the gold medal in 1984 for Great Britain. In 1996, she became the second track and field athlete (after discus thrower Lia Manoliu) to compete at six Olympics." A little repetitive. How about "She appeared in every Olympics from 1976 to 1996, winning the gold medal in 1984, and becoming the second track and field athlete to compete at six Olympics." We don't need to say she won for Great Britain -- the previous sentence says she's British. And I don't see any reason to mention Manoliu in the lead.
  • I agree with Mujinga that the rivalry with Whitbread should be mentioned once her name comes up in the body. Perhaps "When Sanderson returned, she finished fourth at the 1983 World Championships; another British competitor, Fatima Whitbread, with whom Sanderson had a rivalry that lasted for the next N years, won silver."
  • "In 2006, she founded an academy in Newham which helped to find and train athletes to represent Britain in the 2012 Summer Olympics. The Tessa Sanderson Foundation and Academy was established in September 2009 to encourage young people and people with disabilities to take up sport with mentoring and support." Do we know if either of these academies is still active?
  • Looking at Charity Commission information here, perhaps it is not. The organisation's website is still live, but it looks seems like neither that or their facebook page has been updated recently. I'll investigate a bit further. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:01, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    If you can't find out, that's fine; it would be worth mentioning if the information is available. I'll strike since either way is OK. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:30, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I didn't find anything conclusive after checking Google News and Newsbank. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:47, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The media work seems too detailed to me. I would suggest combining "Sports administration" with "Media work" as a section titled something like "After competition", and reducing the media mentions to a sentence or two just listing the names of the most prominent programs -- perhaps her stint with Sky News, and EastEnders, and one or two others. I would also cut the tables of media appearances and pantomime appearances. To be honest, I'm not sure if this material is even notable enough for a subarticle, but that would be better than leaving it here.
  • Moved lists to Draft:Tessa Sanderson on screen and stage. I've combined the sections as suggested; "After competition" doesn't quite seem right as many media appearances were whilst she was still competing. I've put "Outside competition" for now as I couldn't think of a better alternative. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:01, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Hall of Fame candidates, selected by a panel of experts, are included by a public vote": suggest "Candidates for the Hall of Fame are selected by a panel of experts and then voted on by the public."
  • "Sanderson said that her affair with Evans (also known as Mr Motivator) began after his marriage had broken up." This is written as though we already know who Evans is. The only mention was in the media section, and even if you don't cut that as I suggest above I think this needs to be rewritten to name him; and in this context it might be worth mentioning the fitness videos if the sources mention them when discussing her affair with him.
  • The season rankings graph needs some gridlines to guide the eye. I can't tell from this if she was ever ranked #1, for example.
  • I've added gridlines. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:47, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    One more finicky point: you have the graph running from 0-26 -- can we not display those numbers? The top line should be "1", not "0", and I think the horizontal axis should be "25", not "26". Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:15, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've set yAxisMax to 2, which at least covers all values necessary. Setting it to 1 causes the y Axis max to be 0. Not sure if it's a scaling or other issue. I think I'd prefer not to create a graphic outside the inbuilt tools, as at least the way it currently is is, the x-axis scales for the Season bests (javelin throw) and Season rankings align. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:29, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suggest a note below the competitions table explaning what "(q)" means. I see you have a footnote, but I think it would be better to attach the explanation to the table itself.

Overall this seems in good shape. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:21, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support. It's disappointing that the graph won't do what it ought to do, but I think it's OK to let that go. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:24, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source review edit

Footnote numbers refer to this version.

  • Check your usage of the publisher, website, and work parameters in {{cite web}}. The website and work parameters are identical; one is just an alias for the other. Typically this would get used for the name of the website -- e.g. "United Kingdom Athletics" in [1]. You have uka.org.uk instead; you can put the domain name in if there's no website name, but that's rare. The publisher is only needed if it's not obvious from the website name -- so here you don't need "publisher=United Kingdom Athletics" because that's going to go in the website name. Looking through your citations you seem to be using "work=" correctly but when you use "website=" you're using the domain name.
  • [4] suggest adding "|url-access=registration".
  • [6] needs a date.
  • Mark [33], [34] as paywalled.
  • [36], [42], [77] - the archive link doesn't work.
  • Looks like NewsBank urls can't be archived. I couldn't get the GBooks [77] link to archive. Archive urls removed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:45, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • [20] and [73] are the same source.
  • You're inconsistent about including publisher locations for books; [17] has a location but [6], [71], [76], and [77] do not. You don't have to include locations but it should be consistent.

Sources all look reliable. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:53, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Fixes all look good, but have a look at what is now [76]; I'm seeing a CS1 error -- you have a parameter "URL"; there's no such parameter. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:20, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorted that one out now. Thank you. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 07:52, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:33, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pass. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:33, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Edwininlondon edit

Good to see this here. The more women's bios the better. With the caveat that I am neither an expert in the field nor a native speaker, here are my comments. I also made some minor edits already, please feel free to revert any you think I should not have.

  • and became a CBE --> which means?
  • Tonya Khristova --> which nationality?
  • took the silver;[8] she was the bronze medalist --> I'm not so sure about that semicolon as the 2 parts of the sentence are conceptually not very related
  • Ruth Fuchs --> I think that in international events, the nationality of the athlete should be given
  • Antoaneta Todorova and her world-record throw --> which was what?
  • for twenty-two months --> given that earlier you use 14 and 12th, per MOS:NUM this should be 22
  • British competitor --> earlier it is a UK national record. Should this be a UK competitor? I know at the Olympics athletes represent Great Britain, not the UK, but also at the 1983 World Championships?
  • I've made some amendments. I've retained "UK" for championships specifically called that, but changed other instances to British or national, as references to national records seem to be largely to "British record" rather than "UK record" (our article List of British records in athletics says: British records in athletics are the best performances in athletics events by athletes representing the United Kingdom which are ratified by UK Athletics (UKA)). I checked some news reports on the 1983 World Championships in Athletics – Women's javelin throw. The Daily Telegraph (UK) and The Sydney Morning Herald (Australia) both have "Britain's Fatima Whitbread"; the Philadelphia Enquirer (USA) has "Fatima Whitbread of Britain". Happy to look into this further if necessary. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 08:54, 3 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • She also won gold at the 1986 Commonwealth Games --> what happened in 1985?
  • She finished twelfth .. eleventh --> 12th .. 11th
  • before "the competition got to Whitbread's head", and they fell out --> I'm not so sure about that comma here
  • I respect her and I hope she respects me." --> are there any recent direct quotes from Whitbread? Would be good to add
  • I had a look in Newsbank going back to 2002, and tried search engines, and, surprisingly, didn't find anything usable. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:13, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Season rankings --> I miss an indication how these are determined
  • International competitions (javelin throw) -> should there not be a Ref column, like in the Personal bests table?
  • 10 Times AAA National Champion --> that capital T strikes me as odd
  • See also list of links is rather long. Any chance of cutting a few?
  • in the Infobox it says "Great Britain (1973–1996)" Should that not be 1997?

That's it. Thank you for brining this bio here. Nice work! Edwininlondon (talk) 20:33, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

One more comment:

  • I stumbled upon something she said about missing out on glory because of opponents' doping (see [2]). Perhaps worth considering incorporating? Edwininlondon (talk) 16:53, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, I agree and will add something in. I'm aware there are a couple of points above pending, as well. Thanks, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:06, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Added a little from this source, and moved the para about doping from Personal life to at the end of the Athletic career section. Thanks for the review, Edwininlondon. Let me know about anything else required. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:37, 3 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Sportsfan77777 edit

I'll leave a review. Noting I already left a lot of comments as part of the peer review. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 18:29, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

  • winning the gold medal in 1984 <<<=== either "winning a gold medal" OR "winning the gold medal in the javelin", and link 1984 to the competition here instead of later on with Whitbread
  • Sanderson also won gold medals in the javelin throw at three Commonwealth Games <<<=== don't need "also"
  • AAA National Champion ten times <<<=== specify "AAA National Champion in amateur athletics ten times". Also, I might suggest putting the UK national champion part before the AAA National Champion part as it seems more important.
  • There is a typo issue with the last sentence of the lead.
  • I don't think you need the years next to Great Britain in the infobox
  • Amended as per the suggestions above, not 100% sure I caught the typo in the last sentence of the lead. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:59, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Early life

  • she was cared for by her grandmother <<<=== start a new sentence (lacks parallelism otherwise)
  • encouraged her ===>>> encouraged her to succeed (avoid ending wth "her")
  • helper her ===>>> just "helped"

Early career

  • second-longest distance by a woman (add "at the time")
  • She was the bronze medalist at the 1977 IAAF World Cup ===>>> Later that year, Sanderson was the bronze medalist at the 1977 IAAF World Cup. (unclear "she" with both Fuchs and Sanderson in the previous sentence)
  • a rival to her ===>>> her rival
  • Do you know anything about her setting her personal best? Regardless, that seems like it might fit here better than at the end of the career section.
  • Personal best question pending, other three points addressed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:59, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Added a little about personal best, and moved it to earlier in the article. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:48, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Later career

  • with Whitbread taking the silver ===>>> while Whitbread took the silver (avoid these types of "with" transitions)
  • Sanderson announced that she would change her focus from the javelin throw to the heptathlon. <<<=== This seems incomplete (there is no follow-up on heptathlon events). Did she actually end up doing it or was it just her intention?
  • Heptathlon question pending, other point addressed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:59, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • She competed in heptathlon only one after that announcement, in July 1987. Seems like it was a minor competition; the only press coverage I could find was a passing mention in The Times. Her score was 3,521, compared to 3,880 that she scored in 1974. Added a mention (without all these details) in the article. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:48, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Rivalry

  • I think this section needs better organization. I would suggest splitting it into at least two paragraphs.
  • There might be one too many quotes, as there is some overlap between them.
  • The ordering of the sentences doesn't always makes sense. I would start the setup for the rivalry, which seems like it could maybe include the last quote in the section as well. I might separate the summary of the results comparison into its own paragraph.

Return

  • the boycott ===>>> a wider boycott led by the Soviet Union
  • I don't know if the paragraph on PEDs really fits here, but I'm not so sure what to do with it. I'll think about it more.

Outside competition

  • Okay.

Honours

  • Okay.

Personal life

  • with Evans ===>>> with Evans, a fitness instructor.

Career statistics

  • 8.5s <<<=== missing a space
  • I don't think you need to specify "(javelin throw)" in the titles. All of them are javelin throw. Only two of them are javelin throw plus other events.
  • "Tessa Sanderson's javelin throw record, representing Great Britain and England in international competitions" ===>>> "Tessa Sanderson's javelin throw record" and put "representing Great Britain and England in international competitions" in a sentence in prose right above the table.
  • In national titles, put ":" after each competition name and remove the parentheses for the last two. Same for Midland Counties.
  • Write one sentence stating what the Midland Counties Championships are. It's not mentioned anywhere else.

References

  • I would capitalize "My life in athletics" the same way it is done in the prose.
  • Ref 19 has SANDERSON in all caps for no reason.
  • Use the modern template for Ref 46 (which is archived). Otherwise, it doesn't match the rest.

The rivalry section is the only part that needs a decent amount of improvement. The rest seems good! I'll look at it again after these comments are addressed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 19:35, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks Sportsfan77777. As you can see, I had previously made a lot of changes based on your peer review comments. Let me know about what else is needed. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:48, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Second read-through

  • In the lead: and established the Tessa Sanderson Foundation ===>>> and later established the Tessa Sanderson Foundation
  • The rivalry section is a lot better! Sportsfan77777 (talk) 10:52, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the career statistics section, I was suggesting to get rid of "(javelin throw)" in all of the subsection headers.
  • In the later career statistics section, I meant add colons (":"), not periods ("."). I assume that was not intentional?

Just those things left. Support, good work! Sportsfan77777 (talk) 10:52, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Made those amendments too. Many thanks for the very helpful reviews. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:21, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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