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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Tawfiq Canaan/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Karanacs 20:26, 25 August 2009 [1].

Tawfiq Canaan edit

Nominator(s): Tiamuttalk 22:03, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Toolbox

I am nominating this for featured article because it received a very good review when it was promoted to good article status and though it failed its first FAC nom, it has been expanded and refined since, and has enjoyed longstanding stability in its current form. I would have re-nominated it earlier, but one major stumbling block to a successful FAC nom was the lack of a photo of Canaan. After returning from a short absence from Wikipedia, I am overjoyed to see that a resourceful editor has found one. I look forward to hearing your comments on this second-try at my first real FAC nom. Tiamuttalk 22:03, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Done; thanks. Images need alt text as per WP:ALT. Eubulides (talk) 22:40, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Thanks for bringing my attention to that. Had never seen it before. Tiamuttalk 23:15, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for looking into that. That alt text is pretty good, but it could still stand some improvement. Phrases like "Black-and-white photograph of" should be removed, as they're not that helpful. Also, phrases like "Old City of Jerusalem", "Dome of the Rock", and "Tawfiq Canaan" should be removed, as they are details that are not immediately obvious to a non-expert who can see only the images themselves. I suggest altering the book cover alt text to just say "Book cover saying" and then giving the text of the book cover, rather than all the details about the fonts and so forth, which are not that important. Finally, the template-derived image whose alt text is "Early 20th-century Palestinian family" needs to be greatly reworded, as it's not obvious from the image that it is early 20th-century, or that it is Palestinian, or that it is a family. Thanks again. Eubulides (talk) 01:51, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for being so patient with your explanations. I tried to do what you have outlined above. The template gave me a bit of trouble, since there is no alt field. I hope I put the info in the right place. If not, let me know and I'll try to find a way to fix it. It may also need a bit of copy edit since I may have gotten carried away. Anyway, thanks again. Tiamuttalk 02:19, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the template is working fine. The alt text for the template's image is a bit long for my taste, but other tastes differ and anyway it's FA quality. I tweaked the other alt text a bit. Thanks again. Eubulides (talk) 03:29, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Tiamuttalk 03:48, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments -
  • Four deadlinks with the link checker tool. Once they are fixed, I'll be able to check them for reliablity.
  • Please spell out abbreviations in the notes. (Specifically, AWG)
Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:10, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Found replacement links for two of the dead links. One of them was a citation for work that turned out not to be authored by Canaan, so I removed it altogether.
Unfortunately, the full text of the Baha' al-Ju'beh source is no longer available online. It is cited on the page of the publisher here, but I cannot access the article itself. A copy of the synopsis or introduction is available for viewing here, but the link to the full text opens up in a unrelated page. I will keep looking, but if I can't find it, should I be looking for another source that supports the info taken from it? Tiamuttalk 16:11, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't have to be online, but yes, you need to source the information from something. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:02, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the information in the Ju'beh source is accurate and sourced to a journal though not available online. Less accurate is the ICS-Jericho source which I am finding substitutes for as we speak (It's mostly used to cite the listing of his medical publications, barring one or two exceptions.) I'm updating everything as we speak and I'll let you know as soon as it is all done, which I hope will be some time tonight. Tiamuttalk 17:43, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Okay then, I think I've sorted things out. You can take a look now. There are only a couple of medical texts lacking a citation right now in the publications section and I'm willing to remove them off course, if none are found. I've also reformatted the cites to have a separate biblio section. Let me know what you think and where we go from here. Thanks for all your feedback. Tiamuttalk 18:44, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:27, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I missed that. Fixed all four. Tiamuttalk 00:12, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Question Should the names of journals be italicized? Tiamuttalk 14:27, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:14, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for clarifying. It's already been done. I just wanted to make sure. Tiamut 09:31, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
  • With regards to reference formatting, there is a separate "issue" parameter in {{cite journal}}. So if you a volume number and issue number, just type something like "volume=8|issue=1" instead of "volume=Vol. 8, no. 1|". Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 15:14, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks for alerting me to that. I'll jump to the article right now and sort any refs missing that parameter. Tiamuttalk 15:30, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Okay I did it. Hope its okay now. Tiamuttalk 15:34, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Made a few more corrections. There is still some inconsistent reference formatting. I'll try to run through the article again later today or tomorrow. Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 18:32, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Thanks for your fixes. I'll try to catch any missing ones myself too. I just don't seem to have your eagle eyes for that type of thing. Thanks again. Tiamuttalk 18:36, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • I've made some more fixes to the page. For consistency, can I recommend that you move the Nashef reference to the bibliography and then use <ref> to cite individual pages? Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 13:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
            • I have no problem doing that. Just wondering though, isn't the bibliography for books only? Nashef's work was published in a journal which is why I formatted it the way I did. If its okay to put journals in the bibliography, then I will go ahead and do that now. Tiamuttalk 13:16, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Overall, a well-written, well sourced, article about an interesting person. A few longer sentences than I am used to, but I do not think they are gramatically incorrect (those that were, I broke into two). I am going through the article making minor spelling and grammar copyedits, but that shouldn't prevent the article from passing. I'd normally wait until I was done, but there seems to be a movement towards quicker closings than in the past, so I did not want this archived before I was done. -- Avi (talk) 01:02, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments and your edits Avi (both now and earlier). I appreciate it. Tiamuttalk 01:58, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support After reading through this article now, with all the tiny mistakes fixed, and most of the MoS issues addressed, I don't see anything else holding back the article's ascension to Featured status. Great job with this article Tiamut. --Al Ameer son (talk) 17:42, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Al Ameer son. Much appreciated. I just caught another inconsistency in the formatting (fixed it). I'm sure there's no such thing as perfection, but I'm happy with the way its shaped up. Great to have new eyes look at it too. Tiamuttalk 19:28, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment West Jerusalem is a disambiguation link. Either delink it or link it to a relevant article. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:14, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Its the information on the dab page itself that is relevant. Strangely, both links lead to Jerusalem (It's a weird dab!). So I'll just delink it now. Tiamuttalk 21:14, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, delinked. Question though, a redink was created out of dismbiguating Musrara to Musrara, Jerusalem. Should I remove it? What's the thinking on redlinks in FAs? Tiamuttalk 17:53, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Image review:
  • File:1900s Jerusalem old city.jpg is listed as being in the public domain because the author has been deceased for at least 70 years, but no author information is provided, and it was not taken at least 120 years ago (which would allow us to presume that the author has been deceased for at least 70 years).
About this picture, I replaced its license with the one for Mandate Palestine/Israel which allows for an image's release 50 years after publication i.e. anything published before 1959. --Al Ameer son (talk) 22:34, 11 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Um, I don't see any change to the file page. Steve Smith (talk) (formerly Sarcasticidealist) 00:25, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, how about now? --Al Ameer son (talk) 02:20, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure how to deal with these issues. I'm not against removing the pics if their presence is a problem to the FAC. Does anyone else know how to correct the problem? Forgive my ignorance. Tiamuttalk 22:38, 11 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
For this picture: File:Costumes, characters, etc. Native jewellery -i.e., jewelry- shop..jpg ..I asked FunkMonk to upload it; (see [2]) ..it is from the Mathson Collection, just go to the Library of Congress search page, then type in Jewellery Jerusalem. This is a "stable" link, I think: [3] -Cheers, Huldra (talk) 05:49, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I added the info provided by Huldra (thanks my dear) to the Glass shop picture. With Al Ameer son's additions to the other one, the only remaining issue is the Khamsa pendant picture. Should we remove it? Tiamuttalk 11:14, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sourcing issues - Wording at the beginning is awkward - "a physician and pioneer in the field of medicine in Palestine, also well-known for".
    • Changed the opening sentence to be less flowery, and moved some of the information down into the pararaphs that follow.
1. Wiki - "pioneer in the field of medicine in Palestine, also well-known for being one of the foremost researchers of Palestinian popular heritage."
1. Source - "pioneers of medicine in Palestine [...] Well-known as one of the foremost researchers of Palestinian popular heritage,"
See above.
2. Wiki - "more than 1,400 amulets and other objects related to popular medicine and folk practices [...]various Palestinian cities and villages, and other Arab countries including Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Yemen"
2. Source - "more than 1,400 amulets, talismans and other objects, all related to popular medicine and folk practices [...] various Palestinian cities and villages; other items came from Arab countries including Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Yemen."
This information is not in the Nashef source. Its from Jubeh. Could you link me to where you got it? Because that link is now dead. In any case, its also been changed.
3. Wiki - "was facilitated by the interviews he conducted with individuals who wore them, though he also drew upon specialized sources and references on sorcery and witchcraft. He deciphered some of the symbols and wrote about the meanings of the shapes, writings, letters and numbers used, publishing one such article on the subject in a journal produced by Antiquities Museum of the American University in Beirut in 1937."
3. Source - "were facilitated by interviews with individuals who actually wrote amulets, as well as specialized sources and references in sorcery and witchcraft [...] decipher some talismanic symbols and learn the meanings of the shapes, writings, letters and numbers used in this realm of popular beliefs and medicine and magic. He wrote an article on the subject which appeared in 1937 in an antiquity studies journal published by Antiquities Museum of the American University in Beirut."
Also not in Nashef, but in Jubeh. I've rewritten it to read: "Interviews he conducted with the individuals who wore talismans constituted an important part of his analysis, which was complemented by consulting specialized sources on sorcery and witchcraft. He wrote about the meanings of the shapes, writings, letters and numbers used in his attempts at deciphering some of the symbols, and published an article on his findings in a journal produced by Antiquities Museum of the American University in Beirut in 1937."
4. Wiki - "Ceramic dishes inscribed with talismans for curing diseases and facilitating childbirth"
4. Source - "Ceramic dishes on which are written talismans for curing diseases and facilitating birth."
Also not in Nashef, but in Jubeh. It's part of a list. Do you have a suggestion on how to make it better?
5. Wiki - "provide valuable information on folk medicine and the manifestations of magic in the popular beliefs and practices of Palestinian and neighboring Arab societies – practices that exist to this day."
5. Source - "provides valuable information on [...] namely folk medicine and the manifestations of magic in the popular beliefs and practices of Palestinian and neighboring Arab societies - practices that exist to this day."
Also not in Nashef, but in Jubeh. I've changed it to read: "The collection is considered a valuable resource for those interested in the manifestations of magic in the popular beliefs underpinning folk medicine practices in Palestinian and Arab societies."
- All taken from this source, used as the first source in the article. Ottava Rima (talk) 14:41, 13 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I've relied heavily on the Nashef source, given that it is one of the only sources to provide biographical information on Canaan. Many of the other sources are focused on his work and its relationship to different academic fields today. But please do note that most of your examples come from another source; that by Jubeh.
Is there a problem with paraphrasing from a source when it is cited? I tend not to stray too far from the original for fear of misrepresenting the sources (when you write in a contentious subject area, as I do, sticking as close as possible to the source is a way to avoid accusations of POV and editorializing). Would you like me to alter the wording further? Tiamuttalk 09:55, 15 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've made some changes as indicated above. You can review them in to to, in this diff. Tiamuttalk 10:59, 15 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'll let others respond to the changes - I wont oppose on these reviews in order to stay neutral about them. I am merely digging through and providing information for reviewers who might not have the time to go through it. Cheers on the changes. Ottava Rima (talk) 01:56, 16 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your comments and happy reviewing and editing. Tiamuttalk 16:47, 16 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and contributed to research that led to the finding of a cure for malaria"—can we do without three of these words?
  • " Other topics covered in his medical studies included leprosy, tuberculosis, and health conditions in Palestine."—So these were a subset of all of the topics he studied? If not, use "comprised" rather than "included".
    • Not sure if those topics cover the totality of his work or not. He wrote many studies that I don't have access to, so I cannot be sure. Tiamuttalk 08:32, 23 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "have served as" could be just "were".
    • It could be, but they continue to serve that function, so I didn't want to use past tense. Tiamuttalk 08:32, 23 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Arrested by the British authorities in 1939 – his family home and clinic in Jerusalem destroyed during the 1948 Palestine war – he nevertheless managed to re-establish his life and career." Is the parenthetical bit between the dashes connected with the main sentence (enough)? It shunts forward and backwards in time.
    • Actually, its pretty much a chronology: 1939, 1948, post-1948. If you think the ideas are not connected, I can rephrase. Tiamuttalk 08:32, 23 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Arab" "Lutheran" Church: "Arab" has occurred before, unlinked. Is there a more specific link target (a section?) to Lutheranism? Otherwise, why link it again (it's linked in the infobox). WP:LINK says to try to avoid juxtaposed links like this.
    • Okay, linked to Arab Lutheran instead, linking Arab just before that, since it is not wikilinked elsewhere. Tiamuttalk 08:32, 23 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Oh, nice one (although that target article desperately needs your attention too!). Tony (talk) 09:38, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • There's so many in need of attention I sometimes feel like I'm going to drown. But thanks for thinking I could help improve it. Tiamuttalk 12:54, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why link "Beirut" when half a second later the "American University of Beirut" is linked (this target starts with a link to the city, yes?).
  • "Pneumonia" is barely worth linking. It's a dictionary word, and it's only his dad who got it.
  • Comma after "X-rays".
  • "The German-Jewish Hospital (Shaare Zedek) also sought out his services as a manager at this time."—So did he agree to work for them?
    • As far as I can understand from the source, yes. Tiamuttalk 08:32, 23 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Much. Much"—Pronounced differently, too.
    • Added ü for pronunciation, and change second Much to "The latter". Tiamuttalk 08:32, 23 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Canaan married Margot Eilender, the daughter of a German importer, in January 1912, and the following year they moved into the family home which they built in the al-Musrarah district of Jerusalem. Three of their four children (Theo, Nada, and Leila) were born in that house." How can we avoid the "in that house" repetition? Possibly: "Canaan married Margot Eilender, the daughter of a German importer in January 1912. The following year they moved into the family home they built in the al-Musrarah district of Jerusalem, where three of their four children (Theo, Nada, and Leila) were born." Neater?
    • Thank you for the alternate suggestion. Replaced it with yours. Tiamuttalk 08:32, 23 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not thrilled with the prose. This is down to halfway through "Medical career". Needs sifting and improving. Tony (talk) 02:42, 23 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'll look through the prose again from there on down with your suggestions in mind. And make some upgrades where necessary. Tiamuttalk 08:32, 23 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I've done a little sifting and improving as suggested here. I found some periods and commas in the wrong place too and fixed those. I hope you find that the changes have improved the prose accordingly. Tiamuttalk 09:40, 23 August 2009 (UTC) PS. There is also this, which I just linked above too. Tiamuttalk 09:47, 23 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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