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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Stede Bonnet

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 04:25, 4 November 2007.

Stede Bonnet edit

I'm nominating this article for featured article because I think it meets the featured article criteria. This article was initially written by PirateDan. I stumbled upon it in July 2007, and I expanded and referenced the article thoroughly. It quickly passed GA, and after a few copyedits and readthroughs, I think it's ready for FA status. Nishkid64 (talk) 05:38, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Question: I'm sure this is easy to solve, the reference link to his birth and death dates only explains the date notation used, there is no reference for the actual dates. P.S. Since the books mentioned in "Further reading" were actually used as sources based on the notes, I've included them in the reference section. - Mgm|(talk) 19:32, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • MacGyverMagic, are you referring to a reference for his December 10, 1718 or a note indicating what his death date would be in New Style dates? Nishkid64 (talk) 22:12, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not talking about the difference in style. I'm just missing a source that confirms that was when he was born and when he died. It's a fact that can be questioned especially with the dating differences in that period, so you need a reference that tells us his birthday and death date. You probably have that reference already, so all you need to do is link it. - Mgm|(talk) 22:27, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oh. It was my intention to leave those references out because they were already covered (see ref 3, 4 and 61) later on in the article. In any case, I'll add a different source in the introduction. Nishkid64 (talk) 23:36, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is nothing wrong with using the same source twice. I mentioned it, because we write in summary style and people who want to know the basics about Stede Bonnet, need to be able to read the lead section without having to hunt through the article for further sources. - Mgm|(talk) 08:16, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • A few more comments:
    • "and engaged in some level of militia service" why not military?
      • REPLY Militia would fit under the larger umbrella term of a military. Militias are armies of ordinary citizens, while militaries are more formal. Nishkid64 (talk) 17:28, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • checkY Sounds fine.
    • Somewhere halfway through their collaboration, Blackbeard acquired Queen Anne's Revenge. What did he sail before meeting Stede. Did Stede give command of his ship willingly?
      • REPLY Not sure what Blackbeard sailed before meeting Bonnet. Charles Johnson's 1724 work A General History of Pyrates says that Blackbeard commanded a ship called the Guiney. Also, from Johnson's work, it seems that he took command of Bonnet's ship after asking Bonnet's crew. Blackbeard felt that Bonnet was not skillful enough to command his ship. Nishkid64 (talk) 18:21, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • checkY Doesn't need to be included, just to satisfy my curiosity and explain the background.
    • "Bonnet accompanied his Blackbeard to South Carolina," Huh? I think 'his' is misplaced here. Either that or you're missing a word.
    • "King's Evidence" Since this is about the US, shouldn't that be State's Evidence?
      • REPLY This all occurred prior to American independence, so the American colonies were under British rule. However, "turned state's evidence" should work just as fine. Nishkid64 (talk) 18:21, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • checkY Not needed to change it. Your explanation makes sense. - Mgm|(talk) 20:22, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • "and modern scholars generally agree that the whole concept of pirates delivering prisoners to a watery grave via a narrow timber road is largely mythical." Unsourced claim.
      • REPLY  Done There's a lot of material that says it's mythical, but it's hard to find one that says "most modern scholars" believe it is mythical. So, I have reworded the sentence and referenced it to a notable pirate historian and scholar. Nishkid64 (talk) 18:21, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • "A plaque regarding Bonnet stands near Bonnet's Creek in Southport, North Carolina, on the Cape Fear River." I think 'regarding' is the wrong word here. Perhaps 'commemorating'.
    • "Bonnet's flag is featured in Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End as Capitaine Chevalle's flag." Unreferenced. - Mgm|(talk) 08:19, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • REPLY I thought this would come up in the FAC. I looked, but I could not find a reference for this statement. It's a known fact, but there seems to be sources for this statement. Nishkid64 (talk) 18:26, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      •  Not done - Mgm|(talk) 20:22, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • One of the guys at Brethren Court had The Pirates Code Guidelines and he told me Stede's flag is mentioned on page 10. I have appropriately sourced that now. I will also have the book myself in a week or so, so I can double-check that. Nishkid64 (talk) 02:31, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: a few bits of prose that could do with looking at:
  • In the lead, Incapacitated to lead his crew - this just doesn't look right to me. Is it grammatically correct? I'm not sure, but it could surely be replaced with something less... odd?
  • REPLY  Done Reworded to "Incapable of leading his crew..." Nishkid64 (talk) 18:38, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pre-criminal life: Allamby died before 1715, while the others survived; perhaps while the children is better?
  • Collaboration with Blackbeard: At Nassau, Bonnet met for the first time Captain Benjamin Hornigold and Edward Teach, better known as Blackbeard, who played a large role in the remainder of Bonnet's life. - "for the first time" is clumsy there. Perhaps something like While at Nassau, Bonnet met Captain Benjamin Hornigold and Edward Teach for the first time; Teach, better known as Blackbeard, played a large role in the remainder of Bonnet's life.?
  • REPLY Done Reworded to your version. Nishkid64 (talk) 18:38, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Same section - Blackbeard and Bonnet were blockading Charleston, and then the next sentence they fled. Why did they flee?
  • Resumption of pirate command - perhaps Resumption of piracy?
  • REPLY Bonnet committed piracy while his ship was under Blackbeard's command. In this section, Bonnet regains command of his pirate ship. Nishkid64 (talk) 18:38, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Same section (actually, I should just go change this myself) - Topsail inlet should be Topsail Inlet (end of 1st para). Changed it myself.
  • Same section, last para - the careening was done by the prisoners; is it relevant that there were several black slaves among the prisoners?
  • wait out the hurricane season in this location -> wait out the hurricane season there
  • Battle of Cape River Fear: in an effort to bracket the Royal James between them - bracket makes between them redundant.
  • Same section - The battle was stalemated for the next five or six hours - urgh, stalemated. I know English allows pretty much anything to be used as a verb, but something like The battle was at a stalemate for... is simple enough, and doesn't induce the cringe!
  • What's a wiff knot? I did a search on WP and google, and couldn't find it anywhere else; can it be explained or something?
  • REPLY  Done Removed the word. I don't know how that got in there (it was probably in the text before I got to it; I assume PirateDan wrote that bit). Nishkid64 (talk) 19:04, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Awww - I wanted to know what one was... I don't know if I can support without this vital information!  :)
  • Escape, recapture... - last para, sentence beginning with But; could just replace the full-stop (period) with a comma.
  • Walking the plank: concept of pirates delivering prisoners to a watery grave via a narrow timber road is largely mythical.; mentioned in previous comments for lack of citation, but in this case cited for flowery language... a narrow timber road?
  • Possessive apostrophes: this one I'm not sure about - what's in the article isn't wrong (Royal James' powder magazine or Tim Powers' On Stranger Tides), but I'm not sure if there's a WP policy on this. Perhaps a MOS guru can answer if it's ok as is, or should be Royal James's etc.
  • WP:MOS#Possessives - It should be apostrophe and an S, unless it would make pronunciation difficult. Hence I've changed the "Royal James'" to "Royal James's. But I think "Powers's" is fiddly to say, so per MOS have left it as "Powers'". Neil ☎ 09:26, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

to It should be James's (fixed that), That's it for now. Carre 10:07, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for the MOS link Neil - I knew there was a reason I used "s's" in my recent FA (even though my preference is without!). The only thing stopping my support is the reason for fleeing after the blockade. Either they just gave up the blockade, in which case they wouldn't have fled, I think; or, the RN or some heavily armed merchantmen turned up and ran (sailed) them off. It just looks a little strange to me to go from blockading to running for no apparent reason. I take it you don't disagree, else you would have said above, so you're just looking for the info or waiting for PirateDan to help out? Carre 09:53, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • REPLY Actually, I missed that comment entirely. However, I have now looked into the matter, and I have removed the word "fled". Essentially, Bonnet and Blackbeard set up the blockade, and then left Charleston to find a place to rest and refit their vessels. They went up the North Carolina coast, and settled at Topsail Inlet. It was there that Blackbeard lost the Queen Anne's Revenge. I hope that clarifies the situation, Carre. Nishkid64 (talk) 14:10, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Yes, that's a lot clearer - I figured it had to be one or the other. Incidentally, looking at Neil's current FAC, there was a comment there about whether "ton" is long ton or short ton - the same applies in this one somewhere, so you may want to consider wikilinking "ton" to "long ton" just to close that possible MoS issue. Carre 14:34, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I've checked all my points. Congratulations! - Mgm|(talk) 08:33, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, although I will be cross if this gets to FA before my piratey FAC which has been up for ages (sad face). I enjoyed this article, no referencing holes. This PD, full account of his trial might be interesting if you wished to expand that section. Neil ☎ 09:26, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's probably worth to add it as an external link. We want to be comprehensive, not complete. - Mgm|(talk) 19:29, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I've come to this rather late (and straight after Jack Sparrow too) so most of the wrinkles seem to have been ironed out. Nice piece, with enough anecdotal detail to bring Bonnet to life off the page. The only bit I really question is he was christened in a parish on 29 July 1688. Why mention a parish? Either specify it or delete it, I'd've thought. --ROGER DAVIES TALK 14:39, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have added the specific name of the parish. Thanks, Nishkid64 (talk) 16:39, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent. --ROGER DAVIES TALK 17:42, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Great article, really interesting! Just two issues:
    • There are some MOS issues with the dashes. Please review WP:DASH and adjust the article accordingly.
    • "Bonnet is alleged to have been one of the few pirates to make his prisoners walk the plank." Who alleges this?--Carabinieri 22:48, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • It's "alleged", because it's usually agreed upon by scholars that walking the plank was a Hollywood myth. Nishkid64 (talk) 00:51, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • But who made the claim that Bonnet did actually make his prisoners walk the plank?--Carabinieri 09:32, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
          • Not sure who first made the claim. It's just been reported in a number of biographies of Bonnet. Nishkid64 (talk) 14:02, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • I also made some changes with dashes, but I'm not sure if I've made all the necessary fixes. Nishkid64 (talk) 00:58, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • The only remaining ones I could see were in the page ranges in references; I've just been through to change all those on your behalf. I also tweaked the Date of Birth/Death a bit to match MOS. Don't see any others. Carre 08:59, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pass & support

  • On the basis that its acceptable based on my very low standards.

"Bonnet set sail for Nassau," change to Nassau, Bahamas Learnedo 00:35, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
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