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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Simonie Michael/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 22 January 2023 [1].

Simonie Michael edit

Nominator(s): Astrophobe (talk) 19:02, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Simonie Michael is a fascinating political first. He was the first Inuk elected as a legislator in Canada. Inuit in Canada have pursued (I think) a completely unique strategy for political inclusion among Indigenous groups in North America, by creating a government of their own and joining it into the structure of the colonial country as a subnational government. Michael was an important figure in this political history. He was a labourer in Iqualuit during WWII, learned English from American military personnel and became a translator, founded a cleaning and construction company, and eventually held basically every elected office in Iqaluit. His major political victory was helping to end the dog tag system in which the Canadian government assigned Inuit numbers instead of names, which Michael viewed as dehumanizing. It took a ton of research across several languages for me to piece his story together, and I've put this article through basically every possible improvement process up to FAC. I really think it will be fun and interesting to review. - Astrophobe (talk) 19:03, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Image review—pass

(t · c) buidhe 18:08, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Steelkamp edit

  • Is is possible to use a picture under the non-free content criteria?
    • The thing that makes this really hard is that there are basically no pictures of him online whatsoever. There is one extremely grainy and low-quality image that appears when you google image search "Simonie Michael" which purports to be from an old CBC article, but even the article as hosted by CBC no longer contains that image, so I don't even know who holds the rights to it. I'm going to reach out to some organizations that might have leads, but I'm not optimistic about getting a picture of Simonie Michael himself any time soon. I have also asked the only Wikipedian I know of with a connection to Nunavut if they might have any ideas or be able to follow any leads on tracking down a better picture, and you can see that conversation here (and permalink). Meanwhile, I've tried to illustrate the article using whatever are the most relevant images on Wiki Commons. Definitely happy to try other options if anyone else has good ideas. - Astrophobe (talk) 00:46, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      • I found a fantastic photo, but I suspect it does not meet the non-free criteria. I will however email the copyright holder now and ask to use it in the article. - Astrophobe (talk) 02:36, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "MLA for Eastern Arctic". I recommend changing to "Member of the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories for Eastern Arctic". This eliminates the unexplained abbreviation and is consistent with articles such as Alexander Cameron Rutherford and Richard Gavin Reid.
  • Could ref 4 have page numbers added?
  • Any details on when he married or who he married?
    • I've looked and looked and I haven't found any online sources with that information. I'm not sure where to look offline or whom to ask. But for now I added a little bit of detail about his marriage and his life immediately after it which I was able to find in one of the pre-exising online sources. I also added a bit of context for his social life at the time, including an important friendship, to hopefully give some of the same sort of context. - Astrophobe (talk) 00:46, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I suggest linking Indigenous people.
  • "and Michael won a place in the 5th Northwest Territories Legislative Council." This part of the sentence is awkward.
  • Indigenous peoples in Canada seems to use Aboriginal capitalised.
  • "but others had been elected before." Could you give a link to the first Aboriginal Canadian elected?
  • "In this inaugural speech in the chamber". Shorten to "In this inaugural speech".
  • "and the lounge ended that policy shortly after Michael's speech." I suggest making this into a separate sentence.
  • "... , who had worked in housing construction and the co-operative housing movement, ..." I don't think that needs to be said, it's clear to people who have read the previous sections of the article. I suggest shortening that sentence to "Michael made housing a major legislative focus."
  • Clyde River is mentioned twice in a row. Is there a way of rewording those sentences so that is avoided?
  • "Given this context, Eva Aariak, while the Premier of Nunavut, described..." This sentence really tripped me up. I suggest changing to "Given this context, Eva Aariak, the Premier of Nunavut, described..."
  • "Peter Kulchyski and Frank James Tester". Who are these people? It would be helpful to describe them as say journalists or historians etc.
  • I'm not sure that map screenshot is useful. It's not in English so only people who speak Inuktitut I assume can read it. It doesn't really illustrate much. I think the article would be better without it.
    • I've replaced it with a screenshot that includes the English translation of that street name, is that better? - Astrophobe (talk) 00:46, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I still feel like that map is just there for the sake of adding images and that it doesn't illustrate much. Steelkamp (talk) 04:48, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    OK, I've removed it. - Astrophobe (talk) 14:50, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's all from me. Ping me when you have addressed all these points. Steelkamp (talk) 14:15, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Steelkamp, thank you very much for the detailed comments! I really appreciate the engagement, and no doubt they have improved the article. I've responded inline. - Astrophobe (talk) 00:46, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The lack of an image is only minor and won't stop me from supporting but I encourage you to find an image that can be used. Steelkamp (talk) 15:05, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments edit

  • Link Northwest Territories Legislative Council on first use in the body as well as the lead
  • "Michael was also a prominent activist in Iqaluit. Michael founded" => "Michael was also a prominent activist in Iqaluit. He founded" (avoids two consecutive sentences with repetitive start)
  • "Michael also was a sculptor" => "Michael was also a sculptor" (sounds more natural to me)
  • Combine the last two extremely short paragraphs in the Employment section into one
  • "Michael was one of two Inuuk chosen in 1953" - suddenly spelt with two Us whereas before it only had one
    • I believe that this usage follows the balance of reliable sources, which to my reading is that in the consensus English usage, "Inuk" is a singular noun, "Inuit" is either an adjective or a noun referring to more than two people, and "Inuuk" should be used to refer to exactly two people (in this case, Simonie Michael and the other Inuk who attended the coronation). As two quick examples I pulled off of Google, see this book and this article. This followed some discussion that CambridgeBayWeather kicked off with these very helpful edits; if I'm remembering correctly I think we developed a mini-consensus on their user page (which I can scrounge up if it's of interest, but we didn't disagree about anything, we were just trying to figure out what the most preferred usages are) and I summarized it on the talk page here (and permalink). - Astrophobe (talk) 00:03, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • His death isn't mentioned at all in the body, is nothing known about it (eg where he died and what he died of)?
    • I added where he died, what day he died on, and how old he was when he died. I unfortunately haven't found a reliable source reporting his cause of death, but I will poke around some more. - Astrophobe (talk) 00:03, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's what I got :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:52, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - thanks for clarifying on Inuk/Inuuk. From all the way over here in the UK it probably isn't a huge surprise that I wasn't clued up on that :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:35, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@ChrisTheDude: Hah, absolutely! I just wanted to really lay out my thinking because I had been wrong about it early in the draft's history and some discussion had taken place since then. Thanks again for the comments! - Astrophobe (talk) 05:05, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Dudley edit

  • "the failings of the disc number system". "failings" seems the wrong word. The main text suggests that he protested that it was dehumanising rather than pointing out technical faults.
  • Are the names of his parents and wife unknown?
    • The name of his step-father is known (and that one is mentioned in the article), but other than that, unfortunately yes. I've searched extensively through all the RS I have about him and have found no trace of them. Sadly (if I may editorialize for a moment) most of the information we have about his family is just people who happened to be mentioned in the few interviews that we have with him or people who knew him, since Simonie Michael's generation was not really engaged in constructing a written record of their own. - Astrophobe (talk) 22:33, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Inuk in Iqaluit who could translate between Inuktitut and English" You say this twice in slightly different ways. Maybe merge them.
  • "he also married his wife" sounds odd. Maybe "he got married"
  • You use the word "also" eleven times. Most of them are better deleted.
  • "his sculptures have been housed in the University of Lethbridge Art Gallery". Does "have been" mean no longer? Were they sold off?
    • I used that cautious wording because Katlivik's website is, as I interpret it, ambiguous on this front, and I cannot find clear records of when they entered or exited the university's collections. If you think other wording would be more accurate I am happy to change it. - Astrophobe (talk) 22:33, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In the 1940s, the Government of Canada had determined that it was unable to track Inuit using their traditional names," I would take "determined" to mean discovered - implying a reasonable decision. Perhaps "decided".
  • "Stu Hodgson, the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories". You give his title twice.
  • "Michael was succeeded by Bryan Pearson as the representative for the Eastern Arctic district in 1970". Did he retire or was he defeated?
    • I have searched extensively and I cannot find an online source that gives electoral history for local or regional elections in the Northwest Territories as far back as 1970, or any mention of him contesting this election. This isn't a problem special to Simonie Michael; the election data from that time is very sparse overall. I would guess that he did not contest it and simply retired, since the sources don't mention any election, but I think the definitive answer to this might require a trip to the archives in Ottawa. If anyone has a lead I would be very glad to fill this detail in, here and at Eastern Arctic. Maybe it can be handled with wording to the effect that sources do not record him contesting the election? - Astrophobe (talk) 22:33, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • It is not important for this article, but have you tried historic newspaper archives? Dudley Miles (talk) 23:33, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He is the namesake of two roads in Apex". Namesake means by chance. If the roads were named after him you should say so.
  • Is he not recorded as doing anything after 1970? Is it known why he retired from public life so young? Dudley Miles (talk) 17:09, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • He is not, so far as I know, although we know he made some of his sculptures then, and he gave some interviews. But I think it is not unusual for his doings as a private citizen not to have been written down; he was a member of a society without an extensive cultural history of written records. - Astrophobe (talk) 22:33, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support and two further comments. Looks fine now. Also thanks to SchroCat for kind words. Dudley Miles (talk) 23:33, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you very much for the careful and detailed comments! - Astrophobe (talk) 23:27, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

SC edit

Putting down a marker for later. I'll wait until Dudley has finished - he's an excellent reviewer, so there's no point in me treading on his toes while he's working on it. - SchroCat (talk) 15:42, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lead
  • I left details above of an image with attribution that you can use in the IB
    • I have to admit I'm very squirrely about image policy because I don't feel that I understand the relevant laws/rules and I'm afraid of doing the wrong thing. I know this isn't really your role as an FA reviewer but do you happen to know where in the image upload guides I might be able to find instructions for the proper uploading of a copyrighted figure under fair use (which I assume is the situation here)? If you would prefer that I dig more on my own or ask for help elsewhere, please let me know. - Astrophobe (talk) 23:35, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Early life
  • Link to Iqaluit on first mention, not second
  • "other sources mention other translators" maybe "some sources" to avoid the double "other"?
  • "he got married": this always jars a bit without a something extra "He got married in March" or similar. "He was married" is a smoother alternative, although I don't push the point, if this is acceptable in CanEng
Legislative career
  • No action needed, but just a comment that I'd never heard of the 'disc number' system – fascinating and rather awful.
    • It really is! Thanks for mentioning that. I also hadn't heard of it before I started reading about Simonie Michael, and it's a big part of what made me want to create good, free, online encyclopedia entry about him. - Astrophobe (talk) 23:35, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Subsequent life
  • It's a bit of an abrupt turn from leaving government in 1970 to his death in 2008. I see that you have answered that above, but it’s a shame we can't even add a line about him sculpting and doing interviews, but if there isn't anything available, then so be it.
    • Added. I had actually drafted a sentence along these lines last night, inspired by Dudley Miles's comments, but a guest suddenly arrived at my house. Now it's in there! - Astrophobe (talk) 23:35, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Very little left for me to comment on, but an interesting and well-written piece. - SchroCat (talk) 10:43, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • OK, I've added the image for you (for future reference, the [system] is easy to use, but also has links to a help facility, if you have questions about the copyright. Uploading one image of someone no longer alive to use at the top of their own article is considered fair use though.
    • Oh excellent, thank you very much, this is good to know! - Astrophobe (talk) 04:35, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support on prose, etc - I have no knowledge of the subject matter, so cannot comment on the range or extent of sources, etc. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 09:08, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source review edit

Footnote numbers refer to this version.

  • All your book citations have a publisher location parameter except FN 1. FAC requires consistency; do you have access to the book to add a location?
  • FN 7 uses publisher instead of work, unlike all your other uses of cite news; again this should be consistent.
    • Changed publisher parameter to work parameter, dropped website parameter to avoid a conflict. - Astrophobe (talk) 18:28, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I see you make quite a bit of use of the Qikiqtani Truth Commission report. I see from this page that it's a creation of the Qikiqtani Inuit Association, in reaction to an RCMP report that they disagreed with. Is this generally considered a neutral source? I can see you're using it for some uncontroversial facts such as names, and Michael's own recollection of mistreatment; those are fine. How about "the policy of segregation enforced by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in Iqaluit during the 1940s and into the 1950s", for which this is the only source? Would modern Canadian historians consider the QTC an unbiased source to support the statement that there was a policy of segregration. For example, I'm wondering if another source might consider that there was de facto segregation but no explicit policy, or that the policy was not official and this made some difference in some way. You also use this source to support some statements in the "Housing" section; again, are these controversial? I have no reason to believe the statements are wrong, but I'd like to know the source is considered to be neutral by historians. If it isn't we should have additional sourcing for those statements.
    • I've softened it to "racial separation" and added some supporting citations. My reading of the available sources is that this should not be a controversial claim. The RCMP functioned as the administrative arm of the Canadian government in Frobisher Bay in the 1940s and 1950s, and they were completely unashamed (in fact, openly proud and defensive) about a policy of keeping white people and Inuit apart, at least until the rise of an assimilationist policy in the late 1950s and the 1960s. A 1950s RCMP commissioner of the area declared that "where possible Inuit should be kept separated from the whites" and even enforced a rule that groups of Inuit should not cluster within 20 miles of white housing developments, ideas that he (and others) quite openly advocated for and defended as more just than the assimilationist alternative. - Astrophobe (talk) 18:28, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      The link for Test doesn't work for me -- I get "DOI not found". Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:36, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      Sorry, I forgot to drop the doi parameter. The title shouldn't have been linked, just the jstor ID. It should work now. - Astrophobe (talk) 03:37, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN 3 is a broken link and there is no archive link.
  • Not a source issue, but I see you use spaced em dashes. Per MOS:DASH we have to use either spaced en dashes or unspaced em dashes.

Since this is your first FAC, the source review includes a spotcheck for source-text integrity.

  • FN 11 cites "Michael was also a sculptor, producing numerous carvings of animals." I don't think this supports "numerous"; only one is shown on that page, and looking through the rest of that website I can only find evidence of two more animals, plus five more unspecified artworks.
  • FN 22 cites "Michael's speech about the disc number system to the territorial council has been identified as the trigger that led to the system's end". Verified.
  • FN 12 cites "After leaving government, Michael made several small sculptures of animals": I don't see support for "after leaving government" in the source. The lots were sold after he left government, but it doesn't say he made them late in life.
  • FN 3 cites "As an example he mentioned the Arctic Circle Club lounge, in which Inuit were not permitted to drink." The link is broken; I'll check this once that's fixed.
    • Now has archive URL. The quote: "Noting that the council had recently passed a motion outlawing any form of discrimination, he complained that Eskimos weren't allowed to drink in the Arctic Circle Club lounge, a private bar in Resolute Bay. The council saw the point. Eskimos were admitted to the lounge within a week." - Astrophobe (talk) 18:28, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN 9 cites "As a signal of his advocacy for Inuit issues, Michael's inaugural speech to the Legislative Assembly lasted 90 minutes and was given in Inuktitut". Page range should be 116-117, not just 117. And although I can see it's plausible that it was a signal of his advocacy, the source says nothing about his reasons for giving the speeech in Inuktitut.
    • As -> In, to avoid ascribing any motivation. - Astrophobe (talk) 18:28, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      I think this is still more than is in the source. I looked in Google Books and quickly found a slightly different take from Pamela Stern's Historical Dictionary of the Inuit: he did it "in order to bring the Inuit language to the body governing Inuit life" (p.126). I think Stern would do, with a slight change to the article text, or you might be able to find other sources. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:36, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      I've spent a few minutes trying to make sure I understand these comments, including a break to go stir some ramen and ponder alternative phrasings, and I think I still do not feel confident that I can see how to edit it in a way that is clearly both contributing value to the article and supported by the sources. Personally I don't remember why I wrote that phrase and I don't think it's actually doing anything very important, so I've taken the simplest approach and just dropped the text in question. - Astrophobe (talk) 03:37, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The spotcheck reveals some minor inaccuracies that should be easy to fix. Can you check the other sources for the same sort of issue? Once you've done that I'll do another spotcheck. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:51, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you Mike Christie for the careful comments. I believe all changes have been made and have responded inline. - Astrophobe (talk) 18:28, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Second pass on spotcheck, since some tweaks were necessary on the first pass. Footnote numbers now refer to this version. I found one minor issue (FN 32 below) so I did ten spotchecks this time.

  • FN 11 cites "Before his election to the Northwest Territories Legislative Council at the age of 33, Michael worked as a carpenter". Verified.
  • FN 21 cites "Though Michael was Canada's first elected Inuit legislator, he was its second Inuit legislator overall, since Abe Okpik had been appointed to the Northwest Territories Legislative Council in 1965." Verified.
  • FN 23 cites "Although this issue had been raised previously by Abe Okpik in the Legislative Assembly and was becoming increasingly salient". Verified; I had to think about "increasingly salient" but I think the sequence of events justifies it.
  • FN 9 cites 'Given this context, Eva Aariak, the Premier of Nunavut, described Michael's election as "an important step forward in the evolution of our territory and its democratic institutions."' Verified.
  • FN 32 cites "In 2020, a boat that was owned by Michael was preserved at Apex beach". I don't think we can say it "was" preserved; the source is an article arguing that it should be preserved. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:52, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN 17 cites "had left three openings for one-year terms to the council without any incumbents." Verified.
  • FN 6 cites "The military airfield construction would lead to the development of the city of Iqaluit". I don't have access to this; can you quote the supporting text?
    • Here is a free version. See e.g. the start of the abstract: Iqaluit is unique among Canadian Arctic communities in that it originated not from a commercial venture, such as mining or the fur trade, or as a government administrative centre, but as a Second World War military airfield. - Astrophobe (talk) 17:04, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN 11 cites "He founded a housing co-operative that built 15 new houses in Iqaluit". Verified, but should be pp. 116-117, not 116.
  • FN 1 cites "He also recalled that when Inuit residents were relocated to a nearby island to make space for the military construction projects, no housing was provided for them, and no means of transportation were given for them to travel between the island and the mainland". Can you quote the supporting text?
    • This was reworded in response to a previous FA comment, and now that I look at it the contents of what he said doesn't include the housing part, so I removed it. The text is here and the relevant portion is Then we started hearing about the coming work force that were not white men! We were told that they would arrive from down south! They totalled about 200, but we didn't call them white, we called them Puatiki [Black] . . . When they moved us to the Island, we started having major problems and we started to brainstorm as to what we should do . . . We said, "This is impossible . . ."" There was no water and no harbour for our boats. They moved us there with no mode of transportation to get back and forth to work to the main land. When we started having these major problems, we started discussing what we should do! - Astrophobe (talk) 17:04, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN 16 cites "Michael was encouraged to run in the 1966 by-election to the Northwest Territories Legislative Council by Stu Hodgson, later the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories". Can you quote the supporting text?
    • I borrowed this book from the library in the city I used to live in. I cannot find an online copy, and a physical copy costs more than $100. I have requested an Inter-Library Loan for the book to be delivered to a building in the university that I now work at, but apparently it may actually have to travel from Finland to North America, so I suspect the request will be denied, and will certainly not happen soon. However, I would oppose changing the citation, because I believe that high-quality offline sources are exactly the sort of texts that we want to use when we build a free online encyclopedia, even (probably especially) if they are very rare and hard to access. Meanwhile, here is what I am able to find online: evidence that Simonie Michael is discussed extensively on the cited page. - Astrophobe (talk) 17:04, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • I've also asked a friend who still lives in the city I used to live in to borrow the book and send me a photo of the relevant page if he gets the chance. - Astrophobe (talk) 17:09, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      That worked -- much faster than expected, I've acquired a photo of the relevant page. It quotes a correspondence where Michael reaches out to Hodgson and mentions that he "kindly suggested that I write to you" to discuss funding and campaign logistics if he decided to run for office. - Astrophobe (talk) 17:24, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:52, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pass source review and spotcheck. The goal of a spotcheck is to make sure there are no problems with source-text integrity. I've found several minor issues, all of which have been fixed, and though there were more issues than I'd like to see, none were serious enough to make me think the article has a real problem. I think this is on the right side of the line. Re the offline source, I'll AGF, but if you do get a copy of the text to look at again please check it for yourself. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:18, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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