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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Saxaul Sparrow/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Karanacs 03:39, 4 September 2010 [1].

Saxaul Sparrow edit

Saxaul Sparrow (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): —innotata 19:52, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This article appears to meet the featured article criteria: Perhaps the text could be improved a bit, but I've decided that more improvements can be best addressed here now—comments on writing would be especially appreciated. This is a comprehensive account of its subject, though it probably could have a bit more if I knew Russian and could get at certain works in that language. —innotata 19:52, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Image Review

  • Comment -"It forages in trees and on the ground, feeding mostly on seeds, but also eating insects in the nest and while breeding. While it is not breeding it forms wandering flocks, but it is less social than other sparrows while breeding, often nesting in isolated pairs." I think something is wrong here.P. S. Burton (talk) 01:14, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • To add to that, I think that much of the introduction should be reworded. Snowman (talk) 20:50, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • I've made one dig at the lead, and will try to continue to improve it when I get time. Any thoughts on how it could be reworded? —innotata 21:45, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments - sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:27, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - This is mostly personal preference, but it may be useful to mention the bird's distribution in the first paragraph. —outoffocus 21:00, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Makes sense here. Added. —innotata 21:45, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Support - all my issues addressed - really good read, just a few things. Canada Hky (talk) 03:05, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • In the "behaviour" section "It is shy in many areas, and spends much time hidden in foliage, but it is reported to be confiding in Mongolia." --> is there a better word than "confiding" in this sentence? As is, I don't really understand what it is trying to say.
      • A small group of breeding birds in Mongolia were not shy, coming close to humans. Altered a bit.
    • Possibly a dumb question, but if Stepanyan is not yet notable enough for an article (presumably), does he really need to be WL'd?
  • Comment Support (moral or otherwise) Nothing jumps out at me WRT prose or comprehensiveness. I am a wikiproject birds editor but I'll be as impartial as possible Some minor style issues (I'd maybe not split distribution and habitat in separate sections as it leads to some repetition and choppiness, and generally put taxonomy before description but I wouldn't hold it as a deal-breaker) :) Jotting notes below: Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:11, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Females have less bold plumage.. - sounds odd to me, I was thinking of something like "more subdued plumage" (i.e. frame as positive not a negative comparative) - but not a deal-breaker.
I'm not sure this should be changed. Neither is a very good wording, but less bold seems somewhat clearer in the current context. —innotata 21:22, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments/questions/suggestions by Sasata (talk) 05:24, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • "…ranging from dull grey or sandy brown" change "or" to "to"
Done. —innotata 15:52, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Females have less bold plumage and bills" bold in what way? Color? Shape?
Done, I think. —innotata 15:52, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • suggest piping disjunct to disjunct distribution, and probably at its occurrence later in the Taxonomy section
Done. —innotata 15:52, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "A bird of deserts, the Saxaul Sparrow favours areas with shrubs such as the saxaul, near rivers and oases." Is there a link that could be used here for saxual? This sentence slightly confused me until I realized with surety later in the article that saxual (lower case s) is also the name of a plant.
Jimfbleak linked to Haloxylon, though it is only certain species of that genus (probably more than the three mentioned in the current articles on the genus). —innotata 16:47, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "It feeds mostly on seeds, as well as insects while breeding and in the nest." Potentially confusing construction… it eats seeds and insects it finds while breeding in its nest? Is the bird breeding or the insect breeding? Will it eat an insect in its nest if the insect in not breeding? See what I mean?
I meant as a nestling, which I've changed this to in the lead; there is not enough known to answer your questions. —innotata 16:47, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "While it is not breeding it forms wandering flocks" Possible to replace "While it is" with the simpler "When"; another instance in the Behaviour section
Done. —innotata 16:15, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The tail is short at 6.3–6.95 cm" looks funny to give differing sig figs in the range… is this how the source gives the values?
The source gives values for these measurements in millimetres. —innotata 17:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "pinkish brown" -> needs hyphen
What's the problem here? —innotata 16:15, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
n/m, the compound modifier follows the subject and so does not need the hyphen to reduce umambiguity. Sasata (talk) 02:43, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Like all other sparrows, it flies swiftly and often at height." High or low heights?
What do you mean? —innotata 15:52, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is probably just a regional difference in English, but I don't recall having heard the expression "at height" used in this way. I not clear what meaning the phrase conveys... does the bird fly at high heights? Sasata (talk) 02:43, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Whatever is a high height or a low height? I used "flies high", but Casliber changed this, with the editsum "avoid making it sound like it is stoned when flying...." —innotata 15:32, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think this is probably a regional difference in English. Regardless, "at height" makes sense to me, but "at high heights" sounds absurd and redundant. —innotata 17:34, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • link coverts, buff, crown, classified
I thought these were all linked at the first mention. —innotata 15:52, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • what is the current taxonomical status of Zarudny's Ammopasser?
Again I don't know what you mean. It is a valid name, as far as I know. —innotata 16:15, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Rereading the sentence, I think the problem is that in "The Saxaul Sparrow usually is classified in the genus Passer with the House Sparrow and around twenty other species,[17] although a genus Ammopasser was created for this species by Nikolai Zarudny in 1890." the subject of "created for this species" in somewhat ambiguous, and I mistakenly assumed that Saxaul Sparrow was the subject. Sasata (talk) 02:43, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The Saxaul Sparrow was the subject; this has been clarified by Ucucha. —innotata 15:32, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • there's three repetitive uses of "suggest" or variations thereof in close succession in the second paragraph of Taxonomy; similarly, three consecutive sentences in the final paragraph being with "It".
  • perhaps link threatened
Not sure that's the best page to link to. Aren't conservation status, habitat destruction, etc. enough?
  • how about using the common name ladybug and linking to Coccinellidae?
Not all members of Coccinellidae are ladybugs; the article if anything uses British English. —innotata 16:15, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "… due to its dry habitat and its choices of nesting locations, holes in trees and earth banks." Potential ambiguity: is this a (non-serial comma) list, or are "holes in trees and earth banks" its chooses for nesting locations? If the latter, perhaps an emdash might be more appropriate than a comma after "locations".
I think that dashes should only be used for serious emphasis or drama, and hence should be absolutely minimised on Wikipedia (I also use commas too much, in a rather Victorian manner, in any context), but I can't think of anything better (this bit of text has been very hard to write). —innotata 16:15, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and nests have been recorded on the nests of birds of prey" does this mean the sparrow builds another nest on top of the bird of prey nest, or does it simply reuse the bird of prey nest?
It presumably builds its nest on the side of an actively used nest; I think you probably can find images of this for other species, but sources cited say "in" or "on" "the nests of birds of prey". —innotata 16:15, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • what is an ovular form? How about a "white ground color"?
The section eggs has been rewritten. —innotata 17:34, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "yellowish brown" -> hyphen
  • Thinking about info I've sometimes seen in other birds articles (and realizing that the answer may well be "unknown" to most/all):
  • how long for incubation? to fledge? Any info on development of young birds? Are they born blind and naked, when do they develop feathers, etc.
  • any data on lifespan? Parasites? Predators?
  • any observations on how it gets along with other birds with which it co-occurs?
  • I've included everything I can find on this. Thanks for commenting; I'll continue to make replies and changes, after your long set of comments. —innotata 15:52, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments I've linked the saxual plant. Stepanyan is indubitably notable, why not do a short stub yourself, or alternatively tweak to link to the existing Conspectus article instead? No real concerns, but I'd like to see replies to Sasata before supporting Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:25, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Stepanyan described the subspecies a long time before he wrote the Conspectus. I don't have enough information to write a biography; Shyamal may. By the way, I understand you and Sasata mean "saxaul" by "saxual". If so, I can see why Drmies made the redirect sexual sparrow. Thanks for commenting. —innotata 15:52, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No further concerns, changed to support above Jimfbleak - talk to me? 10:39, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Shyamal has made an article at L. S. Stepanyan. —innotata 17:43, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support, with a few small comments:

  • Like Sasata, I'm not quite sure what "at height" means.
  • I can't find the "similar song" in the lead back in the body.

Ucucha 21:00, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for commenting and making small edits. I've removed the "similar" from the lead. —innotata 17:35, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, with just one comment:
    • Any reason why fractions are used for imperial (i.e, 5 ½ inches) instead of decimals like everything else? For me, 5.5 inches is much easier to read than the tiny fraction symbol.
  • I'm not particularly experienced with animal articles, but this one certainly seems to be up to the standard of Thomasomys ucucha, a recently promoted FA I helped to review. Nice work! Parsecboy (talk) 18:31, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'm one of many, if not most, such people who think in fractions of Old English units, and other articles, such as User:Casliber's on birds, also do this. Thanks for commenting. —innotata 21:22, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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