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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Louis Rwagasore/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Buidhe via FACBot (talk) 21 January 2022 [1].

Louis Rwagasore edit

Nominator(s): Indy beetle (talk) 19:12, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Louis Rwagasore, the second Prime Minister of Burundi and a national hero, usually viewed as its most preeminent independence activist, though he was assassinated before the country became sovereign from Belgian colonial rule. A son of the Burundian king, he served as prime minister for only a few weeks in 1961 until he was shot dead by political rivals with the probable backing of the Belgian colonial administration. If it passes to Featured Article status, it would be the first article on any Burundian topic on English Wikipedia to do so (to my knowledge). It passed its Good Article nomination in October (link), and I have finished touching it up with a ground-breaking book on his murder that was released a few months ago. -Indy beetle (talk) 19:12, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image review—pass

Drive-by comment from Brigade Piron Indy Beetle has done a terrific job here with very limited source material. I do wonder, though, whether it would be worth including this book which might well be valuable as a rare recent academic text covering the subject? Have you been able to consult a copy, @Indy beetle:? —Brigade Piron (talk) 20:30, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Brigade Piron: Yes, my university gives me online access. You will see that I have cited it twice in this article. Russell does not write very much about Rwagasore in ways that other sources do not cover. His analysis of the lead up to independence is mostly a focus on grassroots violence and local politics (bourgmestres and the like). -Indy beetle (talk) 20:41, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for this. I'm not quite sure how I missed the citations, but thanks for pointing it out. I have nothing to add and certainly support its FA status. —Brigade Piron (talk) 21:08, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by JBchrch edit

Suggestions for improvement edit
  • Born to the Ganwa family of Burundian Mwami Mwambutsa IV. Without following the wikilinks, it’s not clear 1. whether Ganwa is a name, a function or caste, 2. what Mwami is and 3. who was Mwambutsa IV and what function he had. Perhaps the problem is very shallow and just requires slight a rewording of the sentence.
    • Put in parentheses that Mwami means "king", but other than that I'd rather not delve too much into Rwagasore's origins in the lede. Ganwa is explained in the "Early life" section.
  • Footnote g should be moved to the infobox, to be displayed just after "Crown Prince of Burundi".
    • Done.
  • in Gitega, Ruanda-Urundi, to Mwami (king). I would add more detail about what Mwami was king of.
  • CCB and foundation of UPRONA: Do we have information about what kind of goods the traders were producing?
    • Sources are not clear about this, though probably most of it was farm produce.
  • building his personal support among Swahili traders of Usumbura Do we have information about why Swahilis specifically?
    • Almost certainly because they had lots of money and connections relative to other Burundians, but I'm having trouble locating a source which specifically says this.
  • Does footnote b need to be a footnote? Can it not be in the main text?
    • Done.
  • He then requested credit for the cooperatives from the Conseil Supérieur du Pays I think we need to have some information – perhaps two or three words – in the main text about what this institution was. With the following sentence, you get the impression that "Belgian administration" and "Conseil supérieur du Pays" may be synonyms or that the latter may be part of the Belgian colonial institutions.
    • To be clear, the Conseil supérieur du Pays was established by the Belgians and ultimately answered to them (their decisions were not always final), but it was staffed by Burundians. I've decided to incorporate the explanatory footnote into the text to clarify what it was.
  • intervened to take over the CCB Do we have more information about what "take over" actually means? If so, the use of "take over" in the lead should also be changed
    • The sources are not clear about this. All we know is that it was ultimately "merged" (term Weinstein uses) with an administration cooperative.
  • administration cooperative. Can we briefly explain what that is?
    • Weinstein and other sources are not clear about what this was. Presumably it was just another economic cooperative that was directly overseen by the Belgian administration.
  • I would lift "although differ on the circumstances of UPRONA's founding and Rwagasore's role in it" from the footnote to the main text.
    • Done.
  • Bezi lineage of Ganwa Maybe we need some sort of designation for the Ganwa here. For instance, "the Ganwa princely group’s Bezi lineage"?
    • Ganwa is already explained in the Early life section (where Bezi is first mentioned).
  • this dynamic Do we have a better word than "dynamic"?
    • Changed to "alignment".
  • Consider moving footnote f in the main text, as it is a very interesting piece of information.
    • Done.
  • He believed that only a constitutional monarchy could maintain legitimacy and that it should yield power to a civilian government Seems like this sentence is internally contradicting? It can’t be both, right?
    • My word choice was poor; revised to say He believed that only a constitutional monarchy could maintain legitimacy and that the Mwami should cede most authority to a civilian government.
  • To protest colonial rule, Rwagasore encouraged boycotts Tell me if I have missed something but this is the first mention of Rwagasore’s anti-colonial activities. If that is the case, perhaps a broader introductory sentence about him opposing colonialism would make the transition smoother.
    • Added that he favoured "immediate independence". Unlike many other African independence leaders, details on Rwagasore's "anti-colonial activities" are not very forthcoming.
  • it liberalised the political sphere This is pretty vague and I think we can do better with the sourcing: cette commission fit libérer ou rentrer d’exil les militants indépendantistes et réhabilita Rwagasore dans ses droits politiques
    • Revised to The UN created a Commission for Ruanda-Urundi which liberalised the political sphere and restored Rwagosore's political rights.
  • Belgian Resident Don’t we have a better place to wikilink this? For instance Ruanda-Urundi § Colonial governors?
    • Not so - These were different positions. The governor oversaw all of Ruanda and Urundi, while each of those territories had a resident underneath him. -Indy beetle (talk) 15:08, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes but the section explains what a résident is. Not a big deal though. JBchrch talk 16:00, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I've added information to the List of residents which briefly explains the role of the office.
  • Belgian Foreign Minister -> Belgian foreign minister per MOS:JOBTITLES
    • I mean, some of that guidance seems contradictory; I meant it as a title. I could formalise it to "Belgian Minister of Foreign Affairs".
  • Historian Ludo De Witte De Witte is a sociologist per the most reliable sources I could find (see below).
    • See my response below.
  • A separate investigation conducted by the Brussels Public Prosecutor's Office When did that take place?
    • Noted after the initial Burundian proceedings ended i.e. after Kageorgis' appeal in the spring of 1962 had failed but before he was executed.
  • In 1972, the Burundian government issued a document It looks to me like this document is more accurately labeled a "report".
    • Technically that pamphlet of lies and whataboutism was a "white book" (per Weinstein), but "report" sounds fine to me. Changed.
  • Muhirwa succeeded Rwagasore as Prime Minister of Burundi I would relink André Muhirwa here
    • He's already linked thrice in the article; once in the infobox, again at first textual mention, and at the bottom in the PMs of Burundi template.
  • There is a strong belief among some Burundians I would remove the "strong" here, since the belief is only held by "some" Burudians. It kind of adds undue weight to a belief that – per the article – is not widely shared.
    • Done.
On Ludo de Witte edit

Sources consulted:

  • Fetter, Bruce (2002). "WHO MURDERED LUMUMBA? The Assassination of Lumumba. By LUDO DE WITTE. London: Verso, 2001. Pp. xxxii+224. £19 (ISBN 1-85984-618-1)". The Journal of African History. 43 (2): 313–376. doi:10.1017/S0021853702528292. ISSN 0021-8537.
  • Urquart, Brian (October 4, 2001). "The Tragedy of Lumumba". The New York Review of Books. Retrieved 10 January 2022.
  • De Witte, Ludo (2017). "The suppression of the Congo rebellions and the rise of Mobutu, 1963–5". The International History Review. 39 (1): 107–125. doi:10.1080/07075332.2016.1189951. ISSN 0707-5332.
  • "Ludo De Witte, le chercheur qui fait bouger les lignes en Belgique". RFI (in French). 2022-01-09. Retrieved 2022-01-10.
  • "New evidence of Belgian complicity in 1961 killing of Burundian PM". the Guardian. 2022-01-05. Retrieved 2022-01-10.
  • Gouverneur, Cédric (2022-01-01). "Meurtre au Burundi. La Belgique et l'assassinat de Rwagasore". Le Monde diplomatique (in French). Retrieved 2022-01-10.
  • "«Meurtre au Burundi», l'implacable enquête de Ludo De Witte". Le Soir (in French). 2021-09-06. Retrieved 2022-01-10.

Since much of the article is sourced to works by Ludo de Witte, I investigated a little bit on his reliability. He is not a professional historian, but a sociologist, alternatively a "writer" or an "independent researcher". However, his works have been positively reviewed and he seems to have a good reputation as a historical researcher. He has a left-wing/anti-Occident bias (per Urquart 2001, Fetter 2002, the Verso publishing house, the Revue Toudi and the recent news articles) but I don't see that affecting the article too much. The only bit I'm on the fence about is the sentence beginning with De Witte surmised, which may be UNDUE considering his leanings. JBchrch talk 13:38, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    • De Witte is definitely something of a Marxist (or at least Marx inspired). I'm familiar with his work since doing a lot of research on Lumumba, which he gained international respect for. Most of the criticisms of his Lumumba work had more to do with style than substance and some of his conterfactual predictions due to his political sympathies, but the fact-based part of his work is well acclaimed. Urquhart particularly disliked De Witte, though that was almost certainly in-part fueled by De Witte's rather uncharitable treatment of the UN in his book on Lumumba, and Urquhart worked for the UN in the Congo in the 1960s. I dubbed De Witte "historian" here because some sources call him that ([2] [3] [4] [5]). This source calls him both a historian and sociologist. I am aware that his background is in sociology. Of all the labels normally applied to academic specialists, "historian" gets thrown around the easiest (e.g. even if the person's background is in another field). I could go either way as far as labeling De Witte goes. I want to leave the quote in, since it seems a perfectly reasonable assumption to make (not exactly Marxist-tinged crazy), it's attributed in text, and removing it would beg the question why the aid was never suspended.
    • @JBchrch: I've responded to your comments. Have a look. -Indy beetle (talk) 05:22, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thanks Indy beetle. I have no further comments and am already supporting. That was very interesting! You can ping me again if you have trouble getting a source check. JBchrch talk 10:01, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by Kaiser matias edit

Focusing on content of the article, and not wording:

  • I feel the note about his modern reputation would be better served at the end of the lead, and not the beginning. It feels to me like it would flow better that way, as it caps his legacy.
    • Moved.
  • It's mentioned that Rwagasore is the eldest son, but there's no mention of siblings. Is that information available? Even so, it would be good to note he is the eldest son in the "Early life" section, as it's missing there. Indeed later on another son of Mwambista, Charles Ndizeye, is noted; Charles' own article says they were half-siblings, and that Charles had two other half-sisters, but without a citation.
    • Err, the Early Life section did indeed mention that Rwagasore was the Mwami's eldest son. Although, I have now removed that line and replaced it with more detail on his family situation. Rwagasore was born to the Mwami and his first wife, followed by two daughters. The Mwami then divorced, remarried, and had Charles. This should make it clear that Rwagasore was the first-born.
  • Maybe provide a translation of "Conseil Supérieur du Pays", either in parenthesis or in the note?
    • Added in the note.
  • " In an attempt to distract Rwagasore from politics, the Belgian administration designated him head of the Butanyerera chiefdom (an area in Ngozi Province) in February 1959." Did this appointment come with any responsibility? If so it would be good to note that somewhat, as it seems ignored otherwise and doesn't seem to have impacted Rwagasore's actions.
    • Added that he resigned from the chiefdom to focus on politics (the Belgians' plan didn't work). Chiefdoms were formal parts of the Belgian administration in Burundi until 1960, and chiefs were accorded formal responsibilities (how powerful they were allowed to be was somewhat determined by the attitude of the Belgians towards them, see Pierre Baranyanka for an example of a powerful Burundian chief). Rwagasore was obviously uninterested in running a form of administrative unit that was clearly on its way out the door, and sources don't mention anything of note he did while he technically held the position.
  • "In 1961 the Belgian administration officially renamed Ruanda-Urundi as Rwanda-Burundi." Is there a reason for this name-change, and would it be relevant to include here?
    • I included it because the article changes from using "Urundi" to "Burundi" as with the times. It seemed poor for comprehension to leave that unexplained.
  • Is there anything notable here about so many Greek nationals taking part in the assassination? That seems like something to address, if possible.
    • The sources are keen to mention it (perhaps because their names are obviously neither Burundian nor Belgian), but there appears to be no special "Greek role". Greeks had been in this part of Africa for several decades, mostly working as traders and merchants. The article notes that the probable connection between Kageorgis, Iatrou, and the PDC leaders was money and business, which falls in line with that understanding.
  • For the non-English sources, would it not be prudent to include English translations?
    • Done.
  • Lastly, is there a reason the Poppe work is not cited here?
    • I have not viewed Poppe's 2011/2012 book. I did cite his 2015 Afrika Focus article here for the basic circumstances of the assassination, which I presume, since it's newer, would've included any particularly interesting discoveries he would've made in the book. De Witte reviews Poppe's work in both his 2013 La Revue Toudi article (cited here also) and in his 2021 book on the assassination released just a few months ago (and also cited in this article). De Witte is quite critical on the depth of Poppe's work, writing in the Revue Toudi piece: "This book suffers from serious shortcomings. Poppe's information is essentially limited to a series of notes and documents which come from a superficial investigation in a single archive collection - the Archives of the Belgian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Contrary to what he claims in his book, Poppe has never done any research in the Archives of the Belgian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. His book is a synthesis of notes and documents drawn up and collected by a third party who has consulted these archives. A cursory consultation? In any case, in his book, neither the correspondence between Brussels and the Guardianship, nor the reports of the Colonial Security, nor the correspondence between the agents of the Guardianship, are studied and taken into account." De Witte reiterates the same points in his 2021 book the assassination, which is the most recent scholarship on the affair, and his own research quite clearly extends beyond Poppe's. So in summation: since we prefer most recent scholarship for our sources, which is De Witte 2021, and De Witte is quite clear that Poppe's work is superficial and builds upon it with more extensive research, this article is not missing much by not including it as a source.

That's all from me. Interesting to see that the way Rwagasore's legacy was utilized, or not, by successive Burundian leaders throughout the years. Solid article, and well-done for covering a topic that is definitely not well-covered here. Kaiser matias (talk) 04:09, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Happy with the comments above, but you didn't address the comment about non-English sources? Kaiser matias (talk) 18:24, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Kaiser matias: Apologies for the confusion. I normally address the points as I go one by one and then ping the reviewer when I'm done. At any rate, I'm now finished responding to your comments so have a look. -Indy beetle (talk) 19:32, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No need to apologize, instead I will be for pre-empting you here. A little too eager on my end to comment here apparently. But I'm happy to say I'm good to support now. Excellent work here. Kaiser matias (talk) 22:11, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Funk edit

  • Marking my spot for now. Seems Congo Crisis is duplinked in the article body. FunkMonk (talk) 13:27, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fixed.
  • The article looks a bit empty, perhaps spice it up with pictures of places or people mentioned?
    • As you can see in the image review above, this is rather difficult for Burundi, which has no freedom of panorama and few freely-licensed photographs of its VIPs. -Indy beetle (talk) 22:34, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link Hutu and other terms only linked in the intro at first mention in the article body too.
    • Done.
  • "institutions in Bukeye, Kanyinya, and Gitega" Link these and other places?
    • Gitega is already linked; the other two places do not have articles.
  • "The administration was irritated" Add Belgian or colonial for clarity?
    • Added "colonial".
  • "from the Conseil Supérieur du Pays" Should this be in italics?
    • Rewritten and italicised.
  • Link anti-colonial to something?
  • "He resigned from the post to focus on his political career." How soon after?
    • Sources do not say, though presumably quite quickly.
  • "emancipation of the Murundi people" Is this the same as Urundi?
    • Yes, but explicitly referring to the people and not the land; this is a direct quote. Strange that it is rendered as "Murundi", as Mu- words in Bantu languages like Kirundi are singular, while the plural is Ba- words (e.g. "Barundi" refers to the people of Burundi/Urundi, while "Murundi" would mean a single person from Burundi). But this is how the text puts it.
  • "Wary of the growing Hutu-Tutsi conflict in Ruanda, he sought to counteract tensions by bringing members of both groups into UPRONA's leadership." I wonder if we need some explanation here that it is neighbouring Rwanda, and it has a similar ethnic composition as Burundi? It's implied, but I'm not sure if it comes across to unfamiliar readers.
  • "known as the Front Commun" Italics?
    • Reformatted.
  • You sometimes use the spelling "Rwagosore", should be consistent.
    • Fixed.
  • "members were felt they were" Seems the first "were" is unnecessary.
    • Fixed.
  • "and that prime minister had" Missing "the"?
    • Fixed.
  • Why were so many Greeks involved? What's the connection?
    • See my response to Kaiser matias above. There is a footnote which explains the probable personal motivations of Iatrou and Kageorgis. More of a "businessmen conspiracy" than a "Greek conspiracy".
  • "delegation to Burundi draft a report" Missing "to" before draft?
    • Fixed.
  • "the civil unrrest" Extra r.
  • Support - looking good to me now. FunkMonk (talk) 21:04, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source review from Ealdgyth edit

  • http://www.larevuetoudi.org/fr/story/lassassinat-du-premier-ministre-burundais-louis-rwagasore - Belgian newspaper or newsmedia or is this an academic journal? I can't quite tell from the google translate.
    • Here is the French wiki article on it. It's published by the Centre d'études wallonnes et de République (Center for Walloon and Republican Studies) and appears to champion the works of Walloon academics. Appears to be a left-leaning newsletter with an academic focus. At any rate, I'm using it much more on the basis of De Witte's reputation for his thorough studies of assassinations.
    • Ealdgyth if you have doubts about the reliability of this paper, please see my little investigation above which confirms that De Witte is a subject-matter expert. JBchrch talk 20:09, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      • I didn't have too many worries, but better to be safe ... besides, I learn something new this way! Ealdgyth (talk) 23:57, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Current ref 73 (Deutsche Welle) - should Deutsche Welle be in italics?
    • It's not a website name, it's the name of the publisher, and a proper noun in that respect commonly known by its German name even in English, not "German World". We don't italicise it in its own article Deutsche Welle. Per MOS:BADITALICS, A proper name is usually not italicized.
  • I'm going to guess that https://www.iwacu-burundi.org/du-passe-compose-au-futur-simple-les-proces-et-lexecution-des-assassins-du-prince/ is from a Burundian newspaper or other newsmedia? Do we have a wiki article on them to help judge reliablity?
    • Iwacu is Burundi's only private newspaper and faces lots of pressure from the government for its independence. They were the only private Burundian media outlet to survive the government crackdown in the wake of the 2015 Burundian coup d'état attempt. Foreign Policy magazine did a profile on them a few years ago here. It has also been cited by other academic works for coverage on events in Burundi ([6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11]).
  • Current ref 93 (BURUNDI – BELGIUM) ... per MOS:ALLCAPS, we don't use all capitals even when the original does so.
    • Fixed.
  • I see that Scarcrow Press is an imprint of Rowman & Littleman, so that's a good quality publisher even if the name isn't highly familiar to most folks at FAC
  • De Witte, Ludo (2021). Meurtre Au Burundi... lacks a publishing location, unlike all the other books in the referencesa
    • Based off of the publishers, it's almost certainly Paris & Bujumbura, but I have the print edition which does not cite any locations.
  • I randomly googled three sentences and nothing showed up except mirrors. Earwig's tool shows no signs of copyright violations.
Otherwise everything looks good. Note that I will be claiming points from this review for the wikicup. Ealdgyth (talk) 15:11, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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