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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Killer7/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Karanacs 13:16, 31 August 2010 [1].

Killer7 edit

Killer7 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Axem Titanium (talk) 09:25, 9 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The previous nomination was closed early mostly due to procedural reasons. I believe this article meets the FA criteria by being well referenced and comprehensive. Axem Titanium (talk) 09:25, 9 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: no dab links, no dead external links. Ucucha 09:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: images reviewed at previous FAC. No remaining issues as of this (current) version. Эlcobbola talk 16:19, 9 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sources comments

  • Ref 24: Unseen64 appears to be an archive. Do we have any information on the original sources of its material?
  • Ref 37: If Edge is a mgazine, it should be italicised
  • Ref 38: Lacks retrieval date. What is "Famitsu"?
  • Ref 41: Nintendo Power should be italicised
  • Ref 42: What makes "insert credit" a reliable source?
  • Ref 45: New York Times should be italicised
  • Ref 50: Joystiq appears to be a blog
  • Ref 56 is in Japanese, needs noting

Otherwise sources look OK. Note also: there are several uncited statements in the article. Brianboulton (talk) 10:41, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As I noted in the first FAC, "The Joystiq ref is actually a primary source, since it reproduces Thompson's letter in full. insert credit is of unknown reliability (which is to say, it hasn't been discussed), but the contributing author, Tim Rogers, is a well-known New Games Journalist, who provides a unique perspective not found in other reviews. Unseen 64 also provides primary sources in the sense that they compile pre-release/beta screenshots into one central location. I'm not citing the article, but the screenshots found in the article. But, if you still have an objection to it, I'm not particularly attached to that bit of information." All the other changes have been made. What uncited statements are you referring to? Axem Titanium (talk) 11:24, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I removed the Unseen 64 bit since it lacks context and importance. Axem Titanium (talk) 15:23, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I will let reviewers with a better knowledge than mine decide if Joystiq and insert credit are acceptable sources. As to uncited sentences, here are a couple:-
  • "The interaction between Japan and the US is a central source of conflict in Killer7".
    This is just a general statement which is made evident by the majority of the plot of the game being about US-Japan relations. I don't think it needs a source. Axem Titanium (talk) 01:04, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    "Casamassina was also impressed by the quality of the anime-style cutscenes featured in the later half of the game."
    The previous ref sources both statements. I moved it to make this more clear. Axem Titanium (talk) 01:04, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Brianboulton (talk) 17:26, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Why is "United States" linked?
  • Is "actually" adding to the meaning in the second para?
  • "received extremely polarizing reviews"—consider just "received polarized reviews".
  • "While some reviewers could appreciate the stripped down controls"—"Could" might even be POV; it's at least redundant ... "reviewers appreciated". Hyphen "stripped-down".
  • "Jack Thompson, an outspoken video game activist, also criticized the game for its alleged "full-blown sex sequences", but his claims were ultimately refuted." Rm "also". What claims were refuted? That it contains sex sequences, or social/political claims about them?
  • "Despite these setbacks, killer7's cult appeal eventually led to remakes of Suda51's older works, as well as the successful launch of No More Heroes." Or simpler: "Despite these setbacks, killer7's cult appeal led to remakes of Suda51's older works and the successful launch of No More Heroes."

Looking further down from the lead, things like: "By holding a button, the player character moves forward and another button causes the character to reverse direction." Can it be grammatically parallel?

I think the prose needs work. I am away Sunday to Friday. Tony (talk) 08:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I made the changes you mentioned and I gave the whole article a fresh copyedit. What do you think? Axem Titanium (talk) 15:40, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Revisiting by request (I'm about to be offline for a week). It looks ok. But at random, I picked out:
  • "killer7 received divisive reviews and sparked debates about the role of video games as art and depictions of sex and violence in video games." Readers will trip over this. Either remove the last three words or fix some other way.
  • It's partly a personal style, partly wider than that, but you might consider more commas before the high-level structural "ands", especially where the sentence is long and there aren't too many other "ands" hanging around: "He found that despite poor pacing and stilted gameplay, the "quirky scripting and edgy plot" were strong draws, and called killer7 one of "most artfully designed footnotes in gaming history".
  • I won't use quote-marks because there's already a quote within: Kristan Reed of Eurogamer described killer7 as "a concept game, an arthouse game, a simple game, an often beautiful game, but most certainly never an everyman's game", keenly aware of the game's limited appeal.—What is the status of the last clause? I don't get it.
  • "criticized those same aspects"—just "the same", I think. Do you? Then remove "also". Comma before "while". And consider not using "while" too much as a clause connector: it's a bit laboured (and carries possible unintended meanings).
  • Lots of s and zh sounds: "the PlayStation 2 version, causing the latter's scores to suffer." The latter's is ungainly.
So, I think an unfamiliar editor should look through it carefully. WP needs to cover these pop cultural fields with razor-sharp prose—there's so much slop out there on the Internet on vid games, it's the way to gain authority. I'm not saying this is slop; but it needs a bit of cleaning up. I didn't oppose because I knew I'd be away during the crucial improvement period. Tony (talk) 12:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I made the changes you pointed out and I've called on a few people to take a look at it and maybe tighten up the prose. Axem Titanium (talk) 13:18, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment MOS:TM states "Trademarks rendered without any capitals are always capitalized" Article should be Killer7 not killer7 - X201 (talk) 13:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - the prose seems cleaned up to me, though Tony is the expert. A few points-
  • The lead says that it received polarizing reviews due to the complex plot, but in reception you don't have any critiques of the plot, besides 1up calling it "edgy". Seems more like it was split due to the control scheme and art style than control scheme and plot.
  • You link the publisher sometimes in the reception, but not always. I'd link IGN, 1up etc every time.
  • Plot- I thought at the end he was going to kill Iwazaru/Kun Lan, but then suddenly he doesn't and it's a century later and Kun Lan/Harman are immortal? And before that, Garcian turns out to really be Emir, and killed the 7 manifestations of Harman's personality 50 years ago but now is one of the 7 manifestations? A few more sentences here to clear it up would be nice. --PresN 15:41, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for the comments. I must've forgotten to add something about plot in the reception section, so I added it. I linked all the publishers and I tried to clarify WTF is going on at the end of the game (it's very confusing, as reviewers note, lol). Axem Titanium (talk) 17:20, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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