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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Johnstown Inclined Plane/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 04:07, 19 February 2011 [1].

Johnstown Inclined Plane

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Johnstown Inclined Plane (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): ​​​​​​​​Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 17:37, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Of the three in Pennsylvania, the Johnstown Inclined Plane is the only funicular you can drive on. Built after the flood, it fulfilled its purpose as a escape route for future floods twice—in 1936 and 1977—and is now, primarily, a tourist attraction. I believe the article to satisfy the FA criteria; thanks in part to both Dthomsen8 and Ruhrfisch providing helpful reviews of the article. In the spirit of full disclosure, I am currently a part of the WikiCup, though that isn't the primary reason for nominating the article. ​​​​​​​​Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 17:37, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support As noted above, I peer reviewed this and feel it meets the FA criteria. I made almost all of my comments in the PR (as well as a few fairly minor edits). The only other suggestion I have is to ask if it would be possible to identify the valleys seen in the panorama at the bottom of the article in the panorama caption? From looking at the USGS topographic map, it seems like the Stoney Creek valley is to the right, the Little Conemaugh valley is visible to left of center, and they flow together to form the Conemaugh River, which is on the far left. Very nicely done, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 21:09, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Image review - the article has six photographs, which are all freely licensed and by Wikipedia editors (two-thirds of the photos are by Niagara). Ruhrfisch ><>°° 21:09, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. As this is a wikicup-related nomination I won't vote yay or nay, but it's the kind of little article that I enjoy, so I will make a few observations:
  • Bethlehem Steel stopped supplying electricity in 1962, after which some work was done on the motors, so who supplies the electricity now?
  • ... ridership on the incline declined starting in the 20th century". That "incline declined" is rather awkward.
  • "Only one human fatality has occurred at the incline, which was determined to not have been caused by the incline itself." That's rather awkwardly written. The split infinitive ("to not have been") doesn't really work, and the which is relating back to the incline, not to the fatality.
  • "The cars are ... large enough to carry 65 people, 6 motorcycles, or an automobile." That's inherently ambiguous; I guess it means that the cars are large enough to carry 65 people and 6 motorcycles or 65 people and one automobile, but it could equally mean that the cars can carry 65 people and 6 motorcycles or one automobile (i.e., one automobile instead of 65 people and 6 motorcycles).
  • OK, now that I look at it, it's actually supposed read "65 people or 6 motorcycles or an automobile." I added "either" so that it now reads "either 65 people, 6 motorcycles, or an automobile", if that's any better. ​​​​​​​​Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 22:45, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Two cars traverse the slope ...". From my skiing days, which I hope are not yet over, I seem to recall that traversing is to run across the slope, not up or down the slope. Is the meaning different in this context? Malleus Fatuorum 23:50, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Malleus Fatuorum 15:08, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Source comments – Did some spot-checking of the sources avaliable online and came up with several pointers.

  • The only close paraphrasing issue I see is that "With the construction of new roads and interstates" is identical in the article and reference 4. Other than that, there were no problems in this regard. Still, that is closer than you would likely want.
  • Reference 7 doesn't appear to contain anything about lighting, the first of two sentences it's supposed to cover. It's possible that I missed it, of course.
  • Reference 22 gives a date that conflicts with the article regarding when the plane re-opened from repairs. It says that the plane re-opened on April 14, while the article says it was closed through the 15th.
  • The Henry Fountain article doesn't say the Knoxville Incline was curved; after discussing its length, it says two different inclines had curves.

On the positive side, source reliability seems to check out okay. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:44, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Disambig/External Link check - no dabs or dead external links. --PresN 22:05, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Images File:HistoricPlacesNationalRegisterPlaque.JPG appears to be attributed to the wrong source, File:P_train.svg lack information to verify it is in the public domain, an WP:OTRS ticket would go a long way to solving this. Fasach Nua (talk) 12:22, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mind you, those are portal link images and if there is indeed an issue with their sourcing here, then it must be an issue elsewhere, and {{Portal/Images/NRHP}} and {{Portal/Images/Trains}} should obviously be changed. It should probably be taken up with the relevant wikiproject, rather than here, as I really don't have control over which images were chosen for their respective portal links. ​​​​​​​​Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 14:58, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Let's not get bogged down in Fasach's P_train crusade here. It's already discussed at another FAC which is the wrong place for it anyway. Fasach has not adequately explained why an OTRS ticket would change anything. - hahnchen 15:45, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have edited the file page for File:HistoricPlacesNationalRegisterPlaque.JPG on Commons to make the source clearer - JonahThunder took the photograph, but the plaque itself is the work of the NRHP and so is PD-USGov. I assume this is what Fasach Nua meant by attributed to the wrong source. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 16:50, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support Query Interesting read, I made a few tweaks, hope you like them, if not it's a Wiki.... "With the growing popularity of the automobile and subsequent construction of new roads, ridership on the incline diminished starting in the 20th century." could do with greater clarity and perhaps rephrasing. Ideally one would like some more precise dates as to when ridership actually started to fall, and also more detail about the new roads. Is there information available as to how far apart the stations were by road when they were built and today? You've included current pricing which can be contentious per WP:NOPRICES, I think this might be one of the exceptions where pricing is relevant, but if so it would probably help if you could also source the original prices. You might also mention hours of operation - I'm assuming unlike the roads it isn't 24/7? Also is there any chance of a map? ϢereSpielChequers 16:31, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I am happy with any edits that makes the prose read better. I have a source that says the incline was losing $25,000 by 1961; the same source also says it take 10 minutes to drive to the top of hill, but was in the 1967. I agree that this would be exception to NOTPRICES, as long as I didn't list them all out. I am not quite sure what you mean by "source the original prices". I could add the hours of operation, but they seem to change frequently depending on funding levels and time of the year. I could also make a map, but I'm not sure how informative/exciting it would be considering the incline only travels between two places. ​​​​​​​​Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 00:25, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I was hoping for a map showing not just the railway but the road alternative, including perhaps the new road mentioned. Rivers and areas affected by the three floods would also be nice. The original prices I meant were those charged when it first opened. If it has different hours for a tourist season and out of season then I think that would be relevant if sourceable. ϢereSpielChequers 00:34, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
OK, that confused me, I wasn't sure I had mentioned the original fare or not. The 1967 source mentions that the fare was a penny in the 1920s. I am not all that familiar with Johnstown area but there appears to be no one road that made the incline obsolete (see Google Maps). Though a map of Johnstown showing the incline, major roads, rivers and floods would, indeed, be a good idea, but perhaps for the city article, instead. ​​​​​​​​Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 01:09, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
For me the Google image gives a lot of context to the plane as there is no road alternative for quite some distance on either side. If either Millcreek rd or the one on the other side of the slopes hadn't existed earlier I could understand an even stronger need for the plane - so if a map that at least showed the nearest road alternatives was possible I think it would be a useful addition. But the 90 second/ten minute comparison does somewhat cover this, so I'm moving to support either way. ϢereSpielChequers 23:42, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support for Featured Article status. This article was very good when I did some peer review earlier in the year, and comments during the FA process have made it even better. Perhaps a map would be a reasonable idea, but the coordinates allow me to use Bing or Google maps look at where the incline is, relative to alternative roads and the nearby rivers. --DThomsen8 (talk) 18:08, 11 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Very well-done! I made one small edit, but didn't find anything else to fix. I think it meets the FA criteria. --Coemgenus 15:03, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Sasata (talk) 00:42, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support Ok, enough nitpicking from me, I think the article meets FAC criteria. I still think it would be good to include the information about stone abutments when you can find a source for it. Sasata (talk) 03:41, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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