Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/John L. Helm

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 22:19, 11 April 2009 [1].

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John L. Helm

Nominator(s): Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)}

I have recently done a total rewrite of this article. Following the rewrite, I had a very good copy editor go over the text. The article just passed GA, and I believe should be able to make FA. To my knowledge, I have consulted all major sources on the subject. I look forward to your reviews, and hopefully, your support. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 02:45, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• Tech. Comment -- Dabs and external links (checker tools), and ref formatting (WP:REFTOOLS) found up to speed.--₮RUCӨ 02:58, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

• Comments - sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Not that I was the GA reviewer, and brought up the age of some of the sources on the GAN page. You can see Acdixon's reply there about the fact that little has been written about his recently. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:54, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Support Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) Simply excellent, but I do have a few nitpicks:

• "studied with noted educator Duff Green." I suppose you couldn't be more specific? Was he a tutor, professor, or just a plain teacher.

• The source doesn't really say. The Wikipedia article on Green calls him a "school teacher", but Kentucky's Governors calls him a lawyer, so perhaps he read law with him. I really don't know, so I've used the generic "educator".

• Better to play it safe than risk being wrong. Dabomb87 (talk) 19:26, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

• "in the office Samuel Haycraft" Is there a missing "of"?

• Yep. Thanks.

• "There were no lawyers in this new county" You just mentioned that the county was formed, so obviously it was new. Maybe "There were no lawyers in this county yet..."

• Done.

• "one of the youngest members ever to serve in "

• Done.

• "1827 and 1830, then was re-elected every year from 1833 to 1837" Missing conjunction, I think.

• I've added an "and" although I'm not sure if it's necessary grammatically.

• "The two were not reconciled until 1852" Simplify tense: "The two did not reconcile until 1852"

• Done.

• Per WP:DASH, em dashes should not be spaced.

• I thought I used all en dashes. I can't find any occurrences of —.

• "Logan County — many of whom he had personally sold stock to — to" Dabomb87 (talk) 19:26, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

• Thanks. Fixed now.

• There are inconsistencies in the page notation, multiple pages should be denoted with pp. and single pages with p.

• Good catch. I think I got them all now.

• "a number of other citizens " "a number of"-->several

• Done.

• "With the state's courts closed on account of the war" With is usually a poor connector. Maybe "Because the state's courts were closed on account of the war". Dabomb87 (talk) 22:15, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

• Done. Thanks for the review. Let me know if there are other things that need to be addressed, or the above haven't been addressed sufficiently. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 19:07, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

• "Helm was classified as a southern sympathizer by federal authorities." Convert this to active voice.

• Done.

• "September, 1862" I don't believe the comma is necessary.

• Done.

• "sufferage" Is this a word? Are you referring to suffrage?

• Yep. Bad spelling on my part.

• "eleven one-year terms" Numbers over ten should be spelled out, particularly because these are adjacent quantities.

• Done.

• "When Helm was 14 his father fell on hard financial times and Helm returned to work on the family farm" I think it would helpe readability here if a comma was inserted after "14".

• Done.

• "his father's debt's " Surely you mean "his father's debts"?

• Yep. Fixed now.

• "he built a home there which he " Two options: "he built a home there that he " or "he built a home there, which he"

• Fixed.

• "act granting debtors "-->act that granted debtors

• Done.

• "In 1843 the Kentucky General Assembly proposed to create a new county from part of Hardin County and name it Helm County in honor of John L. Helm." Another instance in which I think a comma would help, after "1843".

• Done.

• "death bed" I've usually seen it written as one word, although perhaps this is an English variant?

• Not sure if it is a variant, but I have no problem changing it as suggested.

• "Alderman" Wikilink, not a very common term (one usually sees "council member")

• Done.

• "and also succeeded in selling"

• Done.

• "introduced legislation that called for " Legislation doesn't really "call".

• Reworded. How does that sound?

• Better. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:04, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Think that's it. Mostly proofreading stuff. Dabomb87 (talk) 19:26, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the careful reading. Hope you can now support the article's promotion. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 12:20, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

• Suppport, this is very good. I was really only left with one question:
  • "After nine ballots Helm withdrew, and Letcher was elected speaker." Do we know 9 out of how many? That would provide a bit more context. 9 out of 20 seems gentlemanly, but 9 out of 100 seems babyish, if you see my point.

--Laser brain (talk) 16:49, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about the slow response; my laptop charger died and my access to the Internet has been limited. The source says that Helm withdrew after nine ballots "whereupon" the House chose Letcher over Morehead. The implication seems to be that it was the very next ballot. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 14:14, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

• Support. Very well-done. Karanacs (talk) 16:11, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

• Images:
  • File:CSMorehead.jpg- you need a date here, else we can't verify that it's PD.
    • The Kentucky Historical Society's web site says the date of creation and author are unknown. This is the only image of Morehead I've been able to find anywhere. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 14:14, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
      • Unfortunately, we can't use undocumented images, so it will have to be removed. --Der Wohltempierte Fuchs ^(talk) 19:15, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
        • I've removed it from this article. Any chance it could stay (at least on the article about Morehead himself) under some type of fair use claim? Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 19:36, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
          • Possibly, but you have to meet WP:NFCC, so you're going to have to prove it was previously published or released (shouldn't be hard, but just follow it precisely.) --Der Wohltempierte Fuchs ^(talk) 20:31, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
  • File:JohnLaRueHelm.jpg- no author or date here, either.
    • Added the author and date here based on Kentucky Historical Society web site. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 14:14, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
      • A fully filled out template like {{Description}} would be nice. --Der Wohltempierte Fuchs ^(talk) 19:15, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
  • The thick black borders around the image are somewhat pointless and distracting, but that's an aesthetic quibble. --Der Wohltempierte Fuchs ^(talk) 19:38, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
    • This is shaping up to be a hectic week, but if I have time (and my replacement laptop charger comes in) I may see if I can crop that off. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 14:14, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
      • Hope you don't mind, but I've gone ahead and cropped that; I agree it looks better without the border, and if you want me to do the same with the Crittenden image, let me know. Steve ^{T • C} 15:13, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose. EDIT: Struck. Steve ^{T • C} I considered a support with added suggestions, as I don't think it's far off at all, but there are just a few prose issues, seemingly concentrated in the first couple of sections. It would be a shame if they weren't tackled before this disappears from FAC. Details follow. Steve ^{T • C}

  Lead

  • "was the eighteenth and twenty-fourth governor of Kentucky. Though he twice held the office of governor, his service in that office totaled less than fourteen months." Seems to be telling us the same information twice (that he was governor two times). Consider merging or making the second sentence a lot shorter (e.g. "His two terms totaled less than fourteen months.")
    • Done.
  • "The Whigs won the general election and Helm was elevated to governor on July 31, 1850, when Crittenden resigned to accept an appointment as United States Attorney General in the cabinet of President Millard Fillmore." Slightly long sentence that could benefit from recasting to read more concisely. Example: "in President Millard Fillmore's cabinet."
    • Done.
  • "Although he openly opposed secession..." This is a borderline Easter egg link; the link points to Secession in the United States rather than secession. In any event, the sentence lacks context for anyone not au fait with that period of American history; the mention of the civil war only comes after this point. It wouldn't hurt to spell it out.
    • I've tried to improve this.
  • "Helm was labeled a Southern sympathizer at the outbreak of the American Civil War." By whom? The article body says, but it still begs the question up here.
    • Clarified.
  • "He was too weak to travel to Frankfort for his inauguration, so state officials traveled to his home and administered the oath of office there on September 3, 1867." The "there" is weak. Consider rewording to remove it, e.g. "He was too weak to travel to Frankfort for his inauguration, so state officials administered the oath of office at his home on September 3, 1867."
    • Done.

  Early life

  • Why does it use "John L. Helm" instead of "Helm" throughout the section? There are better ways of differentiating between Helm and his family members, and it would make the opening sentence less choppy.
    • Agree it's awkward, but with so many Helms being mentioned, I thought this was necessary. I've tried to clean it up some.
  • Speaking of which, it could be improved by eliminating the "twenty-two years later" statement; the dates are mentioned, so there's no need for this. It could instead be rendered more concisely by splitting and then merging with the second statement about Helm's birth, e.g. "...Hardin County, where John L. Helm was born on..."
    • Done.
  • "better-paying" Better-paid? Maybe both are OK.
    • I think both work, but it's not a big deal if you insist on making this change.
  • Should "Meade County Attorney" be "Meade county attorney" or "Meade's county attorney"? While you'd use capitals in the title "County Attorney John L. Helm", you wouldn't in "John L. Helm, the county attorney".
    • Yeah, seems like all of these rules are running together in this sentence. I've adopted your suggestion of "Meade's county attorney". It still seems a little awkward to me, but better than before.
  • "the Helm homestead where he was born." Redundant; we've already been told this.
    • Done.
  • "neighboring Hardin County..." Redundant; already told that too.
    • Done.
  • "Between 1832 and 1840 he built a home there that he called "Helm Place", and which remained his home for the rest of his life." Further redundancies; consider combining elements to make something along the lines of "Between 1832 and 1840 he built "Helm Place" there, which remained his home for the rest of his life." This presents the same information in far fewer words. It could even be merged with the previous sentence to eliminate that unsightly "there".
    • I thought it was necessary to identify "Helm Place" as a house, which was the reason for the awkward sentence, but looking back on it, I think it sounds OK the way I've edited it now.

  Political career

  • "Reeling from the financial Panic of 1819..." The capitalisation on "Panic" doesn't work if preceded by "financial"; consider removal of "financial", or recasting the sentence if you think it needs the context of the word. Alternatively, pipe it into the wikilink.
    • Done.

  President of the Louisville and Nashville Railroad

  • "some observers" Do we know who? If Klein doesn't say, fair enough.
    • I've already returned that book to the library, but best I recall, Klein doesn't specify.
  • "On February 4, 1860, two members of the company's board of directors wrote a letter requesting Helm's resignation and claiming they had voted for his re-election as president of the company with the understanding that he would resign when the main line between Louisville and Nashville was finished." A little long? It needs a breather at some point, e.g. "...resignation; they claimed..."
    • Yes, much better.
  • "But the rift between Helm and the directors continued to widen." It's seldom good to begin a sentence with "But".
    • Corrected.
  • No real need for that "Nevertheless".
    • Eliminated.

  Civil War and second term as governor

  • "were arrested by Colonel Knox." Who is Colonel Knox? He isn't mentioned before or after this statement, so can't be that relevant to this article.
    • The source only says "Colonel Knox". Because of this, I left him out initially. Then a reviewer said he wanted to know more about the forces who arrested Helm, so I added this as the only indication I had of who the forces were. I was hoping someone familiar with this time period could provide a wikilink, even if it's a red link.
  • "of his son, Benjamin..." Twice said in a short space. The first time in the section is enough to introduce him as Helm's son, and simply "Benjamin" thereafter will do.
    • Done.

  General—throughout

  • Inconsistent use of numerals: "twenty-two", "24", etc.
  • Inconsistent use of comma/no-comma after opening "[In/On] [date]".
  • Review WP:DASH. Found hyphen used where endash should be. Check for other instances.
    • I'll have to get to these later, since they will take some time to identify in the prose. Not having my laptop (now have determined that my charger was lost in the mail) has made it harder to get back to Wikipedia with regularity. Hopefully, I can get these addressed in the next couple of days.
      • I think I've caught all of these, so don't worry about it. Steve ^{T • C} 15:13, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
• This long list makes the writing seem worse than it is; these are largely minor issues that should be resolvable quickly. The only other recommendation I have is to make further sweeps for redundancies; there are still a few spots that might benefit. Otherwise, it's an interesting read and seemingly well-researched. I'll watchlist this page, so no need to ping me if and when these issues are tackled/rebutted. All the best, Steve ^{T • C} 22:46, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the review. Let me know if any of my fixes above are insufficient, and I'll try to get to the remaining ones soon. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 14:00, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
• Support. Your fixes/rebuttals check out fine by me. Striking oppose. Nice work, Steve ^{T • C} 15:13, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.