Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Independence Day (India)/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by GrahamColm 12:00, 3 September 2012 [1].

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Independence Day (India)

Independence Day (India) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured article candidates/Independence Day (India)/archive1

Nominator(s): Dwaipayan (talk) 19:31, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

I am nominating this article on behalf of the WikiProject India as a featured article candidate. The article has passed a detailed good article nomination. The article follows summary style, and uses title case for the references. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 19:31, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Images: the historical images lack a US copyright tag. I'm afraid I can't tell you which. In terms of the rest of the article, I'm a bit unclear on whether the article is on on the day of Independence in 1947, or the commemoration of that day every year, and whether this matters. One perhaps other commenters here can think about. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 19:39, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment. I am not well informed on the technical details and requirement of the copyright status of the images. If the images lack US copyright tag, can not they be used in the article?

The article is on Independence Day, comprising both of history of the day (how independence came on this day in 1947), and also how it is celebrated afterwards. Is the text in the article confusing on its scope? Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 21:06, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

On the former, yes, they do. They should be deleted if not, the guys at WP:MCQ should be able to help. On the second point I'm not sure, I haven't had the time to consider the options. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 21:09, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

At least Template:PD-US will not be applicable here, I think! --Tito Dutta ✉ 21:41, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

I have asked the question there. Thanks.--Dwaipayan (talk) 21:42, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

The question has been answered there. The historical images are not in the public domain in the US and have been nominated in Commons for deletion. I have removed the images from the article. Thanks for guiding us. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 04:07, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

comment as an outside editor, there is no way this is yet ready for FA (dont een know how it got GA). There is plenty of vague commetns (csome i just edited). It is also not comprehensive as it deals primarily with Delhi's even s (with brief mention of northeast in passing). Lots more work to be dne to compete itLihaas (talk) 03:07, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Lihaas for the comments and the edits. Due to your edits, several of the vague comments got more concrete; we will address the tags soon. Please continue to edit the article and add tags as you think appropriate.

Regarding describing events elsewhere other than Delhi, the article says, " Similar events take place in state capitals where the Chief Ministers of individual states unfurl the national flag, and parades and pageants follow." And then, the whole third paragraph of "celebration" section describes the way the day is celebrated in the whole country, not just Delhi. Do you think that the third paragraph of the "celebration" section seems to describe only Delhi, and not whole India? If you think so, can you please suggest a way so that it can be more explicit in saying that the events described are pan-India phenomena and not just in Delhi?--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:15, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Good to see the tags are answered, thats hte point of tags.

I see some mention of other parts but its too general with UNDUE emphasis on delhi (granted national capital will have more, but dont think it should have that much more emphasis). Also mention the celebrations in other countries. For example, i went to an event at the indian embassy in tel aviv once, i imagine similar stuff happens in other embassies. Possibly historical negatives in pakistan? (dont know for sure, just throwing things out there). Do the embassies have local dignataries attending? the indian one in went to didnt but the usa one did on july 4 in tel avivLihaas (talk) 00:12, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Comments

• —Dominion of India (later Republic of India) and Dominion of Pakistan (later Islamic Republic of Pakistan); the partition was stricken with violent communal riots. - I cannot get a flow that is a must. Both sentence do not go well with each other in a way it is. Either make a new sentence or remove it. + Is the last part focused? (tells more about the consequences of partition and nothing about the day)

First of all, thanks for the comments. We've been waiting for comments :)

The body of the article says about partition as this coincided with, and was an offshoot of, the independence, and officially happened on 15 August 1947. The lead merely summarizes the article. So, this is not off-topic.

Regarding semicolon, please read the "Additive relationships: how close are the ideas?" part in User:Tony1/How_to_improve_your_writing#Sentences. A link with a semicolon is used for linking "reasonably close ideas". In this case, the full sentence reads, "The independence coincided with the partition of India wherein the British Indian Empire was divided along religious lines into two new states—Dominion of India (later Republic of India) and Dominion of Pakistan (later Islamic Republic of Pakistan); the partition was stricken with violent communal riots". The first part of the sentence describes the partition, and after the semicolon it says the partition was full of violence. These are very much related ideas. Well, I am far from being an expert in semicolons; so, this may be discussed with an expert. In any case, using a full stop also won't stop the flow radically.--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:15, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

• Whenever "Independence Day of India" is used, the I and D are capitalized but they are also made at other places so is it appropriate?

We could not find any specific guidelines on whether to use capital letters or small letters in such cases. However, what we have made sure is we use one style consistently. If you see any inconsistencies, please change it or notify here.--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:15, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

• In the infobox; "speech by the Prime Minister" - I believe that our President also delivers a speech.

Added President's speech in the infobox.--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:15, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

• Is it possible to add something about "pre-celebration" such as vendors start selling accessories, shows start telecasting relevant shows etc before I-Day.

Of course it is possible, we just need some reliable sources to support it. We'll search for this.--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:15, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

• The features in the act go strongly off topic. What does it have to do with the day? There is one line but it is merely useless as it is covered in the other way. The features tell more about the partition rather then the day. Please remove them.

The listy features of the Act has been removed. Only the most salient points have been incorporated in the text.--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:15, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

TheSpecialUser ^TSU 03:00, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Also add DD and ohter channels' tricolour logo changeLihaas (talk) 03:11, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Do we have a reliable reference for this? If yes, we can easily add this information, with reference. (Unfortunately it has been extremely difficult to find references for such common things. We may even add this without reference, since this is witnessed by the whole country; but, will that be ok for the Wikipedia community?)--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:15, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Comments:

• "...the President of India delivers the "Address to the Nation", which is televised nationally." ... Only televised? I am sure they play it on radio also.

Agree. Changed telivised to broadcasted. BPositive (talk) 16:41, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

• "..the Prime Minister highlights the achievements of his government during the past year,.." ... Of his government or of the country?

Certainly of the country. Done. BPositive (talk) 16:41, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

• Image's description reads "A child with a replica of the national flag"... What's replica? Is there only one original?

I've changed the caption. Please have a look at it. BPositive (talk) 16:41, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

• "The Indian national anthem, Jana Gana Mana is sung." ... Jana Gana Mana should not be italicized but be inserted in inverted commas.

Done. BPositive (talk) 15:36, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

• "Newspapers have reported a trend that the celebration pattern... " .... This line is suddenly out of place.

I've reconstructed the sentence and placed it at the end in a separate paragraph. Please have a look at this and let us know if it's fine. BPositive (talk) 16:17, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Short, one-sentence paragraphs are considerd "choppy", and are generally discouraged. So, that sentence should be included within a larger paragraph. I did include the sentence as the last sentence of the paragraph. I made the celebration by diaspora a separate paragraph. This also is a short paragraph; but, we are going to slightly expand that as suggested by another reviewer Lihaas.--Dwaipayan (talk) 17:18, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

• For Google doodle one sentence is sufficient. Two is too much.

Even I felt the same. I have removed the additional sentence. Just keeping the fact that Google commemorates I-Day with its doodle. BPositive (talk) 16:17, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

• "See Also" section should be removed. See WP:LAYOUT. Insert those links somewhere in the article.
• Is kite flying really a celebratory event throughout the country worth mentioning in the Infobox? Kite flying is associated with Makar Sankranti.

However, sources do indicate that it also takes place on I-day. Hence, we have kept it. BPositive (talk) 15:36, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

In the article it is okay. But not in the infobox. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 15:38, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Fine, I got your point. Done. BPositive (talk) 16:22, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

• "Times of India has also cites commercialisation.."... "has also cited".

Done.BPositive (talk) 15:36, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Might come back with more. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 15:05, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Comments:
In the lead section —

• "Citizens rejoice the day..." ..... I don't think this is a correct usage of rejoice. Rejoice can't be used as a synonym of celebrate, observe, commemorate etc.
• "..displaying the national flag on their attire, household accessories..." ..... Not household accessories, please clarify this or remove it.
• "vehicles; varied activities..." ..... More issues here. Since this is the third problem in the sentence, let me try a rewrite. "Indian citizens celebrate the day by displaying the national flag on their attire and vehicles, flying kites, listening to patriotic songs and watching patriotic movies." .... any better sentence formation that results in a better flow than the current one will do.
• "Security concerns over militant attacks and sporadic calls for boycotting the celebration by separatist outfits occasionally limit the celebration in some places." ..... This is a vague duplication of a much better phrased sentence "Some organisations have carried, out ....", which comes right after this one. The former is redundant and should be deleted.

Reply. Thanks for the suggestions. The citizens sentence has been structured now in the way you suggested. The security concerns sentence was really redundant, thanks for catching that. We have removed that sentence.--Dwaipayan (talk) 19:30, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

In the history section —

• "The present-day India was a part of the British Indian Empire. Although the British..." ..... This paragraph has an unencyclopedic once upon a time kind of a start. A possible alternative to this could be to start with facts... "European traders had established outposts in Indian subcontinent by the 17th century. British East Indian company emerged as the dominant...." ..... anything like this will do.

Reply. Fantastic suggestion, made change in the article.--Dwaipayan (talk) 19:30, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

• "Although the British East India Company started trading in India in the seventeenth century, Company rule in India started from 1757 after the Company's victory in the Battle of Plassey." ..... If you are going to use although, it should be clear what is it exactly that you are contrasting. Besides, "Company rule" is vague. Do you mean through their overwhelming military strength, East India company had managed to subdue local kingdoms and establish themselves as the dominant colonial force in India?

Reply Once again, wonderful prose improvement suggestion. Incorporated this to the article.--Dwaipayan (talk) 19:30, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

• "led to the British Crown assuming" ..... this looks like plusing to me. (learnt this from Dwaipayan recently)

Reply I was not sure if this sounds like plusing. Anyway, changed the sentence, and now it uses "to". Please have a look.--Dwaipayan (talk) 19:30, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

• "The period after World War I was marked by British reforms but also repressive legislation, by more strident Indian calls for self-rule, and by the beginnings of a non-violent movement of non-cooperation and civil disobedience, of which Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi would become the leader and enduring symbol." ..... This sentence is phrased in such a manner that it makes repressive legislation, Indian calls for self-rule and the beginning of a non-violent movement look like completely independent events. Moreover, chronology of the three events isn't absolutely clear. Don't use ", by" to connect the phrases.

In the process This change suggested is a problematic one. This sentence summarizes a massive part of the history. However, it does not necessarily do it in chronological order (is chronology needed in this case? These are occurring nearly simultaneously and over a decade or two). And I am not sure how to establish the inter-dependency of these events in the sentence. Will try to think; any suggestions are more than welcome. For now, have kept the sentence unchanged.--Dwaipayan (talk) 19:30, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Option 1 The period after World War I was marked by British reforms but also repressive legislation, simultaneous strident Indian calls for self-rule eventually leading to the beginning of a non-violent movement of non-cooperation and civil disobedience, of which Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi would become the leader and enduring symbol." -- How does it sound?--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:29, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Reply You have to clarify what the reforms and the repressive laws were. It could confuse the readers otherwise. How about "The period after World War I was marked by British reforms such as the release of political prisoners, but it also witnessed the enactment of the repressive Rowlatt Act and strident calls for self-rule by Indian freedom fighters. The widespread discontent of this period crystallized into nationwide non-violent movements of non-cooperation and civil disobedience under the leadership of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, who became the enduring symbol of the India's non-violent struggle for independence." Correct Knowledge^«৳alk» 00:24, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

I'll be back with more suggestions, if you take my comments positively. :) Correct Knowledge^«৳alk» 17:55, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Reply to CorrectKnowledge Thanks a ton for the excellent suggestions. We need more of such prose improvement tips. Please continue to provide feedback. Replies to individual concerns are written above. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 19:30, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Some more suggestions. In the history section —

• "During the 1930s, slow legislative reform was..." ..... Do you mean legislative reform was slowly/gradually enacted by the British?

done reforms gradually enacted by...

• "...slow legislative reform was enacted by the British; the Indian National Congress won victories in the resulting elections." ..... The relationship between the two sentence fragments is missing. For instance, did the legislative reform call for an election which the INC won?

Reply The second part of the sentence ends with "resulting election". That is supposed to mean that the elections resulting from the reforms. If the meaning is not clear, we will change the structure.

• "The next decade was beset with crises: Indian participation in World War II, the Congress's final push for non-cooperation, and an upsurge of" ..... Can "Congress's final push for non-cooperation" be called a crisis? Maybe political turmoil would be a better word.

done Used political turmoil.

• "All were capped by..." ..... All what were capped? Besides, capped and tempered don't go together. The first fragment should show that events of Independence were that of jubilation, exuberance, joy etc. for them to be tempered.

done Restructured. Please have a look.

• "In 1946, the Labour government in Britain, its exchequer exhausted by the recently concluded World War II, and conscious that it had neither..." ..... ", and conscious" does not appear to be correct, dropping the and might help. This sentence has too many commas. It needs to be broken into more sentences.

Done. Restructured, got rid of the last clause which is redundant (the next sentence says the same thing in a more concrete way).--Dwaipayan (talk) 02:39, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

• "With the British army unprepared for the potential for increased violence..." ..... a)There are two fors in one phrase. b)Why is there a scope of increased violence? Is it because of partition? Then add a sentence on it before this one. c)Why did Mountbatten advance the date instead of delaying it? Did he fear for British lives? d)Don't start with "With the...". After adding all the missing information the sentence might have to be broken into two.

In the process I will first try to consult the books to see if we find any exact cause of Mountbatten's advancing the date, then will address teh sentence structure issue. I checked the Metcalf and Metcalf book, and that mentions nose-diving economy of UK as the reason for transferring power quickly. I will check some other books (such as Wolpert), and then address this. OK?--Dwaipayan (talk) 02:39, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Reply I have the book by Read, Anthony; Fisher, David (1999). The Proudest Day: India's Long Road to Independence. W. W. Norton & Company. pp. 459–60. ISBN 978-0-393-31898-2. offline. According to this book, Mountbatten advanced the date of handing over power to 15th August because a)Indian leaders demanded independence within two months when they met him at the beginning of June 47 (there is no written record of this but it coincides with Patel's demand for independence in two months) b)with fresh squabbles arising between the Congress and the League virtually everyday, Mountbatten opined that the collapse of the interim government was a serious possibility. Correct Knowledge^«৳alk» 01:57, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

• "the principle of partition of India" ..... Do you mean the plan for partition or the idea of dividing British India into two states? Please clarify this.

done please have a look.

• "Viceroy Mountbatten chose 15 August as the date of power transfer; he chose this date as this was the second anniversary of Japan's surrender in the World War II." -> Viceroy Mountbatten chose the second anniversary of Japan's surrender in WWII, 15th August, as the date....

done

• "The Indian Independence Act 1947 (10 & 11 Geo 6 c. 30) was an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom..." ..... No need for "was an". The Indian Independence Act 1947 of the parliament of United....

done.--Dwaipayan (talk) 01:46, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

I'll be back for more. Regards. Correct Knowledge^«৳alk» 20:22, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Dwaipayan, the article looks better for your effort. However, I'll be able to comment on the changes only after I've gone through the whole article once. In the Celebration section —

• "The Congress called people..." ..... should be "...called on people...".

Done --BPositive (talk) 15:10, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

• "...to take pledge on that day until India attained complete independence" ..... to pledge what? Their support to the Indian Independence movement?

Done. Used parts of the pledge within quotes in the sentence, also provided the last paragraph of the pledge announcement as a quotation in the reference.--Dwaipayan (talk) 02:39, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

• "Between 1930 and 1947, 26 January was observed as the Independence Day of India, and carried symbolic value to the Congress." ..... Do you mean to say "... was observed as the Independence Day of India as it carried symbolic value to the Congress." Even if this is not what you meant, still try to rephrase the sentence without and.

Done

• "Independence Day is one of the three national holidays in India (...) and is observed in all Indian states and union territories." ..... again use of and feels inappropriate, I could be wrong. How about "Independence Day, one of the three national holidays in India (...), is observed in...".

Done

• "The speech is followed by march past by divisions of..." ..... two bys here. How about "... followed by a march past of the..".

Done

• "paramilitary forces, and parades and pageants showcasing events from the struggle" ..... and needs to be removed and "parades..." sentence fragment should be made into a new sentence. "Parades and pageants showcase, scenes from the freedom struggle and the various cultural traditions of India."

Done --BPositive (talk) 15:10, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

• "...Chief Ministers of individual states unfurl the national flag, and parades and pageants follow." -> "...of individual states unfurl the national flag, which is followed by parades and pageants." Correct Knowledge^«৳alk» 02:44, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Done --BPositive (talk) 15:10, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Reply: Thanks for your suggestions, CorrectKnowledge. I've made some changes to the ones I could agree with or was sure. I've left out ones where I was confused/ could not reframe the sentence. I'll leave that to other editors. Cheers! BPositive (talk) 15:10, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) In the Security Threats section —

• "Islamic fundamentalist militants" ..... drop fundamentalist, it's redundant. There are no liberal Islamic militants.

Done --BPositive (talk) 17:48, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

• "Security measures in the country are intensified before the Independence Day celebration, especially in major cities such as Delhi, Mumbai and in troubled states such as Jammu and Kashmir. The celebratory events are anticipated to be the target of terrorist attacks, particularly by the Islamic fundamentalist militants" ..... These two sentences can be combined into one sentence. "In anticipation of terrorist attacks, particularly from Islamic militants, security measures are intensified before the...".

Done --BPositive (talk) 17:48, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

• " United Liberation Front of Assam and National Democratic Front of Bodoland in Northeast India have, on more than one occassion, boycotted the celebrations and have carried out attacks on and around 15 August." ..... "boycotted the celebration" is not necessary. The fact that these outfits have carried out attacks on Independence day already suggests that they don't participate in celebrations.

Done --BPositive (talk) 17:48, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

• "looming tension" ..... this is probably an incorrect usage of loom. Actually, the two sentences on NE can be combined into one. "Celebrations in the Northeastern states of India are often marred by calls of boycott and terrorist attacks by separatist insurgent organisations like the United Liberation Front of Assam and National Democratic Front of Bodoland." This isn't perfect yet, it has two consecutive bys, but it avoids few of the problems in the earlier formulation. Correct Knowledge^«৳alk» 16:01, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

How about "Calls of boycott and terrorist attacks by separatist insurgent organisations like the United Liberation Front of Assam and National Democratic Front of Bodoland often mar the Independence Day celebrations in Northeast India." Correct Knowledge^«৳alk» 18:01, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

This one seems better and I've made the changes in the article. Thanks for it. Done --BPositive (talk) 18:11, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

I am almost done. In the popular culture section —

• "Over the decades, according to The Times of India, the number of such film(→ films) broadcast has decreased as channels report that too many patriotic films would overwhelm the audience(→ viewers) who want popular entertaining films instead, to enjoy the holiday."

Done --BPositive (talk) 18:45, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

• "The population cohort belonging to the Generation Next..." ..... belonging to -> that belong to

Done --BPositive (talk) 18:45, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

• "Outfits displaying the three colours of the national flag—saffron, green and white; use of food colours to make savouries and delicacies resembling the tri-colour; cloth-designs reflecting ideas gleaned from the cultural traditions of India are example of such mixtures." ..... an alternative way to write this could be, "The mixture of popular culture with nationalism is exemplified by outfits and savouries dyed with the tricolour and designer garments that represent the various cultural traditions of India." Correct Knowledge^«৳alk» 18:29, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Done --BPositive (talk) 18:45, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

• Support - Probably the first one here. I see no problems in the prose anymore. I get a flow while reading and it is what I look for in a brilliant article. The article is certainly improved from what it was before GAN. TheSpecialUser ^TSU 15:35, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

• Leaning towards support Support - A very few major prose corrections still need to be done. Otherwise, the prose looks up to par. Correct Knowledge^«৳alk» 19:05, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Issues raised by the reviewers have been taken care of. I am happy to support this. Regards. Correct Knowledge^«৳alk» 03:43, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Oppose Although some very good work has been done on the article, I feel it isn't ready yet. I feel the GA review was inadequate, and didn't ask many basic questions about the article:

• Existential question: is this article about the historical event that happened on 15 August 1947 or the annual holiday? It seems to be about the latter, but why are most of the artistic inspirations (Train to Pakistan, Midnight's Children) about events arising from the former? I don't think both these things should be clubbed in the same article, as they deal with completely different things.
• Article name: why not "Independence Day of India", in line with infobox and lead sentence?

Reply This I do not know. The naming is in line with wikipedia articles on the independence day of many other countries such as US,Pakistan, Finland, and so on. The nae has existed in this style perhaps since the article was created.--Dwaipayan (talk) 19:35, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Thought about this, and the article-name is fine. We celebrate Independence Day, not Independence Day of India. Hence, the (India) is a disambiguator. I've rewritten the lead sentence to reflect this.—indopug (talk) 16:18, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• Sources: have all major sources been consulted? I'm no historian, but even I know famous works such as Bipin Chandra's India's Struggle for Independence and Ram Guha's India after Gandhi, neither of which have been consulted. I also notice a greater number of books by Western authors, who may be propounding a imperialistic historiography of the Raj. More scholarly sources need to be used throughout: why is a American web-only entertainment/celebrity news and review publication used to source what happens on Independence Day?

Reply Books that were consulted include "A Concise History of Modern India" (2nd ed.). Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0-521-68225-1 (by Metcalf and Metcalf); "India". University of California Press. p. 204. ISBN 978-0-520-22172-7 by Wolpert; Sarkar, Sumit (1983). Modern India, 1885–1947. Macmillan. ISBN 978-0-333-90425-1. These are well-known general history books on India. Ramchandra Guha's "India after Gandhi" is agreat suggestion, will try to consult that. Undoubtedly, availability of books is a factor limiting the use of varied books. Do you have in mind any specific area/sentence that is doubtful?

The Monster and Critic page that has been used displays a news supplied by the agency IANS, the Indo-Asian News Service. This news briefly tells bout the ceremonies in multiple states. We could not find any other sources which described the ceremonies in so many states together. Of course there is news on celebration in different states. Since the sentence discusses celebration in many states, we used this as a reference. Otherwise, multiple references for different states would be needed. I understand Monster and Critic does not have as much acceptability as, say, Yahoo. But sourcing of the news item to IANS is acceptable. Can you suggest ny other alternative? I have not found any non-trivial books describing the ceremonies in various states. Will search more.--Dwaipayan (talk) 19:35, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Update Found an article in Outlook magazine describing the ceremonies in different state capitals. Have added that reference after this sentence, alongside Monsters and Critics. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:08, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

• Comprehensiveness:

• the brief history of colonial rule jumps from 1858 to the First World War.

Reply. Now we have added the emergence of public life in the decades following rebellion. I did not add more specifics as the article is written in summary style. What is your opinion now?--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:05, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

• The Purna Swaraj declaration look strange in the Celebrations section; I think it should be in Background, along with the other historical stuff.

Reply Agreed. I moved the part on Purna Swaraj declaration in History. However, that 26 January was celebrated as I-Day between 1930 and 1947 is kept in "Celebration" section. I will add some info on how that celebration was (Ramchandra Guha's book actually has some example of that).--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:05, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

• Why mention the first Governor-General of Pakistan but the first Prime Minister of India?

Reply India is prime focus here, so both PM and Governor-General have been mentioned. Pakistan, while very important, is not the main focus; so only the most prominent political figure's (Jinnah) post is mentioned. If you insist, we can add the name of Pakistan's first PM (Liaquat Ali Khan) as well.--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:05, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

• Security threats: IMO there needs to be more specifics here. Have there been any major incidents on I-Day? When? Did anything like this happen in the 60s and 70s? Since when (and how) have ULFA or Islamic militants been causing trouble? Also, note that you mention Islamic militants as the main threat, but elaborate with examples of Assam/J&K separatists and Maoists.

Reply What do you mean by "major incident"? Nothing like 2001 Indian Parliament attack or 2008 Mumbai attacks has happened. However, bomb blasts taking away tens of lives have occurred on many years, including 2012. We did not add all such years, as that would be too many years. However, going through your suggestions, I think adding the decade when it all started (the attacks) would be a great idea. I will try to find a good reference, and then add this information.

Why we need 1960s and 1970s? The news, books that have been consulted do not say anything specifically about those decades. However, since 1980s, ULFA threats were there.

The opening sentence says, " In anticipation of terrorist attacks, particularly from Islamic militants, security measures ...". SO it is the anticipation of Islamic militant attacks, and not actual militant attacks on 15 August that prompts security increase. This sentence is well-supported by references. We did not add any example of Islamic militant attacks as we did not find such example (of course we may have missed the news; will add if we see such news).--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:05, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Will start working on this section soon; will try to gather more specifics.--Dwaipayan (talk) 15:27, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

• Trivia: the second paragraph of In popular culture is basically a list of every artwork to be set in 1947. It is unnecessary to mention them all, and many of these are only tangentially about the event; Train to Pakistan for instance is about the horrors of the Partition. Instead you should look at why Independence Day (specifically, not Partition or the freedom struggle) is such a fascinating topic for writers and artists.

Reply Removed such indiscriminate list of names. Please have a look.--Dwaipayan (talk) 15:27, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you.—indopug (talk) 16:18, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• Accuracy: "birth as a sovereign nation" - is this really accurate? India, nominally at least, was still just a Dominion, and the Queen its head of state.

Fixed this myself in the lead.—indopug (talk) 16:18, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

• Prose: not the best, but definitely improvable. But this can be looked at once the article is there structurally and comprehensiveness-wise.—indopug (talk) 12:41, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Initial Reply Thanks a lot Indopug for your comments. As I am busy this weekend, I will work on your suggestions and reply in detail from Monday/Tuesday. Thanks again. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 19:12, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your effort with this important article. Replied to a few of your points above for now; will try to give a thorough section-by-section review starting tomorrow. In the meantime, I suggest trying to get more reviewers (also, alert Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics about this FAC).—indopug (talk) 16:18, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Oppose, 1a. It's got legs, but needs a thorough, careful run-through by a word-nerd. Just had a look at the lead:

• Optional comma after "disobedience" ... up to you.

Did not add the comma.

• Please: wherein, hereafter, abovementioned, hitherto, hereupon ... these do not belong in modern English. Here, use "in which".

Removed the archaic use of wherein.

• Deictics required: the Dominion of India; the Republic of India), et al.

Have added. Will comb through the article in case we have done the same mistake elsewhere.

• "the partition was stricken with violent communal riots"—stricken is too strong in the wrong way, so we wonder for a moment whether the partition survived the riots and went ahead: it did. So "was accompanied by" would be better.

Done.

• Remove "then" ... the sequence is obvious.

Done.

• This list is problematic in a number of ways: "Indian citizens celebrate the day by displaying the national flag on their attire, accessories, homes and vehicles, flying kites, listening to patriotic songs, watching patriotic movies, and bonding with family and friends." Do we need "the day", which clangs a bit with "disPLAYing", and isn't really necessary in the context you've set up. Now, the first four items are about displaying the flag on things, yes? Then we get to quite different constructs ... so "... vehicles; and by flying ...". It's really two big items, each of several sub-items. Do you need "citizens"? Unsure ... but if you want, "Indians celebrate ...", since it's already a long sentence. Up to you.

This list has been problematic since the beginning! Thank you for guiding us. Please have a look at the list now, "Indians celebrate the day by displaying the national flag on their attire, accessories, homes and vehicles; by listening to patriotic songs, watching patriotic movies; and bonding with family and friends.". How does it sound? Do we need to change anything in "by listening to patriotic songs, watching patriotic movies" segment?

• Not happy having to link to the article on bandh to learn what it means. Do link it, but is it possible to explain it in just a few words in the main sentence? "... declared bandh, a strategy of civil disobedience, and ..."?

Replaced bandh with strikes.

• "Several books and films feature the independence and partition in their narrative."—I'd be gobsmacked if they weren't featured in books and films. This seems too obvious to put in the lead, as though you're mentioning it here to summarise the article. A lead isn't a summary like that, but functions as an overview and introduction for readers.

I am so happy you brought this! We had to add this sentence for the sake of summary. There are reviewers who ask for summary in the anatomical sense, that the lead should have summary of major sections. I'd be very glad to remove this sentence from the lead, if nobody disagrees.

Spot-checks, further down:

• "In February 1947, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom Clement Attlee announced that the British government would grant full self-governance to British India by June 1948 at the latest." (and please no secondary link for PM ... that's in the Atlee article. (But "viceroy" is unfamiliar, and might be reasonable as a direct link from this article.)

Done.

• the royal assent.

Done.

• where the new border lines divided -> where the borders divided

Done.

• Gandhi decided to stay in Calcutta and help mitigate the communal carnage -> Gandhi stayed in Calcutta in an attempt to stem the communal carnage

Done.

• Again, the Dominion of India.

Done (sorry for these silly mistakes)

• first prime minister ... lower case, please. Generic, not a specific title here.

Done. Done the same in other instances.

• "Between 1930 and 1947, 26 January was observed as the Independence Day of India as it carried symbolic value to the Congress.[15][16] The celebration of 26 January as the Independence Day was marked by meetings where the attendants took the "pledge of independence"." Not quite sure I comprehend the "as it carried symbolic value" ... why? Is it in the second sentence? If so, it's unclear. And let's rejig the word order to avoid 1947, 26. "As" is dangerous in English; does it mean "because/since", or "at the same time as"?

The day carried symbolic value because in 1930, 26 January was declared as the Independence Day after the Purna Swaraj declaration. This was discussed in the History section. I have now changed the sentence to remind the reader about that: "Following the Purna Swaraj (Declaration of the Independence of India) promulgation in 1929, the Congress observed 26 January as the Independence Day between 1930 and 1947". Is it more explanatory now?

• Space after the ellipsis points. And then before them in the next one. Actually, you can probably remove both: does the reader need to know here? And a point is required after the closing quotes.

Added non-breaking space after the ellipsis. Removed the second one.

• "in the country" ... sounds like country vs urban areas. Safer "throughout the country".

Done

• Two subset items? "In some cities, such as Delhi". Better "In cities such as Delhi", or "In Delhi and other cities,"

Done.

Tony (talk) 07:50, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Reply Thanks a lot for the review. If you have time and have interest, can you be that word-nerd you mentioned ? One plus-point is the article is not too large, it won't take much time for you! Thank you for using one sentence from this article in your ambiguity spotting exercise.--Dwaipayan (talk) 16:17, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

All lovely changes you've made. The ambiguity exercises are hardly started, and are supposed to be a secret. Please wait. Tony (talk) 03:59, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.