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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Hurricane Hector (2018)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 26 October 2020 [1].

Hurricane Hector (2018) edit

Nominator(s): NoahTalk 17:25, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Hurricane Hector... While not an impactful storm in any manner, it did pose a threat to Hawaii when its track was unknown. Hector was the longest-lived storm of the season and broke intensity records. NoahTalk 17:25, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Lee Vilenski edit

I may end up claiming points towards the wikicup. Hope you don't mind! :P

I'll take a look at this article, and give some comments on how it meets the FA criteria in a little while. If you fancy doing some QPQ, I have a list of items that can be looked at here. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:19, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • I can't split it per rules on lead size, but I can move two sentences down to the second para. NoahTalk 12:52, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's not exactly true... Ledes shouldn't be more than four paragraphs, there are some guildelines about lengths, but they aren't that specific. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:14, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It does list specific article sizes for 1-2, 3, and 4 paragraphs. I think it is better now since I made paras 1-2 about the same size. NoahTalk 15:32, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is more of a rule of thumb than a guideline, but w/e. Fine now it's less ridiculous Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Done... I may have accidentally deleted the original. NoahTalk 12:52, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is one citation in the lede, can we move it to the body? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:11, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Similar to the other storm, this is just being used as a source for a sentence introducing the topic (at least the first half of it does) and relating it to the season. NoahTalk 12:52, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The eighth named storm, fourth hurricane, and third major hurricane of the 2018 Pacific hurricane season,[1] Hector originated from a disturbance that was located north of South America on July 22. - could be split into two sentencesBest Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:11, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • As the first part is much larger than what is at Vicente, I split it. NoahTalk 12:52, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It gradually organized - how does a natural event become organised? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:11, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Generally, thunderstorms group together rather than have individual bursts, winds increase a little, and the pressure drops a bit. The NHC doesn't make mention of this as it is minor compared to what happens later. NoahTalk 10:55, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The rest of the sentence says it allowed the storm to rapidly intensify. NoahTalk 10:55, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Hurricanehink edit

  • I'm not a fan of "long-lived", since hurricanes aren't alive. Could you reword in the opening sentence?
  • Changed to long-lasting. NoahTalk 20:37, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could you link "named storm" and include a note or some explanation for what a major hurricane is?
  • You never really describe what a "disturbance" is. I get it that it wasn't a tropical wave, but I'd like some more specific wording and less jargon
  • As the NHC doesnt specifically mention what it was as the origins were difficult to ascertain, I will add a note with a dumbed-down version of the definition for tropical disturbance. NoahTalk 20:37, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could you link or explain what the "Big Island" is? You link it on its second usage.
  • Moved to the first usage. NoahTalk 13:47, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "It fell below major hurricane intensity around 18:00 UTC on August 11 after spending a record 186 hours at that intensity." - is that a worldwide record or basin one?
  • Maybe add the latitude markers for where the CPAC and WPAC are in the lead? You made a point about the three NPAC basins
  • Added 140W, but I already mentioned the IDL. NoahTalk 13:47, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there another way to describe "convective activity" to the layman?
  • Thunderstorm?
  • How can a system "strengthened into a tropical depression"? Why not "developed into"? Also, is it worth adding that it was TD 10E?
  • "After strengthening into a tropical storm, increasing easterly wind shear caused..." - the shear strengthened into a tropical storm?
  • "Soon after" - IDK how well this works starting a brand new section (which you do twice!)
  • "At the same time, the storm continued to track westward." - you ended the previous section with "continued to travel due west", so I'm not sure this is needed again
  • "About six hours later, a 53rd Weather Reconnaissance Squadron plane recorded a stepped frequency microwave radiometer (SFMR) wind speed of 158 mph (254 km/h) as it surveyed the cyclone." - was this a gust?
  • All CPHC discusses is SFMR surface winds. They do not explicitly state whether it is a sustained wind or a gust. NoahTalk 14:06, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "As Hector approached Hawaii, mid-level dry air, low ocean heat content, and 81 °F (27 °C) sea surface temperatures caused the weakening trend to continue." - the sentence structure got confusing after you said "mid-level dry air" and it turned into a list. Avoid using lists of three items right after you used a phrase like "As Hector approached Hawaii", which would naturally be followed with what the storm did; in this case, weaken.
  • " Hector weakened into a low-end Category 3 hurricane as it passed south of the Big Island on August 8." - how far south?
  • Added the measurement CPHC listed for where winds were recorded; they did say Hector was at its closest point during the afternoon which matches up with that location. NoahTalk 14:27, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Many remained in temporary tent structures that could not withstand a hurricane; however, plans were made to relocate people to sturdier structures." - what happened with these plans?
  • I can't find anything about what happened to these plans. The watches and warnings were discontinued, but that is all I see discussed in detail in news sources. NoahTalk 14:06, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "All absentee walk-in voting sites, as well as, Whittington, Punaluu, and Milolii Beach Parks in Hawaii County were closed on August 8 as the hurricane passed south of the island." - this could've been stronger
  • "Hector began to rapidly weaken soon after as wind shear increased to a high 35 mph (55 km/h)." - I'd end with "as wind shear increased further to 35 mph", as the current wording is odd
  • Is the subtropical transition worth mentioning in the lead? That's a semi important status change for a TC.
  • I didn't mention it because it is an unofficial status given by the JTWC. NoahTalk 20:37, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All in all it's a fine article. Some of the wording just needs to be spiffied up, and a few things reworded. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:24, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Hurricanehink:I should have addressed everything. I wish the CPHC would have put more into certain aspects of their TCRs as they did neglect them quite a bit (more evident on other storms). NoahTalk 14:27, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Happy to support! Thanks for the quick fixes. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review—pass edit

All images are freely licensed (t · c) buidhe 21:36, 20 September 2020 (UTC

Support by JavaHurricane edit

Will do. JavaHurricane 04:25, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • "degradating" in the last line of the second MH section.
  • "it had the highest accumulated cyclone energy since 1994's Hurricane John." Which basin?
  • Added a little bit on it. NoahTalk 10:41, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No issues otherwise. Excellent article. JavaHurricane 04:36, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - Pass edit

Doing now Aza24 (talk) 23:41, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Er in like half an hour irl issue distracting me... Aza24 (talk) 23:49, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Retrieval date for ref 2?
  • ref 30 missing author
  • These are very minor things and reliability looks good so I'm give a preemptive pass for source review, with the expectation that these issues are addressed. Aza24 (talk) 00:59, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The issues should be fixed now. NoahTalk 02:08, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please put NBSPs between Category and the number (Category 4) in prose. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:19, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Should be done (for much more than that). NoahTalk 10:52, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @WP:FAC coordinators: Hey, I just wanted to know how this is progressing since the SR was conducted over two weeks ago. Is any more commentary needed? NoahTalk 19:23, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I haven't look in depth but at a glance I'd say more substantial review is needed. I've added it to the Urgents list to see if we can attract some more participation. --Laser brain (talk) 13:05, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I will look in ... pls pester my talk if I have forgotten by tomorrow. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Laser brain: Would it be okay for me to nominate another article relatively soon? NoahTalk 18:46, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Sure, go ahead. I don't think there's much else to do here. --Laser brain (talk) 13:04, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mike Christie edit

I've copyedit; please revert anything you disagree with.

  • I had no idea what "all three North Pacific basins" meant and had to dig around till I found Pacific hurricane, which explained it. I assumed it was a geographical division, but it appears to be purely administrative. I don't think this needs to be in the lead; if you think it's notable I would suggest finding a way to explain it inline to someone like me whose knowledge of hurricanes is restricted to having reviewed a few FACs.
  • I just changed it to the Pacific Ocean so it is easy to understand. NoahTalk 18:36, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Per this discussion I think you should get the months and year into the first sentence.
  • Added late July and August to the first sentence. NoahTalk 18:36, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hector restrengthened into a tropical around 18:00 UTC on August 14: looks like a word missing after "tropical"; I think it must be "storm".

These are all minor points and I expect to support. It's rather a technical article, since it has almost no impact on land, so there's not much to talk about except the meteorological details; I don't think it's all that engaging as a result, but that's not anyone's fault. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:39, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've struck the points above. Just noticed the Twitter source in the references; I assume this is an acknowledged expert. I don't think I've ever seen Twitter used as a source; can you point me to whatever policy or discussion covers this case? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:25, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:SPS and WP:TWITTER cover how this can be used as an acceptable source. this is his Colorado State University page. NoahTalk 19:31, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I remember now; thanks for the pointer. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:57, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:57, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

SG comments (Support) edit

  • Hector reached Category 3 status by 00:00 UTC on August 4 and went through an eyewall replacement cycle soon after, which caused the intensification to halt. Upon completion, the cyclone continued to organize, developing a well-defined eye surrounded by cold cloud-tops. I think that's a dangling modifier? It was the replacement cycle that completed, not the cyclone? How about ...
    After the replacement cycle, the cyclone continued to organize, developing a well-defined eye surrounded by cold cloud-tops.
    We have the article cloud top. Why is it not linked, and why is it referred to here as cloud-top? Are they different things?
  • Changed, linked, and removed hyphens... I don't know why I hyphenated that, but it has been fixed across the whole article. NoahTalk 21:22, 24 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Long sentence alert ... too many clauses :) Hector crossed the 140th meridian west, entering the central Pacific Ocean early on August 6 as a Category 4 hurricane and reaching its peak intensity around 18:00 UTC that day, with winds of 155 mph (250 km/h) and a pressure of 936 mbar (27.64 inHg). I suggest breaking with "It reached its peak intensity ... "
  • It fell below major hurricane intensity around 18:00 UTC on August 11 after spending 186 hours at that intensity – longer than any hurricane in the eastern Pacific basin. This is more labored than necessary, but I'm unsure how to fix it ... does this work?
    Hector spent 186 hours as a major hurricane – longer than any hurricane in the eastern Pacific (ever or just that season?). At around 18:00 UTC on August 11, it fell below major hurricane intensity.
  • Just a personal preference, feel free to ignore if you disagree, but I don't see why the overview that is supposed to be a lead has to include the time detail; they seem to be an excess burden on the reader, when that detail is in the article, and we could just give dates. To lessen the effect of too much data to absorb in the lead.
  • I would still have to give some indication of time for events, especially ones that occur directly after another. It would be easier for the reader to see times rather than "in the middle of the day" or "later on that day" each time. NoahTalk 21:22, 24 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • While Hector did not make landfall, its close approach warranted the issuance of tropical storm watches and warnings for the Big Island, as well as tropical storm watches for the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands. Again, more labored than necessary. How about ...
    Hector did not make landfall, but as it approached, tropical storm watches and warnings were issued for the Big Island, as well as tropical storm watches for the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands.
  • Done, but I added Hawaii so it is clear what the storm was approaching. NoahTalk 21:22, 24 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overall, the impact on land from the storm was minimal. The "overall" seems redundant, and would this sentence be better placed at the start of the paragraph?
  • I think we need the word "northern" over South America here ... while traveling westward over South America ... that is, presumably Venezuela and Colombia, although unstated. I don't think it dipped down to Peru or Ecuador did it? :)

That's it for me, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:27, 24 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

How does that look? NoahTalk 21:22, 24 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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