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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/God of War (2018 video game)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 6 September 2019 [1].

God of War (2018 video game) edit

Nominator(s): JDC808 ♫ 16:29, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the 2018 video game, God of War, the most recent installment in this popular PlayStation franchise. A lot of work has been put into this article since it was first announced about three years ago. The game ended up revitalizing the series, becoming one of the best PlayStation 4 games, and one of the best games of 2018 (regardless of platform), winning numerous Game of the Year awards. It was promoted to GA this past November and just received a copy-edit from the Guild of Copy Editors. I was going to nominate this sooner, but have been busy with my graduate school work (which I am now done with), and also had to wait for someone to accept the copy-edit request. JDC808 ♫ 16:29, 26 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • Don't used fixed px size
I have never heard that before. There a reason for this? Not using the fixed size makes that image (gif) very tiny. --JDC808 ♫ 09:50, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
See MOS:IMAGESIZE. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:14, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Replaced fixed px size with the preferred |upright=scaling factor. --JDC808 ♫ 19:38, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alt text should not duplicate captions so extensively - see WP:ALT for guidance
Copy-editor added the alt text. I've edited it to shorten down the text. --JDC808 ♫ 09:50, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • FUR for File:God_of_War_(2018)_Leviathan_Axe_gameplay.gif needs completion and expansion. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:23, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Done. --JDC808 ♫ 09:50, 28 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator notes edit

This has dropped into the "Older" section without any substantial prose review. It will be archived soon if it does not begin to receive some attention. --Laser brain (talk) 12:44, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm planning on posting a review tomorrow. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 16:26, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Aoba47 edit

  • Is the word "console" really necessary for this part (Released on April 20, 2018, for the PlayStation 4 (PS4) console)? If it is to help an unfamiliar reader, then a wikilink to the home video game console article would probably be helpful.
    • Just standard practice. Removed.
  • I do not understand this part (the player may passively control him). The previous part of that sentence makes it clear that Kratos is the only playable character so this makes me even more confused on what "passively control" means.
    • You only play as Kratos, but if you press a button (explained in gameplay section), Atreus will shoot an arrow at where the camera is pointed.
      • I understand that point in the gameplay section, but I am not sure if that point is clear in the lead; however, it is nothing major, and I will leave it up to other reviewers to decide. Aoba47 (talk) 20:07, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am uncertain about the wikilinks to A Call from the Wilds and the prequel comic series in the lead since it goes to sections in this article.
    • It's to take the reader directly to those respective sections since those don't have their own articles (yet for the comic, which is forthcoming). MOS:SECTIONLINKS.
      • It just seems odd to me. Thank you for the link in the MOS about it. Aoba47 (talk) 20:07, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • For this sentence (The game is open, but it is not open world.), does the source provide any further information on this distinction?
    • No. All this is saying is that although it has an element of being open world, it is not a full-fledged open world game.
      • Thank you for the clarification; I was just curious about this point. Aoba47 (talk) 20:16, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have a comment for this part (Due to its openness, a fast travel feature is unlocked later in the game). If read literally, then the dependent clause "due to its openness" is describing the subject, "a fast travel feature", and that is not correct.
    • This comes off of the previous sentence; "its" is referring to the game. Together, its "The game is open, but it is not open world. Due to its openness, a fast travel feature is unlocked later in the game."
      • It still do not believe it is grammatically correct as the "its openness" can be still be read as referring to the "a fast travel feature" part, but I will not press it further. I believe a majority of readers will understand it from the context, but this is a note I have received in the past during FACs and GANs so I thought it was something worth raising. Aoba47 (talk) 20:16, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am a little confused by this part (The gameplay is vastly different from previous games, as it was completely rebuilt). I do not think of "gameplay" as being "rebuilt". I more often see "rebuilt" attached to sentences about game engines than actual gameplay. I could be mistaken, but I thought it was something worth bringing up.
    • It goes towards both. This is the language used in the sources.
      • Thank you for the clarification. Aoba47 (talk) 20:16, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have a question about this part (Just like Kratos, Atreus acquires new skills, armor, special arrows, such as lightning arrows, and runic attacks for his Talon Bow, which has only one slot instead of two.). I do not see anything about Kratos using a bow so I do not believe the "Just like Kratos" part applies to Atreus acquiring special arrows.
    • This was meant to say that Atreus also acquires new stuff. Reworded.
  • For this part (and his young son Atreus), I am not sure "young" is really needed. It is a little vague as "young" could refer to quite a wide range of different ages.
    • I feel it is important to note that he is young as the game does not explicitly state his age.
      • Understood. Just thought it was somewhat vague, but I think a reader can understand what is meant by looking at the game's cover art and the rest of the article. Aoba47 (talk) 20:16, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • God of War (franchise) is wikilinked twice in the body of the article. Same for Norway and camera cuts.
    • Fixed.
  • For this part (The end of the demo showed the title God of War and confirmed it was in development for the PlayStation 4.), the references should be in numeric order. There are a few other instances of this so I would double-check the article to fix it.
    • Is this actually a standard? I have never come across this if so. Seems like a non-issue as references get placed and moved around as the article is developed and thus results in some numerical misordering.
      • I have always been told during FACs and GANs to keep references in numerical order so I was passing along that same note. Aoba47 (talk) 20:23, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • PlayStation 4 should be wikilinked in the body of the article. I would also be consistent with either using PlayStation 4 or PS4 in the body of the article. It alternates between both. The same comment applies for PlayStation 4 Pro and PS4 Pro.
    • Fixed.
  • For this part (During E3 2016, GameSpot mistakenly reported that), GameSpot should be in italics.
    • Fixed.
  • For this part (and negatively criticized), I do not believe "negatively" is needed as it is already clear from the word "criticized".
    • I removed, but criticism can also be positive.
      • Criticism can be positive, but I have not seen the verb criticized used in a positive context. Whenever I read that something is criticized, it is normally meaning that a flaw is being pointed out. Aoba47 (talk) 20:06, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have a comment for this part (noting the seamless nature of the game shifting from cinematic back to the gameplay). Both cinematic and gameplay have been referenced in earlier parts of the article so the link should be moved up to their first instances.

Great work with the article. I hope that it gets more attention in the near future. I have never played this game, or any installment in this franchise, so apologies for missing anything obvious. I hope my comments are helpful; once they are addressed, I will support this for promotion. Aoba47 (talk) 03:03, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you for the responses. While I respectfully disagree on certain issues, they are not anything major; I support this for promotion. Aoba47 (talk) 20:16, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you! If the points of disagreement are brought up by other reviewers, then they will be further addressed. --JDC808 ♫ 20:35, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am glad that I could help. I could just be over-thinking it tbh. Hope you have a good rest of your weekend! Aoba47 (talk) 21:38, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from TheAwesomeHwyh edit

I took a look at the article and heres some of my thoughts, a caveat being I've never even played the game or watched a let's play. (Also, this is my first ever time reviewing a FAC so don't kill me!):

  • The gif of Kratos throwing his axe doesn't have alt text.
    • It does, unless it's not showing up for some reason.
      • I managed to fix it- not sure why it broke in the first place. TheAwesomeHwyh 05:53, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article mentions that some of the creatures were corrupted by Seiðr, however the article isn't clear on what that even means. It links to the article on Seiðr but that's not much help either. Maybe it would be better if it just said dark magic?
    • That's the only mention in the article (which is sourced). The article on Seiðr says it's "a type of sorcery" and "a form of magic". Dark magic might work, but I don't feel that would be appropriate or correct.
  • Since Hacksilver is a currency, shouldn't the sentence "players find chests containing random items, like Hacksilver and enchantments [...]" be "players find chests containing random items and currency, like Hacksilver and enchantments [...]"?
    • Reworded as "Throughout the game world, players find chests containing random items, such as enchantments for improving armor and weapons, as well as the Hacksilver currency."
  • Unless I misunderstand the text or the game's lore, shouldn't "each realm is a different world, they exist simultaneously in the same space" be "each realm is a different world, they exist simultaneously in the same universe"? "Same space" implies to me that they take place in the exact same physical position, which doesn't make much sense.
  • I might've missed it, but I don't think the article ever mentions how you get access to the secret ending.
    • It doesn't, and it's not going to. That's not something we should really explain (but if you really want to know, after returning to Midgard, you just go back to their house. There's no quest or anything, only a brief mention by either Kratos or Atreus saying something like "let's go home").
  • Perhaps a low-rez version of one of the peices of concept art would be a good idea for the development section.
    • Perhaps, but there's already two non-free images on the article.
  • The "deliberately" in "Barlog said the game was deliberately titled God of War [...]" isn't needed. How would one accidentaly title a video game?
    • I disagree. Deliberately means intentionally. He specifically wanted the title to just be "God of War".
  • The sentence "carvings of the Huldra Brothers, a horse, and a troll [...]" should probably just be "carvings of the Huldra Brothers, a horse, a troll [...]" since the list countinues further. I'm not actualy sure if thats grammaticly correct, though.
    • It would be incorrect to what follows, because "carvings" (2-inch carvings to be exact) is only referring to those three (the Huldra Brothers, horse, and troll), not the stuff that follows "troll".
  • Only some company names are italicized in the "accolades" section. Is there any reason for that?
    • Some are magazines, some are award shows, some are websites; however, in you bringing this up, I noticed that there were a couple that needed to be italicized that weren't. --JDC808 ♫ 05:42, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Overall, the article looks good and I suppport the article for promotion. I have not looked at the sources. TheAwesomeHwyh 04:13, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Er, I mean I would support it once these concerns are fixed. TheAwesomeHwyh 04:16, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the comments, I support this article for promotion. TheAwesomeHwyh 05:54, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! --JDC808 ♫ 05:55, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Initial oppose by David Fuchs edit

This is a pretty long article, so I want to give it a proper read, but some initial thoughts follow, and I'm opposing for now. I wanted to do a full prose and ref review this weekend, but life and travel intruded, so I'll get that up this week. Sorry for the delay.

  • General:
    • Some of this is just personal preference, but from an accessibility standpoint I'm generally wary of game articles that frame things in terms of previous games with words like "Unlike previous games" and "for the first time in the series", "Although the previous main installment", etc. The end result is there's a lot of language that impedes the flow and is distracting from the subject of the article, which isn't those other games but this one. I would look to critically evaluating all these sorts of statements and consider where they're relevant to include.
      • I disagree. Perhaps it can be done better, but this is a new entry in the series that changed many known things from the previous games. --JDC808 ♫ 21:58, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm not really seeing the justification for the novelization section being more than a paragraph or even a line or two; it mostly exists to detail differences between it and the game, and these are almost all cited to a primary source.
      • Don't see the primary source being an issue. It's much like the plot section (which doesn't even require sourcing). The detail here was actually something that was suggested back when doing God of War II's FAC as at the time of its review, it was only what you're suggesting here. --JDC808 ♫ 21:58, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • God of War also uses an over-the-shoulder free camera, with the game in one shot, as opposed to the fixed cinematic camera of the previous entries. I think this is a bit confusing, as I have no idea what the "fixed cinematic camera" of the previous entries means in contrast to an over-the-shoulder one, and "the game in one shot" seems like a really bad way of expressing (what I think given the link, and later in prose) should be described as continuous gameplay and cinematics without cuts.
      • I'm going to work on rewording this (but that is a purpose of the link; to explain what it means). --JDC808 ♫ 21:58, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • I think my major issue with the article as it stands is that it's creeping over the threshold from "comprehensive" into hitting length issues with summary style (crit. 4). There's a lot of material, particularly in the development section, that feels like it was added when the game was in development and never refactored for importance after it came out; why are there three sentences about an untrue rumor about the kid's name? Why is it important that we know exactly when players heard about his name first?
        • I completely disagree on this point as I have been meticulous on this. I'm going to rework this though as there is some information that I have forgotten to add that gives some justification for the inclusion of the rumored name. --JDC808 ♫ 21:58, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Issues with taking three sentences to say what one could feels like an endemic issue; for example, He was also chosen because of the chemistry with his then-10-year-old co-star, Sunny Suljic, who plays Kratos' son Atreus; Suljic's opinion was also sought in making the decision, and out of all the auditions, he liked Judge the most. The two bonded well, and Judge described his time with Suljic as time he had missed with his own children. We've already been told who Suljic is and who he plays, and we spend two sentences stuck awkwardly with a semicolon to another sentence talking about how he liked Judge. We could say say Suljic, whose opinion was sought in the casting decision, liked Judge the most out of all the auditions. or similar.
        • We've only been told who Suljic is by way of parenthesis, but it had never been explicitly stated until this point. Will rework though. --JDC808 ♫ 21:58, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • The reception section feels overstuffed, relying too much on quotes rather than summarizing critic reactions. In a sample paragraph, there's no less than six direct quotes in five sentences, and this is all for one reviewer's thoughts about the combat system. I'm not sure why Plessas from EGM specifically is so heavily used in the article; he literally is the lead critic referenced in every paragraph save one in the whole of the section.
        • There was no intention to make Plessas the "lead critic". When working on developing this section, his was just the first one up that I was pulling from. Will work on quotes issue. --JDC808 ♫ 21:58, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • The plot section alone is nearly 800 words, and I'm not sure it justifies that length. There's also details in the setting and characters section that are literally not necessary to understand the plot (Týr, for example, is only mentioned in the setting), so you're just throwing more proper names at readers. Likewise you repeat details from one section to another (the characters section tells us Freya is the Witch of the Woods, but the plot section has it explained that they are one and the same again.) I'd recommend stripping out as many minor characters if at all possible, and if they're necessary but not repeated often, only introducing them in the plot section where they're useful.
        • Disagree on this. Each point is meticulously put there and connects to the article in some way. For example, the mention of Tyr. In the Development section, Barlog states that game alludes to other mythologies coexisting. The mention of Tyr is exactly that. In regard to Freya, you're overlooking or just not reading clearly what's going on. Yes, the Characters section explains who she is (the goddess and the witch). The plot section is stating when Kratos and Atreus find out that the Witch of the Woods is Freya. Reworded this some. --JDC808 ♫ 21:58, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Images:
    • While I'm not opposed to moving images, either from a pragmatic standpoint or NFCC concerns (I'm pretty sure I pioneered non-free video in FAs back in the day), I'm not sold on File:God of War (2018) Leviathan Axe gameplay.gif from said pragmatic or NFCC standpoints. The jerky frame rate does not give a good indication of what the hell is going on, and the badly compressed GIF (with an unnecessary, large black border around it) results in a very muddy, hard to read image sequence that's not really using the extra frames much better than a single, quality image. Reading through the reception section, it seems like details like the camera, NPC interplay, and use of the axe for puzzle-solving are better targets for a non-free image.
      • Unless you have even slower internet than myself, it's pretty easy to see that Kratos is throwing his axe at an enemy and freezing it. Higher quality would make the file too large to upload. --JDC808 ♫ 21:58, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Other images appropriately licensed and tagged.
      • Just an FYI, an Image Review had already been done and addressed (was the first thing this FAC received). --JDC808 ♫ 21:58, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sources:
    • There's a few sources that are missing publisher info, archive URLs, or some other conspicuous field, currently refs such as 107, 108, 111, 112, 113, 117, etc.
      • Fixed those that it would apply to (for a few, the work and publisher are the same). Working on archiving those that aren't. Many of these sources for the awards were added by other editors and I admittedly didn't double check their formatting. --JDC808 ♫ 21:58, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't think Hardcore Gamer is prominent enough to be included in the list of GOTY awards; for that matter, NeoGAF's awards (which are user-generated) definitely shouldn't be, even if the forum itself is notable.
    • Otherwise, references used all look like reliable and generally high-quality industry press or mainstream press sources.
    • Spot check forthcoming.
    • Spot check of sources::
      • Spot-checked statements attributed to current refs 6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 14, 19 in the gameplay section only.
        • I'm not going to bother trying to thoroughly check statements attributed to entire 30-something minute videos. These really need temporal citations, either in the template or using {{rp}}.
        • Ref 6 doesn't cite It features an over-the-shoulder free camera, a departure from the previous installments, which featured a fixed cinematic camera (with the exception of 2007's two-dimensional side-scroller Betrayal).
        • Unlike previous games, which allowed players to jump freely at anytime, jumping can now only be done at designated areas, such as at a rockface or ledge. is uncited.
        • Ref 11 does not cite Throughout the game, players battle Norse mythological foes, like dark elves, wulvers, and is using a video to cite the existence of an enemy type when the video is basically a wordless hype trailer. The same follows for ref 12.
        • Valkyries appear as optional boss battles. Apparently uncited.
        • Refs 9 and 13 don't seem to adequately cite Among the many side quests, players can free the imprisoned dragons Fáfnir, Otr, and Reginn—dwarfs who were turned into dragons—in addition to battling one called Hræzlyr, a story-based boss battle.
        • Ref 8 doesn't cite The player controls the character Kratos in combo-based combat and puzzle game elements.
        • Ref 14 doesn't give the dual chain blades' name.
        • Ref 19 doesn't adequately source There are crafting resources for the player to find that allows them to create new or upgrade existing armor with better perks.
        • There's a lot of citations to Ref 20 here, which is an offline source I don't have access to, but given the apparent problems with just the gameplay section above,I'm concerned similar liberties are being taken with the sourcing there. I'm opposing on 1c grounds. The entire article should be rechecked to make sure things are matching up with their citations. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 03:00, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
All of these are covered by the citations. It may be true that a couple of small things slipped through the cracks, but I would not be so careless for this many things (my track record with the previous articles on this series would prove that). Just to make sure, I will double check. --JDC808 ♫ 03:26, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

--Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 13:44, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Will start looking through this tomorrow, but I have disagreements. --JDC808 ♫ 05:45, 20 August 2019 (UTC) [reply]

Sorry, real life has been stressful the past couple of days and this was gonna make me more stressed. I will have these addressed over the next couple of days. --JDC808 ♫ 05:33, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comment - This has been open for well over a month and doesn't seem anywhere near consensus for promotion. Therefore, I will be archiving it shortly and it may be re-nominated after the customary two-week waiting period. In the mean time, please action feedback as appropriate. --Laser brain (talk) 12:19, 6 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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