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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Final Fantasy

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 05:53, 4 December 2007.

Final Fantasy

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I and other editors have been cleaning up the Final Fantasy article over the past month. It just passed GA and after addressing issues raised during the GAN, we feel that it is also ready for FA. Any comments and suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you. (Guyinblack25 talk 15:56, 8 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]

The prose doesn't seem great from looking at the lead, shown by the line "The games also feature many similar gameplay elements." Similar to what? Isn't "also" redundant? Ashnard Talk Contribs 17:13, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That sentence has been tweaked. Do you have any other comments or suggestions? (Guyinblack25 talk 17:22, 8 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
Well, I never usually do this, but I'll actually read the whole article and report back after I've read it all. If I can't find any problems, I'll cast my first ever vote in a FAC!! Ashnard Talk Contribs 17:33, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"the series is well known for its visuals, music, innovation, and use of technology"—well known by whom: gamers, non-gamers or the whole world? How can well-known be defined, it's so broad in its interpretation? Ashnard Talk Contribs 17:39, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'll look into this above statement and wait for you full critique. (Guyinblack25 talk 17:58, 8 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
Deckiller has addressed this. The citations listed for the statement convey that information. (Guyinblack25 talk 16:08, 12 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
  • "Final Fantasy XI and XII, battles screens have been omitted by having battle sequences occur on the main field screen"—a reference is provided, but there's no mention of why this happened.

I'm not sure about this one, so don't take my word as sensible advice. "There have been several different types of minigames in Final Fantasy." I realise that you're trying to minimise the content, but why not give a brief summary of different types of minigames eventhough you're linking to the main article.

  • "The experience points are normally accumulated in battle"—either give an example of times when experience isn't gained by battle, or change "normally" to "always".

I've got homework to do, so I'll probably add more comments tomorrow. Thanks. Ashnard Talk Contribs 18:05, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Critique resumed:

  • I've stated this before, but not happy about the compliation of games section. Try to recah consensus about what should be done, because a list of bullet points doesn't represent Wikipedia's best to me. Perhaps a table, like in Fire Emblem or in Wild Arms series.
  • On a similar note, each of the game's summaries mention the storyline—wouldn't it be preferable to mention notable changes or new notability they lent to the series?
  • The "Music" section needs more references. Especially statements like "The international popularity of video game music began to surge with the success of the Final Fantasy series"
  • "In nearly all Final Fantasy games, the most important characters and plot elements have their own theme music."—I have a feeling that conscious effort hasn't been made to investigate which don't include this feature and why. Anyway, this is statement actually true?
    • In the soundtrack listings of most of the games, there are often tracks named "'Insert main character name' theme", and not just a few, it's pretty wide spread. Certain boss fights have also had a battle theme that is different than the traditional battle theme of the game. (Guyinblack25 talk 16:08, 12 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
  • What, no section on the characters or character relationships? Hasn't there been several character articles that have spawned from the FF series? Doesn't this mean that they're notable?
    • Character relationships has kinda become a taboo for articles because the developers, especially Tetsuya Nomura, have left some details up to speculation by fans. They actually want fans talking and theorizing. Because of that, most of what could be in there would be original research. I'll add some sourced info about some well-received characters in the "Reception" section. (Guyinblack25 talk 16:08, 12 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
  • "Many assumed that it was a precursor to a new Final Fantasy title for the Nintendo 64 video game console"—who's many. Is this not a Weasel word?
  • "within it have been credited for introducing and popularizing many concepts and features that are widely used in console RPGs."—this exact line has been used twice: once in the lead and twice in the "Reception" section. I know that everything in the lead should be in the article, but word for word?
  • The "Reception" section doesn't seem to mention much about downfalls of the series, except from some quote from Edge about it going stale. What about the series in itself? Surely there are some criticisms about the nature of the series.

Well, I hope this helps. I'm undecided about whether I'll support or oppose. Ashnard Talk Contribs 19:47, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I will try to address these as soon as I can. Thank you for the input. (Guyinblack25 talk 20:00, 8 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
This sentence is factually inaccurate:
    1. In 2003, the series' first direct sequel, Final Fantasy X-2, was released.
  • Legend of the Crystal was released ages before X-2.
  • Three Final Fantasy compilations—Compilation of Final Fantasy VII, Ivalice Alliance, and Fabula Nova Crystallis Final Fantasy XIII—share many settings and themes.
  • These series definitely don't share settings, and all FF games share themes anyway; so this sentence is either totally inaccurate or too vague to be meaningful.
  • Although most Final Fantasy installments are independent, many themes and elements of gameplay recur throughout the series.
  • This contradicts what was just said above.
Other issues:
  • "Game screens" has tons of unsourced sentences
  • "Battle system" has tons of unsourced sentences, especially with the final paragraph who's totally unsourced
  • The "Music" section has a few unsourced sentences and is clearly not exhaustive as it's too much geared towards Uematsu. Only two other composers are mentioned, in passing.
  • The "History" section has a high amount of unsourced and highly challengeable sentences ("inspired by DQ", etc.); moreover, it's incomplete as the "history" which is discussed is actually just FFI and FFII. Nothing notable is said above anything past FFII.
  • An actual "Design" (not just "Character design") section which would discuss the recurring directors, battle designers, etc. of the series is missing. Hiroyuki Itou isn't even mentioned once in the entire article!
  • The "(Character) design" section just gives names and doesn't tell anything about Amano's, Nomura's, Yoshida's, etc. distinctive art styles.
  • Why is Vagrant Story mentioned? It's not even part of the series.
  • "Graphics and technology": tons of unsourced sentences.
  • "Merchandise and other media": first paragraph has only one small generic source.
  • "Anime and films" and "Literary adaptations": the last two sentences of each of these sections are unsourced.
  • "Reception": too much geared towards the US. The series was primarily designed and released for Japanese audience, yet nothing is said about Japanese reception. This is definitely not irrelevant; for instance with FFXII the designers went as far as changing the game's main character for the Japanese players' sake. That's important.
Should these issues be resolved, I would definitely change my vote for a Support. Thanks for your attention. Turd the Borg (talk) 18:53, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
These issues are currently being addressed on Talk:Final Fantasy. (Guyinblack25 talk 18:58, 19 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
I agree that the article needs additional sourcing; however, it is pointless to cite every common sense statement and reword a section that has been argued to death. In addition, the sections past Music need additional copy-editing, and I don't think I'll have the time to finish (let alone help you guys bring the article to FA status). — Deckiller 20:44, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to point out that Turd the Borg's account has been blocked, I'm guessing for being disruptive in manners similar to these. While I think some of his comments deserve attention, I recommend taking it with a grain of salt.Nimrand (talk) 23:56, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Borg's blocked because of username change. --Mika1h (talk) 23:42, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Issues brought up by Borg have been addressed, for more details see Talk:Final Fantasy#Issues with this article. (Guyinblack25 talk 04:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC))[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
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