Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ficus rubiginosa/archive1
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 13:32, 14 May 2016 [1].
Contents
Ficus rubiginosa edit
This article is about a big fig tree, which can also be a good bonsai. Anyway, I hope readers care more than a fig about it. Promise to fix problems pronto...have at it, cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:52, 16 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Image review
- File:Ficusrubiginosargemap.png: can you swap in a non-proxied version of that source link? Nikkimaria (talk) 20:59, 19 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support: All of my concerns were addressed. Thank you. Praemonitus (talk) 17:00, 23 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Here's a few observations:
"...exclusively pollinated the fig wasp species...": perhaps missing a "by"?
"The species' range spans...": this has been rendered somewhat ambiguous by the use of "species" in the prior sentence.
"The Port Jackson fig was described by French botanist René Louiche Desfontaines...": when?
Who is Dale Dixon?
"Italian botanist Guglielmo Gasparrini, breaking up the genus Ficus in 1844...": improper tense.
It would be good to be consistent about listing the nationality and profession of the persons mentioned. For example, Frederick Manson Bailey and Friedrich Anton Wilhelm Miquel.
- Should the paragraph that begins "In a study published in 2008" be placed at the end of the section to maintain chronological order? Perhaps I'm missing some subtlety?
- my thoughts were to present a chronology for taxon as whole, and then last para for various subspecific names, but I can switch if you feel it would flow better the other way...? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:13, 23 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay, I won't worry about it. Praemonitus (talk) 17:00, 23 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- my thoughts were to present a chronology for taxon as whole, and then last para for various subspecific names, but I can switch if you feel it would flow better the other way...? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:13, 23 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Technical term "hemiepiphytic" should be wikilinked.
"...monoecious — both...": looks like a spaced em-dash. See MOS:EMDASH.
What are "US Zones 10B and 11"?
One of your references has a warning tag: "Cite uses deprecated parameter |coauthors=".
Gasparrini (1844) should list the publisher (Francisci).
For consistency, "PLoS Biol" should be written out as "PLoS Biology".
Otherwise it looks good. Praemonitus (talk) 16:12, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comments by Sainsf edit
You see, I can not resist your articles. ;) Sainsf <^>Feel at home 08:44, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Lead edit
Why not link "genus" if you link "species"?
in warm climates containing around 750 species Surely the climates do not contain 750 species. Better say "in warm climates and containing around 750 species"
- tweaked now
from 4–19.3 cm (1 1⁄2–7 1⁄2 in) long and 1.25–13.2 cm (1⁄2–5 1⁄4 in) wide I think the dash should be replaced by "to"
round yellow fruit ripen and "ripens"? No, I think it should rather be "fruits", due to the "they" following it.
Link pollinated, outcrop
which may in fact comprise four cryptospecies. Why are we interested in the taxonomy of the fig wasp here? It may go into the main text, but is it needed in the lead?
- each fig species is symbiotic with one wasp species, so is significant that there are four - also I can't remove segment as incorrect to say there is one.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:27, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh, I see. No trouble then. Sainsf <^>Feel at home 11:03, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- each fig species is symbiotic with one wasp species, so is significant that there are four - also I can't remove segment as incorrect to say there is one.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:27, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
and at least 2 species "two" as per the MOS.
through to Bega Through what? Or is "through" redundant?
Taxonomy edit
from a type specimen I think "type" could be linked?
from a type specimen whose locality is documented as "New Holland". Include a citation at the end of this part.
"specific" can be linked to specific name (botany)
- That link is a redirect to Botanical name. Have linked a bit further down Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:34, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Why are the alternate common names in italics? They are typically kept in double quotes.
- See, if you look at how italics are used, about halfway down it talks about words as words, which covers the formatting well here. I'd use quote marks for sentences and italics for words Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:49, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I see. No trouble then. Sainsf <^>Feel at home 09:52, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- See, if you look at how italics are used, about halfway down it talks about words as words, which covers the formatting well here. I'd use quote marks for sentences and italics for words Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:49, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If genus is linked in lead, it should also be linked here.
into which direction the group radiated Radiated should be linked to Evolutionary radiation.
Joseph Maiden described variety lucida You have been saying "var." until now. The full word and the link to "variety" should be added at first mention.
from the nominate form I think we could have a link or explanation here.
Description edit
We need some consistency in how we refer to the plant. "Taxonomy" begins with "The Port Jackson fig", and this with "Ficus rubiginosa". Also, you say F. rubiginosa at places.
the ovate, obovate or oval-shaped Are all the three terms the same? If the 3rd one is explanatory, then we can say either ovate or obovate.
Link or explain petiole, vein, nipple, preponderance
- linked first two, "nipple" in this context just means "nipple-shaped thing", a bit like how nipple can be used for end of baby bottle and other objects. Unfortunately nipple focusses only on mammalian nipple so is misealding as a link. "preponderance" is a cumbersome way of saying "more of them". I have simplified that. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:12, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Fruit ripen throughout the year "Fruits"?
its relative the Moreton Bay fig We need a comma here
in the wild they are "wild, they"
the leaves of the Port Jackson fig Inconsistency in referring to the plant
Distribution and habitat edit
It extends westwards "The range" extends westwards?
Both forms co-occur for most of the range Better mention them by name again. It has been quite a while since Taxonomy.of f. glabrescens Not written properly.
in any given population Is "any" not a bit too sure?
Link limestone and outcrop
in Kanangra-Boyd National Park "the"
in cracks in stone in cliffs and rock faces in natural environments Such a row of "in"s! Are we missing commas?
and in brickwork on buildings and elsewhere in the urban environment Citation for this part?
well drained Dash?
They are derived from sandstone, quartzite and basalt Can have links here.
yearly rainfall of 600–1400 mm Convert.
F. rubiginosa has naturalised What is meant by "naturalised"?
- linked to Introduced species Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:20, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ecology edit
I think the bird and fox species should be arranged in the alphabetic order of their common names.
Many fruit drop onto "fruits"
Link plant cell, pupate, defoliated (Intro)
and the life cycle is around six weeks Could not fully understand this.
galls at night and wander about --> galls at night, wander about
As with all figs, the fruit is actually an inverted inflorescence known as a syconium, with tiny flowers arising from the inner surface Would be more useful under Description. Syconium by the way should be linked under Description, its first mention.
Link diverge, monophyletic, crown, bushfire (Reproduction and life span) and nematodes (Other life in the syconia)
Duplink: inflorescenced
that a F. rubiginosa trees often bore Errors?
Pleistodontes imperialis traversed Simply "P. imperialis" would do.
Cultivation edit
and also in Hawaii and California, where it is also listed as an invasive species in some areas. Add a citation for this
Tolerant of acid or alkaline soils Linking possible?
Link or explain canopy, aerial layering
It is a chimera that is lacking in chlorophyll in the second layer of the leaf meristem Meristem is a duplink. "that is" may be redundant
generally have more green "are", not "have"
it is extremely forgiving to work with What does that mean? "Extremely" could be too strong
That should be all. Sainsf <^>Feel at home 09:16, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks Casliber. I see no more issues with this beautiful article. So, Support. Sainsf <^>Feel at home 09:47, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comments by FunkMonk edit
- I'll review this more in depth soon, some preliminary comments below. FunkMonk (talk) 10:40, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Not sure that the standards are, but I'd expect showing an entire tree in the infobox?
- Could the foliage photo under Cultivation be right aligned? It looks a bit crammed on the left side with the other image, and also interferes with the ref list.
- "n searching for the type specimen" When?
- "All these taxa were found to be indistinguishable from (and hence reclassified as) F. rubiginosa." When and by who?
- "Lithophytic, hemiepiphytic" These terms are only explained in the intro, should also be explained in the article body.
- "the ovate, obovate" Explain.
- Casliber clarified above that these and a few other terms would lead to really wordy explanations, looks like we should leave a few. They are linked, at least. Sainsf <^>Feel at home 12:27, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- They were explained after my request in another FAC at least (one of the Banksia articles?), so I don't think it could hurt here. For us non-plant people, much of such text is gibberish without explanations. FunkMonk (talk) 12:39, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- It would be the best to add notes for us non-plant folks! Sainsf <^>Feel at home 12:42, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- They were explained after my request in another FAC at least (one of the Banksia articles?), so I don't think it could hurt here. For us non-plant people, much of such text is gibberish without explanations. FunkMonk (talk) 12:39, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- "long petioles." Explain.
- "inflorescence known as a syconium" Explain.
- "(damun in the Sydney language)" You don't refer to it as "Sydney language" in the article body, so the Easter-egg link is a bit confusing.
- If the species can only be pollinated by a certain species of wasp, how is it pollinated in the other parts of the world where it has naturalised (and where I assume this wasp doesn't exist)?
- "a metallic green wasp species." Why do we need physical description of a species that is uncommon on this plant, when the main pollinator isn't physically described at all?
- Could be nice to show the pollinating wasp, but I guess we don't have an available image. Or is this it:[2]
- Maybe obvious to plant-people, but how can this turn intro a big tree when growing on rocks? Where do the roots go?
- Aha, well I'm glad you asked - fig roots are incredibly vigorous and highly invasive - see thus local council report - scroll down and see the fun photos of Ficus roots wreaking havoc with sidewalk, drains etc. Ditto here or scroll down google images here. Short answer is fig roots grow..anywhere they want to. I will re-read to see if/how I can make it clearer. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:57, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- "as it is extremely forgiving to work with" Not sure what this means, and also seems like too informal/hyperbolic language.
- Banyan and Moraceae are not mentioned outside the intro.
- I nuked them - the term "banyan", even though it technically covers this one as well as the indian species, is rarely used and the information it conveys is imparted by the description of hemiepiphyte so is unneeded. The fig genus is more of a defined and notabel unit than the Moraceae family, so reverted to the former as a reference point in the lead Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:11, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- "a genus found worldwide in warm climates that contains around 750 species, including the common fig (Ficus carica)." Likewise.
- "The syconia are also home to another 14 species of wasp, some of which induce galls while others parasitise the pollinator wasps, and at least 2 species of nematode." None of these numbers are mentioned outside the intro.
- "Many species of bird, including pigeons, parrots" No parrots are mentioned in the article body.
- Support - much easier for a non-expert to understand now. FunkMonk (talk) 11:57, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ceoil edit
- It is a banyan classified as a Ficus, a genus found world wide - As somebody that doesn't remember taxonomy, this is baffling. Overall v good, though the lead is very dense like this and assumes familiarity. Would like to see wording that makes the page more accessible. Not exactly dumming down, but... explaining terms. Ceoil (talk) 21:37, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Moving to support, noting the efforts since last post, mainly re the density of the lead. Note I am a non specialist, but supporting from an interested none the less POV. Have made various, but mostly trivial edits. Ceoil (talk) 23:44, 7 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Opinions / Observation from Singora edit
Opinions / Observation Singora (talk) 14:44, 4 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
These are just notes, opinions and general comments.
- 1. "Beginning life as a seedling". Don't all trees begin life as seedlings?
- 2. "which grows on other plants (hemiepiphyte) or on rocks (lithophyte)". Would it be accurate to swap "grow" for "germinate" in order to avoid the repetition (the sentence uses "grow" twice)?
- 3. "The small round yellow fruits can ripen and turn red at any time of year" -> "Fruits are small, round and yellow, and can ..."
- 4. "four cryptospecies" + "14 species of wasp" -> 4 + 14 or four + fourteen
- 5. "Australian botanist Dale Dixon found one from the herbarium of Desfontaines at Florence Herbarium and one from the herbarium of Étienne Pierre Ventenat at Geneva" -> "Australian botanist Dale Dixon found one at the Florence Herbarium and another at the herbarium of Étienne Pierre Ventenat in Geneva". My link points to the Museo di Storia Naturale di Firenze, which includes the herbarium. What is the herbarium of Desfontaines?
- 6. "In a 2008 study published". Is this correct? I would use "In a study published in 2008"
- 7. "The trunk is buttressed and can reach 1.5 m (4 ft 11 in) in diameter, and the bark is yellow-brown" -> "The trunk is buttressed and can reach 1.5 m (4 ft 11 in) in diameter. The bark is yellow-brown"'
- 8. Monoecious re-directs to Plant reproductive morphology. Should you link the word?
- 9. "California in the United States". Do you need to mention the US? Could you link California?
- 10. "planted widely in Malta since the early 1990s but has not been observed to set fruit". What's the difference between "to fruit" and "to set fruit"?
- 11. "Many fruits drop onto the ground around the tree, though others are spread further afield by the animals that eat them" -> "Many fruits drop onto the ground around the tree, though others are dispersed by the animals that eat them"
- 12. "F. rubiginosa itself can endure cooler climates than other fig species". This and the preceding sentence end with "fig species". Could you change the latter to "than its relatives" or "than other members of the genus", etc.
- 13. "P. imperialis traversed the waters between Australia and New Zealand". Hmmmm. Traversed the waters?
- 14. "P. imperialis has been transported to Hawaii, California and Israel and is pollinating its host in those places" -> "P. imperialis has been transported to Hawaii, California and Israel, where it pollinates its host", or "where it has been observed pollinating its host" / "where it is known to pollinate it host" / "where widespread host-pollination has been recorded".
- 15. "Trees can live to 100 years or more in age". The "in age" is implied.
- 16. "At least 14 species have been recorded, of which four—two each belonging to the genera Sycoscapter and Philotrypesis—are common while others are rare" -> "At least fourteen species have been recorded: ten are rare, while the others — two each belonging to the genera Sycoscapter and Philotrypesis — are common". Again, you're not being consistent re: 14 + four / two.
- 17. I don't follow this: "The community of wasps inside the syconium is made up mostly of pollinator wasps with much smaller numbers of these other species"
- 18. RE: "The parasitic wasps are around the same size as the pollinators and belong mainly to the genera Sycoscapter and Philotrypesis". You've just told me that 14 (or fourteen) species of non-pollinator wasps inhabit the syconium. You've said the most common of these parasitic, non-pollinators belong to the genera Sycoscapter and Philotrypesis. Are you not repeating yourself, then, by saying these wasps "belong mainly to the genera Sycoscapter and Philotrypesis"?
- 19. I think this whole section Other life in the syconia needs tweaking. Begin by saying the community consists primarily of pollinators; describe how they develop deep inside the syconium; introduce the 14 parasitic, non-pollinators; state that 4 of these non-pollinators are relatively common while the others are quite rare; discuss in-fighting between the 4 common parasite species; mention that all parasites develop close to the wall of the syconium (away from the pollinators); conclude with a discussion of how genera of the less common non-pollinators induce galls.
- 20. "suited for use as a houseplant in low, medium or brightly lit indoor spaces". Is the word "indoor" redundant?
- 21. Checked ref #44. You say the tree may reach 30m -- the source says it grows to over 30m. The source also says the best specimens are found in "dry rainforet". Is this covered by your text: "F. rubiginosa is found in rainforest, rainforest margins, gullies, riverbank habitat, vine thickets, and rocky hillsides"?
More from Singora 18:50, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
Let's play around with the Other life in the syconia section and see what we get.
As with many other Ficus species, the community of wasps inside the figs of F. rubiginosa is made up mostly of pollinator wasps. These develop deep inside the syconium, presumably protected there from parasites. Also present are much smaller numbers of other wasp species, which do not pollinate the fig. At least fourteen species have been recorded, of which four—two each belonging to the genera Sycoscapter and Philotrypesis—are common while others are rare. Investigation of F. rubiginosa syconia found that the fig seeds and parasitic wasps develop closer to the wall of the syconium. The wasps of the genera Sycoscapter and Philotrypesis are parasitic and are around the same size as the pollinator species. Their larvae are thought to feed on the larvae of the pollinator wasp. Male Sycoscapter and Philotrypesis wasps fight other males of the same species when they encounter each other in a F. rubiginosa fig. Several genera of uncommon larger wasp species enter the immature figs before other wasps and induce galls, which may impact on numbers of pollinator wasps in the fig later. An example of this is Pseudidarnes minerva, a metallic green wasp species.
Version 1
As with many other Ficus species, wasp communities inhabiting (residing in / found inside) the figs of F. rubiginosa comprise (are comprised of) mostly pollinator species. These develop deep inside the syconium, presumably protected from parasites. Also present are much smaller numbers of non-pollinator wasp species, at least fourteen of which have been recorded. Four of these species (two each belonging to the genera Sycoscapter and Philotrypesis) are common and similar in size to the pollinators. Their larvae are thought to feed on the larvae of pollinator wasps; males are known to fight. Several genera of larger, less uncommon wasp species enter immature figs before other wasps and induce galls, often leading to fewer pollinators burrowing into the fruit. One species known for this behaviour is the metallic green Pseudidarnes minerva.
Sorry -- gonna have to leave for this for now. I can't think properly. I can SUPPORT this, but am convinced the above para can be improved. It's too late now to do any more.
- yeah, working on really fiddly stuff when fatigued can have that effect. I spent a fair while re-reading the articles and staring at a screen last night before rewriting once. I'll think about it some more but need some uninterrupted time to concentrate... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:39, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Auburn Botanical Gardens Singora (talk) 17:50, 7 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Just noticed that your bonsai photo @ Auburn Botanical Gardens ought to be linked
- well-spotted/linked. 21:15, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
From the lead section, paragraph 1: "The leaves ... measure from ... 1.25 to 13.2 cm (1⁄2–5 1⁄4 in) wide." I wonder if the precision of "1.25 cm" is really justified. I suppose that this precision derives from the conversion of the imperial measurement 1/2 inch. Would it be reasonable to change the statement to "1.2 cm"? Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:13, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I went with the source - could also read it as a quarter of a centimetre.
From the lead section, paragraph 2: "It ... is used as a shade tree in parks and public spaces, and is well-suited for use as an indoor plant or in bonsai." There is a disconnect between its 30 m height/use as a shade tree and its suitability as an indoor plant. Are perhaps juvenile plants used indoors? Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:20, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- It's a pretty tough plant - just keep it in a pot and change the soil every few years and it is restricted to the size of the pot. So no, not particularly young plants. Would some sort of contrastive help the flow? I added "also" to highlight the different uses. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:02, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
From "Taxonomy", paragraph 1: "The specific epithet rubiginosa related to the rusty coloration of the undersides of the leaves. Indeed, rusty fig is an alternate common name." It would be good to include a photo that demonstrates this "rusty" colour of the underside, contrasted with the top. Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:25, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
From "Taxonomy", paragraph 3: "In a study published in 2008, Nina Rønsted and colleagues analysed the DNA sequences from the nuclear ribosomal internal and external transcribed spacers (ITS and ETS), and the glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate dehydrogenase (G3pdh) region." If these terms are not used later in the article, then there is no need to include abbreviations. Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:30, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
From "Description", paragraph 1: "F. rubiginosa is monoecious—both male and female flowers are found on the same plant, and in fact in the same fruit." The linked article has two definitions for "monoecious". It seems that Ficus rubiginosa could more specifically be described as bisexual/androgynous/hemaphroditic/synoecious/monoclinous? Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:41, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
From "Description", paragraph 2: "It is also confused with the small-leaved fig (F. obliqua), the syconia of which are smaller, measuring 4.3–11.9 mm long and 4.4–11.0 mm in diameter, compared with 7.4–17.3 mm long and 7.6–17.3 mm diameter for F. rubiginosa." Is precision to 0.1 mm really justified? Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:45, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In "Ecology", paragraph 1, why is Coxen's fig parrot specifically called out as endangered? Axl ¤ [Talk] 13:12, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- being the food source of a species that is endangered I feel is in and of itself important to note and this is the most succinct way of highlighting that fact Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:02, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- "being the food source of a species." F. rubiginosa appears to be a food source rather than the food source. Wikipedia's article about the parrot states that food availability is a major factor for the species, but is unclear how important F. rubiginosa specifically is in the parrot's diet. While loss of F. rubiginosa trees in a habitat would no doubt negatively impact the parrot's population, I would prefer to see a more definitive statement in a separate sentence with a specific reference. Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:54, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- being the food source of a species that is endangered I feel is in and of itself important to note and this is the most succinct way of highlighting that fact Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:02, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
From "Ecology", paragraph 1, should "spectacled flying-fox" really be hyphenated? Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:58, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Source review edit
- The article has sufficient citations, and everything is formatted properly.
- Minor nitpicks:
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 13:32, 14 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.