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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Eurasian rock pipit/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 04:32, 30 October 2016 [1].

Eurasian rock pipit edit

Nominator(s): Jimfbleak (talk) 14:18, 12 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This small brown inhabitant of European coasts makes up for its drab appearance by having a territorial behaviour otherwise known only from the African fiddler crab, and by benefiting from the nefarious activities of a castrating parasite Jimfbleak (talk) 14:18, 12 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from FunkMonk edit

Will make full review soon, but until then, I was thinking that this photo[2] of the egg could be shown? I think photos of eggs and juveniles should be shown in all bird articles, if available... And both sexes, if dimorphic. FunkMonk (talk) 21:42, 12 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

FunkMonk, thanks. I've added a cropped version of the image. In this species, the sexes are inseparable on sight Jimfbleak (talk) 05:55, 13 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Your crop looks much better. FunkMonk (talk) 23:20, 13 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The first formal description of this species was by English naturalist George Montagu." Give date? And add "naming" after description?
  • "John Latham was the first to give the rock pipit a scientific name, in 1790" What was this name?
  • Give authorities and dates for the subspecies names.
  • You are inconsistent in how you spell Faroe/Faeroe Islands (incidentally where my mother is from).
  • You could give a date for the old illustration.
  • You are inconsistent in whether you use the full or short name of the bird throughout the article.
  • "pale supercilium" Explain.
  • Date and author of the listed synonym? And what are the circumstances of that name?
  • "The rock pipit feeds mainly on invertebrates" and "Food items are usually invertebrates " Seems repetitive.
  • Is there a reason why you simply link to fiddler crab in the intro but a particular species in the article body?
FunkMonk, thanks for review. I think these edits address most of your queries. The synonym is attributed to Montague, because of the petrosus, but he didn't use it himself as far as I know. I assume it was adopted by authors who viewed it as a ssp of the water pipit A. spinoletta. I don't think, in any case, that we are normally required to do more than list synonyms with an attribution Jimfbleak (talk) 07:24, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I fixed the Faeroe/Faroe issue. As for supercilium, wouldn't "eye stripe" be more meaningful than "eyebrow"? Otherwise looks good, will support when you respond. FunkMonk (talk) 10:51, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for Faroe/Faero, I missed the point there, changed to eyestripe (I was in two minds which was better anyway) Jimfbleak (talk) 12:20, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
FunkMonk, many thanks Jimfbleak (talk) 05:58, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Dank edit

Support on prose per my standard disclaimer. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 17:10, 13 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dank, many thanks for copyedit and support Jimfbleak (talk) 18:28, 13 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:05, 15 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Nikkimaria, thanks for review Jimfbleak (talk) 05:58, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Aa77zz edit

  • The caption to the tax box picture is incorrect. The photo was taken on Heligoland in the North Sea. See the coords and even the file name. (An IP switch the photo without updating the caption on 26 Oct 2014‎). It is a beautiful photo.
  • I agree, good spot with the location, didn't even occur to me to check! Jimfbleak (talk) 06:27, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "of the Eurasian rock pipit until they were separated in 1988.[2]" The source , HBW, has 1998.
  • What happened in 1998 (or 1988)? A publication by the BOU? Explain.
I still don't understand where the "1998" mentioned by HBW comes from. There isn't a 1998 publication in their article's General Bibliography and I cannot find a relevant BOU publication. There is an article by Sangster et al on European birds in Ibis published in 2002 that recommends that the subspecies be promoted. (it isn't part of the official BOU series on British birds): Sangster, George; Knox, Alan G; Helbig, Andreas J; Parkin, David T (2002). "Taxonomic recommendations for European birds". Ibis. 144 (1): 153–159. doi:10.1046/j.0019-1019.2001.00026.x. See p.154. Available here. - Aa77zz (talk) 14:47, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Eurasian rock pipit is believed to be closely related to the meadow," I think it would be better to write: ""The Eurasian rock pipit is closely related..." The species form a well-defined phylogenetic clade - see Fig 1 Clade 3 in: Voelker, Gary (1999). "Molecular evolutionary relationships in the Avian genus Anthus (Pipits: Motacillidae)". Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution. 11 (1): 84–94. doi:10.1006/mpev.1998.0555. available from Researchgate. I think you should cite this article.

Subspecies

  • "Anthus petrosus kleinschmidti (Ernst Hartert, 1905)" - by convention the first name is usually omitted.
oops, Jimfbleak (talk) 06:27, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Anthus petrosus littoralis (Brehm, 1823)" - I don't think the brackets should be included. Brehm has Anthus littoralis see here - and the IOC, Zoonomen and Peters don't have brackets.

Breeding

  • Does a pair remain together from one year to the next?
  • Can't find anything either way on this. Given the short life span of small passerines, I don't know how ell studied this would be Jimfbleak (talk) 06:27, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Does the male help with incubating the eggs?
  • Does the male feed the female while she incubates the eggs?
  • Are the chicks naked when born?
  • Does female brood the chicks?
  • How long do the parents (or just the male) feed the young after fledging - if at all.
  • How and when do the young birds moult?
I'd fail to notice that my main sources hadn't mentioned moult! Jimfbleak (talk) 06:27, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • How and when do the adults moult?

I'll have another look tomorrow. Aa77zz (talk) 14:59, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Aa77zz, thanks for review, all done Jimfbleak (talk) 06:39, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support - other than not being able to find a BOU publication in 1998 mentioned above, I have no more suggestions. Well done. - Aa77zz (talk) 14:47, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Aa77zz, many thanks, I'll try to track down the errant article Jimfbleak (talk) 15:07, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Edwininlondon edit

With the caveat that I know virtually nothing of biology, I think this is a fine article, with clear prose. Very little to quibble with.

  • Anthus petrosus littoralis Brehm, 1823 --> to be consistent with the others: Anthus petrosus littoralis (Brehm, 1823)
  • Actually started with brackets until another reviewer pointed out that they are incorrect. The convention is that that brackets are used only if the current form differs from the original (eg, Montague used Alauda petrosus), but Brehm's binomial is unchanged. I've added a hidden comment to say it's correct as is. Jimfbleak (talk) 06:04, 21 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • body and some wing covert feathers giving them an appearance very like adults --> maybe a comma after feathers?
  • In early spring, late January-early March --> January in spring?
  • For example, the Staatliches Museum für Tierkunde Dresden has but a single specimen, a male shot at Dresden in 1894 --> It took me a while to establish why I found this odd, so it's subtle, but I think the order should be "For example, a male shot at Dresden in 1894, now in the collection of the local Staatliches Museum für Tierkunde
  • done, also used English name of the museum Jimfbleak (talk) 06:04, 21 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • possibly link seaweed
  • possibly a full stop after the footnote
  • the External links section seems empty. So remove?
  • London, United Kingdom: Christopher Helm --> I think the United Kingdom is not needed, as you have on the next reference
  • Christopher M. --> inconsistent with the other initials. I prefer M. over M actually.
  • Made consistent. Full stops (and spaces) are a matter of personal preference, so anything from Bloggs, JB to Bloggs J. B. are acceptable, although, as you say, there must be consistency. In general, Americans punctuate more heavily than Brits Jimfbleak (talk) 06:04, 21 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I shall do a spot check of references later. Edwininlondon (talk) 19:24, 20 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Edwininlondon, many thanks for review, I hope I've addressed your concerns Jimfbleak (talk) 06:04, 21 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes all addressed. I just did a spot check of the sources:

  • Jobling, James A. (2010)
  • Williamson, Kenneth (1965)
  • "Distribution of British fleas: Rock pipit"
  • Detto, Tanya; Jennions, Michael D; Backwell, Patricia R Y (2010)

They all check out. I support. Edwininlondon (talk) 19:51, 21 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Edwininlondon, thanks for the source check and your support, Jimfbleak (talk) 05:45, 22 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Closing comment edit

This has not been open terribly long but the very positive reviews in the first week or so, and lack of any further commentary in the past week, gives me confidence to promote. One thing, Jim, you use "similar" three times in two sentences in the first para, so perhaps one or two of those could be rethought to avoid the repetition. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 04:31, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ian Rose, thanks. As it happens, I'm going to Lisbon for a few days, and probably won't be able to edit, so the timing is perfect. I've lost two "similar"s, good spot Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:33, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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