Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Eastern brown snake/archive1
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 1 June 2019 [1].
Eastern brown snake edit
This article is about a badass snake that is considered the world's second most venomous snake...except that it isn't...except that it sort of is. The ranking was based on a highly potent neurotoxin isolated from the venom...except that in people it has almost no neurotoxic effects...however, it is responsible for most deaths from snakebite in Australia due to the severe damage it does to the human circulatory system. Anyway, have a read and let me know what to fix. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:23, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
Comments from JM edit
Only have a few minutes, so won't get far.
- "First described by André Marie Constant Duméril in 1854, the adult eastern brown snake" A little jarring: "the adult eastern brown snake" was "first described"...
- "cardiovascular system—coagulopathy, haemorrhage, cardiovascular collapse and cardiac arrest. One of the main components of the venom is the prothrombinase complex pseutarin-C" A little technical for the lead; perhaps you could introduce some wikilinks?
- "gave it the name Diemenia textilis in 1896" This is presumably explicitly "resurrecting" Duméril's name? Perhaps worth mentioning?
- Not quite. He just recognised it was the oldest valid name, as evidenced by having it at the top of the list of synonyms. Hence added this acknowledgement, with link to Principle of Priority Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:27, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
- "and reinforced by American herpetologist" Gramatically, it's not clear what was reinforced. "and Worrell's claim was bolstered by American herpetologist" or something, perhaps?
- Perhaps Pseudonaja ohnoi should be in the taxobox? Same with the rejected subspecies?
- "The Dharawal and Awabakal held ceremonies for the eastern brown snake" I'd definitely like to hear more!
Ok, got to dash. Will hopefully be back! Josh Milburn (talk) 16:34, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
Back for a few more minutes... Sorry for the bittiness...
- Any sexual dimorphism?
- Could you perhaps explain what "divided" means in the context of scales?
- It is mentioned under anal scale but added footnote Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:15, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
- "and arid scrublands and farmland, as well as more arid areas that are intermittently flooded" More arid than arid? I'm not saying you're wrong, just wondering if it says what you meant it to.
- " engage in 'ritual combat' with" Why the 'single quotes'?
- What do the eggs look like? Just little white orbs?
- Should you provide Fahrenheit conversions for the temperatures?
- File:Eastern Brown Snake eating an Eastern Blue tongue. (8235988337).jpg Could we crop out or clone out the watermark?
Stopping again! Josh Milburn (talk) 17:07, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
More:
- This may sound silly, but you don't actually mention that the venom is used for hunting. Or is it not?
- "the inland taipan of central" Specific name? You generally provide one, but not always.
- "brown snakes accounted for 41% of identified snakebite victims" Were responsible for (or similar) I think - this reads like they were the ones bitten!
- Snakes of Medical Importance or snakes of medical importance?
- "a third of cases develop serious systemic envenoming including hypotension and collapse, thrombotic microangiopathy, severe haemorrhage, and cardiac arrest" Wikilinks, perhaps? And next few sentences/paragraphs. I appreciate that this section has to be fairly technical, but wikilinks can help.
- "Mirtschin and colleagues found that Queensland eastern brown snakes produced over triple the average amount of venom (11 mg vs 3 mg) than those from South Australia.[61] Worrell reported" Full names, perhaps?
- Some pictures in the venom section might be good. A picture of a bite would work, or chemical structures, or something?
Hope that's useful. Josh Milburn (talk) 16:04, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Support on prose. This reads very well, and is no doubt a valuable resource for anyone wanting to learn about the snake. I'd really like to hear more about cultural significance, and perhaps about human/snake interactions... I'm guessing that people kill them, for example? Josh Milburn (talk) 10:58, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
- Yeah I'd like some more cultural significance - and if I can find I will add. Regarding their status, most Australians are not too good at distinguishing species and there are loads of dangerous ones. These are not hated any more or less than other species really. And thx for support :) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:22, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
Comments by AhmadLX edit
- "German-British zoologist Albert Günther described Demansia annulata in 1858." Maybe described it/eastern brwon snake as Demansia annulata ?
- Günther or Gunther? I see both.
- "Italian naturalist Giorgio Jan named Pseudoelaps sordellii and Pseudoelaps kubingii in 1859." is unclear. Are these different species, different looking specimens of eastern brown snake?
- different specimens as different taxa that turned out to be this species. Thing is, it can be quite variable in appearance (particularly young and mature snakes) and covers a wide range. Will see if I can make this clearer Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:52, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
- Alright, then it should be mentioned. Currently it seems as if they are different species. In my opinion, one general statement describing the situation should be added at the beginning of the paragraph. Something like "Due to differences in appearance, different specimens of Eastern Brown Snake were categorized as different species in the early nineteenth century."
- different specimens as different taxa that turned out to be this species. Thing is, it can be quite variable in appearance (particularly young and mature snakes) and covers a wide range. Will see if I can make this clearer Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:52, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
- Correct me if wrong, I am no expert in biology, but "described as ABC" gives impression that some species ABC already existed and specimens of EBS were wrongly associated with it. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:08, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
- Maybe I'm a bit dumb, so can't understand what does this mean: "Snake clutches in colder areas often have more banded than unbanded young snakes."
- more of the offspring have a banded coloration Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:30, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
- Contrast doesn't seem to be clear: more banded vs. unbanded. I can't access the source, based on your description I think a formulation like "In colder areas, newly hatched snakes are more heavily banded than young snakes" would be easier to understand.
- more of the offspring have a banded coloration Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:30, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
- Any reason for one-line para in Distribution and habitat?
- Why not °C?
- Any info on longevity in the wild?
- "...carpet python (Morelia spilota), have also been eaten." perhaps juveniles?
- "The bearded dragon is possibly resistant to the effects of the venom." Does this mean they are not on the menu? or?AhmadLX-)¯\_(ツ)_/¯) 12:45, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
I am supporting. AhmadLX-)¯\_(ツ)_/¯) 15:35, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
SC edit
- Lead
- "The adult eastern brown snake is a slender snake up to 2 m (7 ft) long with": snake – snake
- Tax
- We have both "Gunther" and "Günther"
- "for lack of rigour": I would probably phrase as "for a lack of rigour", but if that doesn't look right in AusEng, please ignore
- "number of diploid chromosomes at 38, those of the other species": looks a little like a comma splice – a semi colon may work better
- Link for monotypic?
- "The species commonly called" -> "The species is commonly called"
- Reproduction
- At the end of Behaviour you say "cool days in September and October risked running into courting male snakes", and the next sentence—in Reproduction—you say "snakes mate from October onwards". It may be worth smoothing the discrepancy out a bit
- Venom
- "pre- and post synaptic" -> "pre- and post-synaptic" (with the hyphen)?
- "presynaptic" and "posstynaptic": 1. "posstynaptic" is a spelling mistake; 2. are this meant to be hyphenated or as one word
- Refs
- You have dates in the "30 October 2015" format and "January 11, 2014" format (the latter at FN 52)
- You have the rage ranges in the "pp. 224–26" format, while the MoS now says it should be "pp. 224–226". It's pointless nonsense and I'll leave it to you to decide whether you need to bother or not.
That's it: all very minor fare and I look forward to supporting shortly. Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 18:42, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
- Support - subject to my cop-out for being a subject ignoramus. Nicely written, covers everything I would expect it to and meets the FA criteria as far as prose is concerned. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 07:21, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
- Image review - as this already has three reviews, I'll give an image review, but maybe continue with a full review if this stalls. Sources and licences look good, but I have some comments on image use. FunkMonk (talk) 06:13, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
- You write the juveniles can be reticulated. Why not show it? We have this photo:[2]
- You show a snake wrestling with a lizard, but why not use this photo from the same series, which is closer to them?[3] I see the snake's head is shown better in the image you use, but maybe crop it then, which would also get rid of the watermark.
- This sign, if really free, could be nice under Venom:[4]
- The author Frederick McCoy circulated it in 1877 as an educational poster, so yes it is free and added Cas Liber (talk · contribs)
- Why is the taxobox image's caption downsized? Not exactly easy on the eye.
- If you want to collapse the long synonym list to save space, you can do as in for example red rail.
Sources review edit
- No spotchecks carried out
- All links to sources are working
- Formats
- Page ranges: In his general review, SchroCat indicated the MoS requirement that page ranges should be given in full, e.g. as 149–150 not 149–50. It's a very minor issue but nonetheless, probably worth complying.
- done. I've done two digits for years but failed to find the supporting guidline. Not a big deal. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:12, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
- Ref 3: publisher details missing
- Ref 22: publisher details missing
- Ref 30: "South Australian Museum" should not be italicised
- for some reason, using the "work" or "website" field in "cite web" format does this. Not sure what to do about it. Open to suggestions Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:12, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
- Ref 31: "Australian Reptile Online Database" should not be italicised
- Cited texts: The ISBN format of Greer is inconsistent.
- Quality and reliability: Ref 21 is a self-published source. What makes this qualify as a high quality reliable source?
Subject to the above, the sources look to be of the appropriate standards of quality and reliability per the FA criteria. Brianboulton (talk) 11:45, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 10:57, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.