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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Doom (2016 video game)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 4 February 2024 [1].

Doom (2016 video game)

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Nominator(s): –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 03:14, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a universally acclaimed reboot of one of the most legendary game franchises ever, and is itself hailed as one of the best games ever. This is also my comeback to FAC after many months' absence. DOOM, and yours truly, are glad to be back. Rip and tear, comrades, until is done. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 03:14, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from NegativeMP1

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Haha, hell yeah. Absolutely awesome that you were actually able to pull this off, I'll take a look at this soon. λ NegativeMP1 07:36, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

I'll do this section by section.

  • "The game also supports an online multiplayer component" I think this would read better if you said something on the lines of the game having online multiplayer.
  • "It was the second best-selling video game in North America and the UK a few weeks after its release" Did it only become the best selling game in those regions after a few weeks, or did it stay the best selling game in those regions for a few weeks?

Gameplay

  • This might sound weird, but I think you have to have a citation that the game is a first-person shooter. I mean, it obviously is, but you still have to source it.
  • "such as the chainsaw and BFG 9000" → "such as a chainsaw and the BFG 9000"
  • "As in the original games, weapons do not need to reload, but can also be augmented with unlocked weapon mods purchased during the campaign." → "As in the original games, weapons do not need to be reloaded, but can be augmented with unlocked weapon mods purchased during the campaign."

Plot

  • I don't think we include plot details that aren't specifically stated in the game. A note specifying the year based on Doom Eternal's lore, however, I believe is acceptable.
    • Tweaked.
  • Other than that this section seems fine.

Development

  • Chronology issues are present here, maybe move the first sentence to after "which had 19 employees at the time of Doom 3's release, struggled to simultaneously develop Rage and Doom 4".
  • I think there's enough relevance to criticism of the Doom 4 prototype to mention that it ended up getting nicknames "Call of DOOM". It's in the sources, too. Maybe something on the lines of "and scripted cinematics; some fans and developers labeled the game as Call of DOOM.[35]"
  • Rest of it seems fine.

Release and marketing

Reception

  • No issues here.

Sequel

  • I recommend searching to see if there's material for some sort of a "Legacy" section since Doom 2016 has a strong relation with the boomer shooter trend.

And that's basically everything I was able to find. Overall a solid article nonetheless. λ NegativeMP1 19:55, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alright that's about everything. Disappointed that there wasn't more boomer shooter info, but I support this candidate. λ NegativeMP1 04:11, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thebiguglyalien (Support)

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One of my favorites! I just finished replaying this one a few months ago. I'll have a review in the next few days. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:44, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Or I'll just do it now:

Lead

  • "the first major installment in the Doom series since 2004's Doom 3" – This might be a good time to add that it's a reboot or that it's the first entry in the rebooted series.
    • Ahhh, that should have occurred to me before! Done now. —Vami
  • "that have been unleashed by the Union Aerospace Corporation within their energy-mining facility on Mars" – This seems like the reader is supposed to know what the UAC is. Maybe just "unleashed in an energy-mining facility on Mars".
    • Done. —Vami
  • "with reviewers crediting the game for recapturing the spirit of the classic Doom games and first-person shooters of the 1990s" – I only see one reviewer expressing this idea in the body.
    • Axed. —Vami

Gameplay

  • "Doom is a first-person shooter." – Is this all that can be said about what type of game it is? This might be a good place to introduce the idea that it replicates the gameplay of Doom (1993 video game).
    • I do in #Development; following the logic of MOS:VG: "Write for a general audience. Assume that the reader has heard of a video game but has never played one." Thus, I cannot assume they know of/about the original Doom games. —Vami
  • "with unlocked weapon mods purchased during the campaign" – The word "purchased" could be read as microtransactions.
    • Good point. Changed. —Vami
  • "Throughout the campaign are easter egg references to... and Doom and Doom II" – Separating the first two Doom games like this makes it read awkwardly, especially since Doom 3 is listed up front.
    • Changed to "and the original Doom games". —Vami
  • "player-versus-player multiplayer" is redundant.
    • Removed. —Vami
  • "some of which are exclusive to the multiplayer" – Any more information about this? Is there anything about how these weapons play that makes them suitable for one mode but not the other (I mostly ignored the multiplayer so I can't answer that)?
  • "that transform them into demons" – Should we clarify that these demons are the same ones you fight in the campaign?
  • "Doom includes a level creation tool called 'SnapMap'" – Are quotation marks necessary here?
    • Removed. —Vami
  • "with their own structure and game logic" – More detail about what this means would be helpful.
    • I've instead trimmed this out; rereading the sources, I oversold SnapMap a bit. —Vami

Plot

  • "Doom Eternal, is set in 2163, specifying a fourteen-year gap from the events of the 2016 game" – This is confusing. It would be better if there was a way to explicitly say "the game is set around 2149".
    • Done. —Vami
  • This summary makes it seem like Doomguy is loyally working for Hayden until the ending. Could a sentence be added about when Doomguy defies Hayden?
    • Oh, hm. Yeah, can't have that. Rewritten now. —Vami

Development

  • I don't like having "IP" written three times in the same sentence. Is it possible to reword this?
    • I only use IP here, so I've just deleted it. —Vami
  • It's unclear what "rolling reboot" means in this context.
    • Me neither, but that's ok because it's a quote from Stratton. —Vami
  • " id spoke with staff at Bethesda Game Studios because of their experience developing Fallout 3" – Maybe clarify how the development of Fallout 3 and Doom were similar.
    • Mmmmm cut instead. —Vami
  • "push forward combat" is defined twice, once in gameplay and once in development.
    • Cut from #Gameplay. —Vami
  • Footnote C could probably fit as part of the prose somewhere.
    • I tried to fit it in somewhere around the bit about the Glory Kill, but couldn't make it work. If you have suggestions, I'm all ears. —Vami
  • What is "classic weapon pose"?
    • Clarified. —Vami
  • "The soundtrack of Doom" – "Doom's soundtrack" is simpler.
    • Agreed. —Vami
  • "Gordon also included easter eggs in the soundtrack." – Maybe this should end with a colon or semicolon to connect the related sentences. Also, Easter should be capitalized.
    • Done. —Vami

Release and marketing

  • "and on Google Stadia on August 19, 2020" – This doesn't flow well grammatically with the other releases, since it follows an "except".
    • Oops. Corrected. —Vami
  • "which prompted comment but not criticism from several gaming outlets" – This seems slightly WP:ORish unless there are sources saying that there wasn't really any criticism.
  • "and released a non-VR demo of the first level" – I would move this up before VR is mentioned. Having to specify that it's a "non-VR demo" is confusing.
    • Cut instead. —Vami
  • What's the difference between the 2016 Doom VR versus Doom VFR? (also "Doom VFR" has two spaces)
    • VFR is a spinoff; clarified now (and removed the double space). —Vami
  • It's confusing having info about the trailers and testing come after the release dates.
    • I disagree and don't think there's anywhere better to put that content. Previous versions of the article had a very muddled #Release and marketing and I would like to avoid that. —Vami
  • If an image of the original box art is available, I think there's a non-free use argument that it would benefit the article to be able to compare the two.

Reception

  • "second best in the UK behind Uncharted 4" and then "second best in the US behind Uncharted 4" feels a little repetitive, even if they're technically using different measurements.
  • The sentences about PC sales could be combined so they flow better.
    • Done. —Vami

Sequel

  • This section feels really bare. Is there anything to be said about how Doom 2016 led to Doom Eternal, or what aspects were retained/changed?
    • Let me start working on that article since I was intending to anyway. I've seen a couple articles in which id talks about the challenges of following up DOOM. I'll ping you when I have an update about this. —Vami
      • Done. —Vami

References

  • Footnote A is uncited.
    • Fixed. —Vami
  • Does Screen Rant meet FA's expectation of high quality sources? I'm asking for myself as much as anything because I hope to use it in an FAC soon.

Vami IV, ping me if these are all addressed or if you have any questions/comments. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 00:23, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A few more thoughts:

I think that should be it. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:45, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 07:15, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support promotion. All of my concerns have been addressed. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 03:08, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source and image review

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I am a bit uneasy about the number of non-free images here. How many screenshots are needed to significantly expand the understanding of the article topic. File:Screenshot for Doom 2016.jpg and File:A screenshot of the canned Doom 4.jpg have a pretty basic use rationale, too. With File:Doom 2016 reversible cover.jpeg it's important to remember that notability does not automatically convey WP:NFCC#8 compliance; the article isn't about the Twitter vote after all. Source-wise, I presume that Makedonski, Brett is a reputable source? It seems we are mostly using videogame websites and magazines, some with archived URLs and some without. AnandTech seems OKish. The Tech Report is considered a so-so source. What makes CamelWorks reliable? I qualify that this isn't a topic I have deep knowledge about and have to rely heavily on Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Sources. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:44, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have no problem removing the Doom 4 screenshot or the alternative cover, but it's customary for video game articles to have a screenshot for the purposes of illustrating the gameplay. All the sources except for the YouTube interviews I pulled from WP:VG's RS search engine; the YouTube interviews (like the CamelWorks one) I used because they are interviews. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 13:00, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One screenshot is OK. With multiple, it becomes questionable however. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:45, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Doom 4 screenshot removed. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 01:07, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jo-Jo Eumerus: Update? –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 09:02, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I keep forgetting to reply to things. Just because something is an interview does not automatically make it a reliable source; do the interviewers frequently make interviews, and do they have a reputation for it? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:19, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have no idea and I don't think it matters; it's a WP:PRIMARY of Gordon saying, with timestamp for verification, that it took 18 months to write the music for this game. I can delete it if you still object, but my perspective is that the usage of this source for this purpose is fine. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 02:42, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have decided to cut the source and relevant sentence. Re-reading WP:PRIMARY makes me doubt my earlier position; the only thing CamelWorks has a reputation is needlessly long videos on video game lore. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 03:10, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seems like this passes then, with the caveat about sources I mentioned before. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:56, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport from the Night Watch

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As promised, I will try to get some comments in by Sunday or earlier. I also have an open FAC for Shovel Knight: Specter of Torment, and would appreciate any comments, but no worries if you are unavailable or busy. The Night Watch (talk) 15:41, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here are my first few comments:
  • "Mick Gordon composed the music for the game, with contributions by Richard Devine." You could remove 'for the game' to tighten the prose.
  • You don't need the word "also" in the next sentence.
  • In Gameplay "the player wields an arsenal of weapons inspired by those of Doom and Doom II, such as the chainsaw and BFG 9000, against undead and demonic opponents also inspired by the original Doom games" replace inspired with "influenced"
  • "As in the original games, weapons do not need to be reloaded. Weapons can also be augmented with weapon mods obtained during the campaign." How about: "Weapons do not need to be reloaded, and can also be augmented with various mods obtained during the campaign." It already says the term 'original game' in the preceding sentence and this differentiates the sentence structure a little more.
  • I'm not sure why you need to mention that "Gameplay consists of fast movement and frenetic combat" and then reiterate that statement with "Doom's combat encourages movement and aggression". Keeping both sentences reads a little redundant so I would suggest removing one.
  • "To replenish their health and ammunition, the player must either pick up items or kill enemies. To recover health, id added the "Glory Kill" mechanic…" This structure with "To" at the beginning is repetitive, and could be changed to improve readability.
  • "which can have multiple pathways and open areas for players to explore and find collectibles, secrets, and upgrades to their equipment within." Do some levels not have multiple pathways? If most of them do have these pathways, I would say "which typically have…" instead of "which can"
  • There are still some URLs that could be archived
The Night Watch (talk) 01:23, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
All suggestions enacted. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 06:40, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Second part of comments will be coming on Friday or earlier. The Night Watch (talk) 13:58, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Id, which had 19 employees at the time of Doom 3's release, struggled to simultaneously develop Rage and Doom 4." What about "The studio had 19 employees…"
  • Done. —Vami
  • "Id and Bethesda, feeling that Doom 4 was out of touch with the original Doom games, decided to restart development"
  • Chopped. —Vami
  • "that revealed that Doom 4 had been renamed to Doom and would be a series reboot"
  • Done. —Vami
  • "To direct Doom, id selected Stratton to be game director and hired Hugo Martin as creative director in August 2013."
  • Cut. —Vami
  • “Id also hired Tiago Sousa, head R&D graphics engineer at Crytek, to lead development of the id Tech 6 engine for Doom." How about "Tiago Sousa, head R&D graphics engineer at Crytek, led development of the id Tech 6 engine for the remake."
  • Suggestion adopted. —Vami
  • "In interviews about the development of Doom…" You could just cut that part entirely and lose none of the meaning. Just say "Stratton highlighted id's desire…"
  • Axed. —Vami
  • I don't think you need a wikilink to tone, most people already know what that is. Same thing with the wikilink for self-awareness.
  • Unlinked both. —Vami
  • "Id placed comparatively less emphasis on Doom's story" maybe "Id placed less emphasis on the story, which was written by…"
  • Done. —Vami
  • "Doom's multiplayer was developed in conjunction with Certain Affinity, but id replaced Certain Affinity to work on the multiplayer" change to "Doom's multiplayer was developed in collaboration with Certain Affinity, though id parted ways with them after launch to work on the Windows-version multiplayer…"
  • Suggestion adopted. —Vami
  • "Gordon designed several chains of effects units through which he passed sub-bass sine waves" you use "Gordon" in the previous sentence, you can say "He designed several…"
  • Done. —Vami
  • "For the main riff of the main menu theme" This is some odd phrasing here, could you try changing it up?
  • I do not follow. This is almost a quotation of Mick Gordon's GDC talk. —Vami
  • "The composition of Doom's soundtrack took place over 18 months", what about "The soundtrack was composed over 18 months"
  • Suggestion adopted. —Vami
  • Ref 89 should have engadget in uppercase
  • Done. —Vami
More comments forthcoming. The Night Watch (talk) 20:44, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I look forward to them. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 23:29, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Review copies of the game were held back until release day, which prompted comment but not criticism from several gaming outlets" You could just say "commentary from gaming outlets"
Pruned. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 23:04, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "PC Games criticized the weapons and weapon loadouts following the closed beta, but praised the mobility" Is the comma necessary?
That's all I have left. The Night Watch (talk) 22:10, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent! Support. The Night Watch (talk) 00:09, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Elias

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Elias here. I'm helping a FAC first-timer out with their (co)nomination, so a go at their own video game nom is heavily appreciated, though not obligatory of course. Will be right back with comments

Lead + misc

  • Per MOS:CONFORMTITLE, titles of video games should be italicised in source titles as well, and writing words like "DOOM" in all caps is generally not allowed
  • Not exactly sure if it messes up the clarity of the tenses, but "that have been" can be cut to tighten prose
    • Revised this sentence; I cut "that have been" as you said and also added mention of Hell here. —Vami
  • Some other words that can be cut:
    • "either" from "either pick up..."
      • Ripped. —Vami
    • "within" from "equipment within"
      • Torn. —Vami
    • "in order to" from "in order to solve"
      • Cut. —Vami
        • I still see an "in order to" in "In order to solve an energy crisis on Earth, the UAC" ? - E.
    • "a " from "to a mixed reception"
      • Axed. —Vami
        • also applies here "The VR adaptation received a mixed reception" - E.
    • "decided to" from "decided to use the original Doom games", "decided to use them to create..", and "decided to abandon team deathmatch"
      • Yea verily I hath lain them all low. —Vami
    • second "to" in "to use guitars or to write a metal score"
      • Removed. —Vami
    • Any of the to's in "to instead to make use of synthesizers"
      • Ah, oops. Second one is gone now. —Vami
        • Thanks. oh, additional thing, simplify this to "use synthesizers" - E.
    • "live" from "performed a short medley ... live"
      • Cut. —Vami
  • remove "by" in the "by the general public" ? though i understand If this suggestion's rejected because it could disrupt the mellifluousness of the paragraph

Gameplay

  • Any relevance for including Doom Slayer's fandom name in the article? I can't really imagine "Sans Undertale" being used in the Undertale article, for an analogy
    • Establishes continuity, but not pivotal. Cut. —Vami
  • Concur with the above comment about using "the" for "the chainsaw". Using this article makes sense only if the item was introduced beforehand
    • Suggestion adopted. —Vami
  • Don't know if "multiplayer" can act as a noun

Plot

  • I'm seeing lots of "demons" written in the first two sentence. Is there a way to rewrite them so that the repetition is minimised? You don't have to go super far and have only one instance
  • Nothing else of note

Development

  • Spell "id Software" in full before shortening it in subsequent mentions + link the first instance
    • Oops. Done. —Vami
  • Clarify that you're referring to the doom franchise in "license Doom"
    • Done. —Vami
  • "The studio had 19 employees at the time of Doom 3's release, struggled to simultaneously develop" Pretty sure there is a missing word before "struggled"
    • Rectified. —Vami
  • Some repetition issues with the use of "id"
    • Trimmed. —Vami
  • Move "by Noclip" to before "about the..." to avoid ambiguity with what they did (develop Doom or make the documentary)
    • Done. —Vami
  • "series of first person shooters" the hyphen is missing
    • Added. —Vami
  • "Doom 4 was to feature a f..." feels out of place in the place where it currently is. Perhaps merge it with the first sentence of the paragraph: "Doom 4 was to feature a story written... and was going to be set on Earth. It was described as a..."
    • Split the clause about the documentary into its own sentence to improve readability
      • Both done. —Vami
  • Change to "allegedly being mismanaged" for concision and parallelism
    • Done. —Vami
  • Link schizophrenia
    • Done. —Vami
  • "John Carmack, id's co-founder" --> "co-founder John Carmack"
    • Done. —Vami
  • "On July 11, 2022, Noclip released footage of Doom 4's gameplay as well as material from early in Doom's development" unless the article specifies the content and said content tells us a substantial lot about the development, i am unsure about including this here.
    • Deleted. —Vami
  • "Id" is capitalized
    • My eyes are glassing over at this point. Where are you referring to? —Vami
      • In the article for id Software, the word "id" is written in lowercase even in sentences where it is the first word - E.
  • "incentive" should be "incentivize"
    • Fixed. —Vami
  • The bits about Doom's story can be split into its own paragraph since it tackles a different topic from the previous sentences in the paragraph
    • Wound up doing this accidentally. —Vami
  • "to work on the Windows-version multiplayer and introduced new features" => introduce (no d) new features (?)
    • Done. —Vami
  • "private matches, custom game settings and an enhanced cheat detection system" you use oxford commas in other lists in the article, so use one here as well
    • the two above comments have yet to receive replies - E.
    • Done. —Vami
  • You introduce Gordon's nationality but not Devine's. Be consistent
    • Done. —Vami
  • "over 18 months" shouldnt this be "in 18 months" ?

Release and marketing

  • "Doom was the first game in the franchise to be released without censorship in Germany." fits better after the first sentence of the paragraph IMO
    • Agreed. —Vami
  • ""Pinball FX 3. as well as" self-explanatory
    • Oops. —Vami
  • "drew applause" feels like a weird phrase tonally for an encyclopedia
    • Changed to "which was simultaneously applauded and criticized for its graphic violence". —Vami
  • Add a comma after "three of which had to be purchased"

Reception

Sequel

  • Got no nit to pick here

I think that's all. Sorry for the huge wall of text. Hope my comments are of help. ‍ ‍ Elias 🌊 ‍ ‍ 💬 "Will you call me?"
📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?" 12:03, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's a rare set of FAC comments that causes me to tear my nomination apart to make it better. Bravo, and thank you. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 11:30, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Your Power: All done. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 00:35, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Vami_IV: thank you! this is a relief to hear. i often worry that my reviews might come across as too excessive and nitpicky, so im glad i was of substantial help here. some things still remain to be addressed; check above. i will be happy to support once those are taken care of :) ‍ ‍ Elias 🌊 ‍ ‍ 💬 "Will you call me?"
📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?" 00:09, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Your Power: Oh, oops. Addressed now. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 01:05, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Vami_IV: this is more my bad, but there are many more to go. i have stricken all the addressed comments for ease of navigation ‍ ‍ Elias 🌊 ‍ ‍ 💬 "Will you call me?"
📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?" 05:25, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Done. –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 10:09, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you so much @Vami IV! I am super, super sorry this review took a while. With that, im more than pleased to give my support. saw your project about simon bolivar as mentioned on discord a while back btw; congrats on taking the article to GA :) ‍ ‍ Elias 🌊 ‍ ‍ 💬 "Will you call me?"
📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?" 03:46, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
aaaaa thank you so much! –♠Vamí_IV†♠ 05:44, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Drive-by comments

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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