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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Djaoeh Dimata/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 10:01, 3 August 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Djaoeh Dimata edit

Djaoeh Dimata (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s):  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:36, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because I'm pretty sure it's ready. Unlike our previous Indies film FAs, this one had absolutely no involvement from Roekiah (who had been three years in the grave when this was released) or Kartolo. Djaoeh Dimata was the first domestic feature film released in the Indonesian archipelago in five years, following the Japanese occupation and first few years of the Indonesian National Revolution. As such (and surprisingly to me) it got decent coverage in Dutch newspapers, allowing this article to go into further detail than any other sources I've found. After a GA review from Jimfbleak and a PR from Cassianto, SchroCat, Sarastro1, and Wehwalt, I think the prose should be quite shining. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:36, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Images are both fine, copyright-wise. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:46, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support and minor comment. I did the GA review, and I can't see any new issues. I just wonder in the first line of Plot if "is" is more natural than "rendered"? Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:55, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support – Per resolved comments at peer review. I believe this article to be well referenced, comprehensive and with an excellent level of prose. -- CassiantoTalk 15:46, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per my comments at the peer review.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:06, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • And, as always, thanks for your tireless efforts at PR (and writing). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:30, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support: I reviewed at the PR and my very minor issues were addressed there. Another good piece of work. Sarastro1 (talk) 18:48, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support: Another peer reviewer who came away very happy after reading another excellent article. Good work! - SchroCat (talk) 21:41, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks, both of you. Always glad for your feedback. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:18, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - a nice article about an interesting topic, just some minor issues and questions:

  • lead "... cost [almost] 130,000 gulden." => almost (lead) or approximately (main text)?
  • Plot => I am usually all for brief plots, but this section seems rather short. 1-2 more sentences would help to add some more flow to the plot's narrative. Also Djauhari Effendi's role could be introduced (see below).
  • Not in sources (none of the contemporary sources give more). The film cannot be consulted as, even though a copy survives at Sinematek, it is 1) not in wide circulation (not on Youtube like Darah dan Doa, for instance, and rereleases of early Indonesian films are few and far between [the earliest I've seen are from around 1970]) and 2) likely in terrible condition (if we look at other films from around this period, Srigala Item had to be excised because of rot and Lewat Djam Malam took $200,000 of restoration to bring it back to viewable condition [and even then there was still damage that could not be fixed). I don't have any secondary sources which state explicitly what condition Djaoeh Dimata is in, though I could call Sinematek if you want. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:11, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Production "...the Dutch cinematographer, A.A. Denninghoff-Stelling," => just checking, is the full name unknown? Should use full name, if possible.
  • No full name in any of my sources. This is, in itself, not unusual: G. Krugers and Flip Carli's first names seem to have been lost to history as well. Contemporary newspapers that I've read tended to not give the first name of Dutch people mentioned, just their initial(s) and family name. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:11, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...The film starred Ratna Asmara [(wife of Andjar)], ..." => the statement doesn't mention the character roles for the other actors, why only for Ratna Asmara? (it's all in the plot anyway, except the last one).
  • That's not her character: she was married to Andjar, though Asmara seems to have been a shared stage name rather than a family name. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:11, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Duh, brain fart - all those strange names confuse me. GermanJoe (talk) 12:17, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The film starred Ratna Asmara (wife of Andjar), Ali Yugo, Iskandar Sucarno, and Djauhari Effendi," => can Djauhari Effendi's role be mentioned in the plot? All others are already included.
  • Not in sources. Djauhari could be removed rather than begging a question. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:11, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe a footnote? But fine either way, no biggie. GermanJoe (talk) 12:17, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...constructed by artistic director [H.M. Angin]" => full name available?
  • Hajopan Bajo Angin (confirmed here), seems the contemporary newspaper got the second initial wrong. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:11, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Principal photography was conducted on sets constructed by artistic director H.M. Angin in SFPC's studio in Jakarta. The company's equipment was of good quality, but conditions were detrimental to filming; a contemporary report notes that one take, done inside the studio, was ruined by the sound of a passing car." => source(s)? The next sentence has 3 split sources, so it's unclear which source fits here.
  • Rescued (actually has a still showing Andjar behind the camera too, but shame that's a Dutch newspaper). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:11, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Release "Djaoeh Dimata was released in late 1948, the first domestic feature film since Berdjoang. Despite this [large chronological gap] ..." => specify the gap (again) to clarify the context. Berdjoang is mentioned already, but 5 paragraphs earlier.
  • "film critic Usmar Ismail writes that it did not stray from the formula which had been introduced by Albert Balink in Terang Boelan (Full Moon; 1937) and since proven popular: songs, beautiful scenery and romance." => please double-check for close paraphrasing. Would a direct quote of the original thoughts be better here or is it a summary of a longer analysis?
  • No close paraphrasing, but upon rereading he doesn't seem to have explicitly pointed out said formula (though it's clear that he's looking at Terang Boelan's indirect influence through the Chinese film producers; have clarified . — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:11, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "A review in the Jakarta-based ..." => can you name the author instead to avoid 3 "review" in a row? Also the source link didn't work for me (dead?).
  • Anonymous, all of 'em. Source is working for me (1). Have tried a bit of rephrasing. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:11, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Andjar went on to direct two [further] films ..." - further is redundant with "went on".

Nothing really critical (and sorry, if some of those points may have come up during PR already). GermanJoe (talk) 11:22, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • One more in Release "One in the Jakarta-based Het Dagblad found the film to have many weak moments ... " - just checking (my Dutch is non-existant), any good examples of such moments or specific criticism mentioned in the source article? A bit vague at the moment. GermanJoe (talk) 10:38, 23 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article mentions unspecified technical difficulties as hurdles, but they don't specify and shortcomings (and camerawork is technical anyways). Added "unspecified". — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:44, 23 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support - thanks for the quick tweaks and explanations above. It's unfortunate, that nothing more is known about such movies, but the current article seems comprehensive and well-researched. GermanJoe (talk) 11:14, 23 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - Everything looks good, except the Mooney ref seems to state the wrong page number. It should be F1, for page one in the Financial section. --Laser brain (talk) 20:55, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Got that. It's actually spread across two pages (F1 and F2, apparently) so I've just added the F. Thanks for the source review. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:19, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • By the way, I'm in the habit of watching films whose articles I review. This seems hopeless though—I can't find a home video release of this film anywhere (at least in the English-language web). Is there any hope of seeing the film? --Laser brain (talk) 23:35, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have very little hope of that (even for myself) for reasons I've explained to GermanJoe above, although I can contact Sinematek Indonesia if really necessary. The earliest Indonesian film which is readily accessible is Darah dan Doa (1950), and that's mostly because a group uploaded the full film onto Youtube; there don't seem to be any VCD or DVD copies available. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:00, 31 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I also note that the only WorldCat entry for a fiction film with "Djaoeh Dimata" or its variant spellings as the title is a 1964 Malaysian film; any other video entries appear to be related to kroncong music. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:06, 31 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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